Who are we to judge Ferry and Bud?

[JTB]

On Ferry:

If you hate ferry because of Cleveland....that's not a good reason. Completely different franchise with a completely different culture. Ferry is trying to bring the spurs system to Atlanta and it's going to take some time. In Cleveland he was under pressure to make lebron happy...I don't care what anybody tells you, some stars run organizations when they aren't happy (lebron was one of them) and not gms!

More than likely ferry was pressured to make some kind of move to make lebron and owner Gilbert happy.

On Bud:

How are we going to judge a 17 year top assistant/right hand man of coach pop who had everything to do with Parker's all star development and the trade for Kwahi Leonard who will be the future franchise player of the spurs!

How do hawk fans say I know talent but dismiss the talent ferry and bud go out to bring to ATL?

We act like we have been around the NBA longer than these guys?

Point is:

I think hawk fans think they know talent and what fits the spurs like system better than the two guys we have in one that played in it and one who's coached it for 17 years!...17 years!....17 years!...hawksquawk do you realize how insane that is?!

That's like a nba fan going out to text winter (Phil Jackson's top assistant/right hand man)...and telling him that he doesn't know what players fit the triangle offense and he should listen to us instead!

That sh*t is crazy from you guys! Ferry and Bