Teague vs Good/Elite PG's

[YoungRondo22]

Am I the only one who notices that when he goes up against PG's with bigger names than him he's nowhere to be found?With the exception of a few games here and there,Teague really doesnt play good when matched up with someone who is better than him.

[CrazyEye]

usually thats a sign that someone is better then you, you look bad compared to him.

But Teague isn't constant in general, on a good night he is great on a bad night he isnt ;) Imho he had also plenty of good games against good PG, and also a lot of bad games against average/below average starters.

[DJlaysitup]

Am I the only one who notices that when he goes up against PG's with bigger names than him he's nowhere to be found?With the exception of a few games here and there,Teague really doesnt play good when matched up with someone who is better than him.

No sir Mr. YR22...you are not at all the first to think that. Teague has always been that way...he is an "EGO" guy who matches himself against other PGs and when he is cooking he goes all-out to make the fool out of his opponent. He likes to "show out" (when he can) and is totally self-absorbed.When he is getting punked on a play or two he wilts like a flower after a frost. He has little or no understanding of the team game. Jeff Teague is a "me guy"....simple as that.He has no grit or determination to fight back when things aren't going his way. He has little understanding that if he is against a better PG and just does the best he can, his team can still win. Play his best defense.Nor does he likely care...it's all about Jeff Teague. He either wins his matchup or he quits on the team before he can be blamed... Edited March 8, 2014 by DJlaysitup

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Not truehttp://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/atlanta-hawks/players/jeff-teague/profile/14/1/14

[DJlaysitup]

Not truehttp://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/atlanta-hawks/players/jeff-teague/profile/14/1/14

Explain?...your stats have him winning - stat-wise...against Kobe? the stats are silly... Edited March 8, 2014 by DJlaysitup

[NJHAWK]

I think its been almost even. Teague has had his way with some of the better pg's in the league. He also has looked like crap especially during this losing streak. He is inconsistant, you just never know if your going to get the lion or the kitten.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I almost started a thread back a couple months ago stating the opposite.

My findings for that thread:

Stats of PG's vs. the Hawks D for the last month:

Losses in red, wins in green

11/27 @ Houston - Lin/Brooks: 7/13, 21 pts, 5 asts, 3 rebs, 3 TO, +21

11/29 vs. Dallas - Calderon: 5/11, 16 pts, 3 asts, 0 rebs, 1 TO, +8

11/30 @ Washington - Wall: 9/18, 26 pts, 12 asts, 6 rebs, 3 TO, +16

12/2 @ San Antonio - Parker: 7/11, 15 pts, 7 asts, 0 rebs, 4 TO, -4

12/4 vs. LA Clippers - Paul: 7/17, 19 pts, 11 asts, 3 rebs, 1 TO, -9

12/6 vs. Cleveland - Irving: 0/9, 0 pts, 4 asts, 4 rebs, 0 TO, -19

12/10 vs. OKC - Westbrook: 6/21, 14 pts, 11 asts, 9 rebs, 4 TO, +8

12/13 vs. Washington - Wall: 6/22, 13 pts, 11 asts, 4 rebs, 4 TO, -1

12/14 @ New York - Shumpert: 1/2, 3 pts, 2 asts, 6 rebs, 0 TO, +25

12/16 vs. LA Lakers - Johnson: 3/9, 6 pts, 1 asts, 4 rebs, 1 TO, -19

12/18 vs. Sacramento - Thomas: 20 pts, 10 asts, 2 rebs, 2 TO, -8

12/20 vs. Utah - Burke: 2 pts, 3 asts, 3 rebs, 1 TO, -17

12/23 @ Miami - 12 pts, 4 asts, 1 rebs, 5 TO, -4

12/26 @ Cleveland - 40 pts, 9 asts, 2 rebs, 6 TO, -9 (2OT game, Teague hit game winner)

Teague during this stretch:

77/180 (42.8%), 219 pts (15.6 ppg), 110 asts (7.9 apg), 39 reb (2.8 rpg), 53 TO (3.8 tpg), +12

I think Teague does well against top competition. Practically everyone of those stat lines for the opposing PG is under their average. I'd have to see what it was for January, but I'd bet they're about the same.

[Admin]

I think Teague does well against top competition.  Practically everyone of those stat lines for the opposing PG is under their average.  I'd have to see what it was for January, but I'd bet they're about the same.

 

I highly doubt it as December was far and away Teague's best month and January was far and away his worst.  He went from a +4.9 +/- in December to a -5.0 in January and I can't see any way that he had this same type of result in January. 

 

As to the topic I I've noticed this as well and it seems like Teague is a much better player against teams with defensively weak backcourts and/or lack of interior defense. Take a look at Jeff's ORtg sorted by best to worst and you can see he's 100 or above against 15 teams and 99 or below against 14 teams. For the most part his better games are against teams that aren't great while his worst games are against playoff caliber teams.

 

Value	ORtg
Philadelphia	132
Minnesota	129
Phoenix	126
Dallas	121
Sacramento	117
New York	116
Cleveland	114
Utah	114
Orlando	112
Toronto	110
San Antonio	109
Chicago	107
Charlotte	105
New Orleans	103
Boston	99
Detroit	98
Denver	96
LA Lakers	96
Miami	96
Oklahoma City	94
Indiana	89
LA Clippers	88
Golden State	87
Brooklyn	85
Washington	84
Memphis	81
Portland	78
Houston	72

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Explain?...your stats have him winning - stat-wise...against Kobe? the stats are silly...

Well if you remember, the Lakers had no PGs at one point. Nash was hurt. Blake was hurt. Farmar wasn't with the team. And Kendall Marshall wasn't with them either.

And Kobe played the point that game

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/boxscores/atlanta-hawks-vs-los-angeles-lakers/2013-12-16/14/1

So the stats are accurate.

And it will show tomorrow that he lost his matchup vs Chris Paul tonight.

[AHF]

Teague vs. Paul

Paul - 19.3 ppg, 48% FG%, 8.7 apg, 3.0 rpg, 2.9 spg

Teague - 10.4 ppg, 37% FG%, 6.0 apg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/bB4EI

Teague vs. Irving

Irving - 23.9 ppg, .533 FG%, 6.1 apg, 3.9 rpg, 2.3 spg

Teague - 19.0 ppg, .576 FG%, 7.1 apg, 1.7 rpg, 2.0 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/BviLU

Teague vs. Curry

Curry - 16.0 ppg, .456 FG%, 7.2 apg, 4.2 rpg, 1.7 spg

Teague - 7.8 ppg, .351 FG%, 4.4 apg, 1.9 rpg, 1.0 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/8kdDj

Teague vs. Rondo

Rondo - 11.8 ppg, .378 FG%, 10.8 apg, 6.4 rpg, 2.0 spg

Teague - 10.8 ppg, .521 FG%, 2.2 apg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/CoDP9

Teague vs. Lawson

Lawson - 16.9 ppg, .602 FG%, 6.5 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.8 spg

Teague - 8.0 ppg, .284 FG%, 5.0 apg, 2.6 rpg, 0.8 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/Bx0Ci

Teague vs. Chalmers

Chalmers - 10.6 ppg, .481 FG%, 4.1 apg, 2.6 rpg, 1.6 spg

Teague - 9.7 ppg, .424 FG%, 4.7 apg, 1.9 rpg, 1.3 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/3iUSk

[YoungRondo22]

Teague vs. PaulPaul - 19.3 ppg, 48% FG%, 8.7 apg, 3.0 rpg, 2.9 spgTeague - 10.4 ppg, 37% FG%, 6.0 apg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 spghttp://bkref.com/tiny/bB4EI Teague vs. IrvingIrving - 23.9 ppg, .533 FG%, 6.1 apg, 3.9 rpg, 2.3 spgTeague - 19.0 ppg, .576 FG%, 7.1 apg, 1.7 rpg, 2.0 spghttp://bkref.com/tiny/BviLU Teague vs. CurryCurry - 16.0 ppg, .456 FG%, 7.2 apg, 4.2 rpg, 1.7 spgTeague - 7.8 ppg, .351 FG%, 4.4 apg, 1.9 rpg, 1.0 spghttp://bkref.com/tiny/8kdDj Teague vs. RondoRondo - 11.8 ppg, .378 FG%, 10.8 apg, 6.4 rpg, 2.0 spgTeague - 10.8 ppg, .521 FG%, 2.2 apg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 spghttp://bkref.com/tiny/CoDP9 Teague vs. LawsonLawson - 16.9 ppg, .602 FG%, 6.5 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.8 spgTeague - 8.0 ppg, .284 FG%, 5.0 apg, 2.6 rpg, 0.8 spghttp://bkref.com/tiny/Bx0Ci Teague vs. ChalmersChalmers - 10.6 ppg, .481 FG%, 4.1 apg, 2.6 rpg, 1.6 spgTeague - 9.7 ppg, .424 FG%, 4.7 apg, 1.9 rpg, 1.3 spghttp://bkref.com/tiny/3iUSk

He really does struggle against the better Point Guards in the NBA

[AHF]

He really does struggle against the better Point Guards in the NBA

Lawson is the most damning. Guards like Paul and Deron at least have some games against him before he was getting major minutes but Lawson and Teague went back to back in the draft.

There are some guards that he looks very solid against. For example:

Teague vs. Damian Lilliard (only 3 games sample size)

Lilliard 15.3 ppg, .395 FG%, 4.0 apg, 3.3 rpg, 1.0 spg

Teague 14.7 ppg, .471 FG%, 6.0 apg, 2.0 rpg, 1.7 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/lDW5m

One thing that surprised me during this ad hoc comparison was how poor most of his rebounding and steals numbers were H2H.

[Diesel]

Teague vs. Paul

Paul - 19.3 ppg, 48% FG%, 8.7 apg, 3.0 rpg, 2.9 spg

Teague - 10.4 ppg, 37% FG%, 6.0 apg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/bB4EI

Teague vs. Irving

Irving - 23.9 ppg, .533 FG%, 6.1 apg, 3.9 rpg, 2.3 spg

Teague - 19.0 ppg, .576 FG%, 7.1 apg, 1.7 rpg, 2.0 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/BviLU

Teague vs. Curry

Curry - 16.0 ppg, .456 FG%, 7.2 apg, 4.2 rpg, 1.7 spg

Teague - 7.8 ppg, .351 FG%, 4.4 apg, 1.9 rpg, 1.0 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/8kdDj

Teague vs. Rondo

Rondo - 11.8 ppg, .378 FG%, 10.8 apg, 6.4 rpg, 2.0 spg

Teague - 10.8 ppg, .521 FG%, 2.2 apg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/CoDP9

Teague vs. Lawson

Lawson - 16.9 ppg, .602 FG%, 6.5 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.8 spg

Teague - 8.0 ppg, .284 FG%, 5.0 apg, 2.6 rpg, 0.8 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/Bx0Ci

Teague vs. Chalmers

Chalmers - 10.6 ppg, .481 FG%, 4.1 apg, 2.6 rpg, 1.6 spg

Teague - 9.7 ppg, .424 FG%, 4.7 apg, 1.9 rpg, 1.3 spg

http://bkref.com/tiny/3iUSk

I was impressed until I noticed that these were lifetime numbers.

It's no secret that Teague was not so good his first two-three years. Hell, he rode the bench and got spot minutes.

[Guest]

I was impressed until I noticed that these were lifetime numbers.

It's no secret that Teague was not so good his first two-three years. Hell, he rode the bench and got spot minutes.

I like the new avatar @Diesel, what made you think of that?

oh please say a coked up rage and then ramble on about "The World Is Yours" {/sarcasm}

[AHF]

I was impressed until I noticed that these were lifetime numbers.

It's no secret that Teague was not so good his first two-three years. Hell, he rode the bench and got spot minutes.

Which makes the comparison to Lawson even worse considering who Teague had to beat out to get more minutes and that he failed to do so.

If it helps, I don't think you looked at the numbers very carefully. Teague has 1 of 7 games where he didn't start against Paul. He has outscored Paul 0 out of 7 times.

Then you have the young guys who Teague has zero excuses about not being old enough since he is multiple years older:

Teague versus John Wall

Wall - 17.3 ppg, .401 FG%, 8.0 apg, 3.9 rpg, 1.4 spg

Teague - 11.1 ppg, .374 FG%, 4.6 apg, 2.0 rpg, 1.3 spg

Teague has outscored Wall 2 times (by 1 point each time). Wall has outscored Teague by 10 or more 3 times.

This is to be expected, though. Teague is an average PG and average players generally get outplayed by better ones. I suspect Al Horford doesn't compare well in his matchups with Love, Griffin, Dirk, etc. and I consider Al significantly more above average than Jeff.

[Diesel]

Which makes the comparison to Lawson even worse considering who Teague had to beat out to get more minutes and that he failed to do so.

If it helps, I don't think you looked at the numbers very carefully. Teague has 1 of 7 games where he didn't start against Paul. He has outscored Paul 0 out of 7 times.

Then you have the young guys who Teague has zero excuses about not being old enough since he is multiple years older:

Teague versus John Wall

Wall - 17.3 ppg, .401 FG%, 8.0 apg, 3.9 rpg, 1.4 spg

Teague - 11.1 ppg, .374 FG%, 4.6 apg, 2.0 rpg, 1.3 spg

Teague has outscored Wall 2 times (by 1 point each time). Wall has outscored Teague by 10 or more 3 times.

This is to be expected, though. Teague is an average PG and average players generally get outplayed by better ones. I suspect Al Horford doesn't compare well in his matchups with Love, Griffin, Dirk, etc. and I consider Al significantly more above average than Jeff.

I looked...

And even though has never outscored Paul, you can see a difference from 2009 to now. My point is that when you consider lifetime.. you lose something. There were some Lawson game where Lawson logged over 25 minutes and Teague Logged 6. You say it's Teague's fault. I say no sir. Teague can't control the whims of the coach. Sorry but Woody no goody was not going to bench Bibby to play Teague. Just like he wouldn't bench Lue to play Salim. Woody was a vets coach. Teague didn't get his shot until LD took over and Hinrich went down. After that moment, you see great strides in Teague's play. So, instead of you taking this as me completely denying your stats, why not go back and start the season after we played the Bulls in the playoffs. Those numbers would be a little more realistic because there wouldn't be a mpg bias.

[AHF]

I looked...

And even though has never outscored Paul, you can see a difference from 2009 to now. My point is that when you consider lifetime.. you lose something. There were some Lawson game where Lawson logged over 25 minutes and Teague Logged 6. You say it's Teague's fault. I say no sir. Teague can't control the whims of the coach. Sorry but Woody no goody was not going to bench Bibby to play Teague. Just like he wouldn't bench Lue to play Salim. Woody was a vets coach. Teague didn't get his shot until LD took over and Hinrich went down. After that moment, you see great strides in Teague's play. So, instead of you taking this as me completely denying your stats, why not go back and start the season after we played the Bulls in the playoffs. Those numbers would be a little more realistic because there wouldn't be a mpg bias.

Why don't I? One simple reason: I don't have any more time to devote to Teague's stats. Avg PG who is generally outplayed by the best PGs in the league isn't interesting enough to devote more time to looking at when Teague was outplayed by Paul by a lesser margin.

[Diesel]

Why don't I? One simple reason: I don't have any more time to devote to Teague's stats. Avg PG who is generally outplayed by the best PGs in the league isn't interesting enough to devote more time to looking at when Teague was outplayed by Paul by a lesser margin.

Well, that's just it. Say that you're not really interested in looking at Teague's production as a starter and would rather show Teague's minutes while on the bench + his numbers as a starter in comparison to guys who got the opportunity to log 25+ minutes from the start. That way, people won't confuse what you have posted as the concluding evidence.... Because it's not.. Moreover, how can we take any claim that you make that Teague is an "AVG PG" seriously if you're basing it on your faulty evidence?

It's just like looking at Paul George... Not saying that Teague is on George's level... but when you consider him statwise, he's a 15 ppg Player over his career. In fact... if we go by your way of doing it... Joe Johnson spanks Paul George.

Joe Johnson 11 5 6 11 36.4 6.9 15.2 .455 2.2 5.3 .414 1.8 1.9 .952 0.9 2.5 3.5 3.1 0.6 0.0 2.4 1.7 17.8

Paul George 11 6 5 10 32.2 5.4 12.5 .428 1.8 5.1 .357 2.2 2.5 .889 0.7 4.8 5.5 2.0 2.0 0.6 2.1 3.4 14.7

I'll stop there.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Diesel

[buckeye242424]

Well, that's just it. Say that you're not really interested in looking at Teague's production as a starter and would rather show Teague's minutes while on the bench + his numbers as a starter in comparison to guys who got the opportunity to log 25+ minutes from the start. That way, people won't confuse what you have posted as the concluding evidence.... Because it's not.. Moreover, how can we take any claim that you make that Teague is an "AVG PG" seriously if you're basing it on your faulty evidence?

It's just like looking at Paul George... Not saying that Teague is on George's level... but when you consider him statwise, he's a 15 ppg Player over his career. In fact... if we go by your way of doing it... Joe Johnson spanks Paul George.

Joe Johnson 11 5 6 11 36.4 6.9 15.2 .455 2.2 5.3 .414 1.8 1.9 .952 0.9 2.5 3.5 3.1 0.6 0.0 2.4 1.7 17.8

Paul George 11 6 5 10 32.2 5.4 12.5 .428 1.8 5.1 .357 2.2 2.5 .889 0.7 4.8 5.5 2.0 2.0 0.6 2.1 3.4 14.7

I'll stop there.

holy sh*t, you're back. Where you been dude?

[AHF]

Well, that's just it. Say that you're not really interested in looking at Teague's production as a starter and would rather show Teague's minutes while on the bench + his numbers as a starter in comparison to guys who got the opportunity to log 25+ minutes from the start. That way, people won't confuse what you have posted as the concluding evidence.... Because it's not.. Moreover, how can we take any claim that you make that Teague is an "AVG PG" seriously if you're basing it on your faulty evidence?

It's just like looking at Paul George... Not saying that Teague is on George's level... but when you consider him statwise, he's a 15 ppg Player over his career. In fact... if we go by your way of doing it... Joe Johnson spanks Paul George.

Joe Johnson 11 5 6 11 36.4 6.9 15.2 .455 2.2 5.3 .414 1.8 1.9 .952 0.9 2.5 3.5 3.1 0.6 0.0 2.4 1.7 17.8

Paul George 11 6 5 10 32.2 5.4 12.5 .428 1.8 5.1 .357 2.2 2.5 .889 0.7 4.8 5.5 2.0 2.0 0.6 2.1 3.4 14.7

I'll stop there.

I gave you starter stats for a number of these guys, though. There were likewise consistent. John Wall versus Teague and you are going to play the benchwarmer card?

Paul has continued to out-everything Teague whether early in his career or more recently.

Lawson owns Teague consistently whether Teague is a reserve or a starter, etc.

It isn't that I wouldn't read the numbers or discuss them but more that it takes time to pull them and I don't feel like the topic is interesting enough to warrant the time because I am still seeing mismatches in the few that I have examined. The ironic part is that you could just pull the numbers yourself but seem more interested in chastising me for not doing it than in pulling and discussing them.

I fully expect the raw numbers will look better for Teague as a starter since his raw numbers generally look better as a starter. I expect him to be outplayed by the elite PGs because his numbers generally are significantly less than elite. Why spend a ton of time digging matchup by matchup when I can see his season numbers as a starter and see they aren't elite? The only possibility that leaves is that he matches up particularly well against the best PGs and particularly poorly against bad PGs which leaves the wash that are his overall season numbers.

Regardless of position, most players struggle more against the best guys at their position. I don't particularly fault Teague for this because this is the way of competitive sports. Like I said earlier, I am sure that DMC struggles against elite SFs, Millsap struggles against elite PFs, etc. There may be matchups that are favorable, but as a trend that tends to be case for any non-elite player.

Edited March 11, 2014 by AHF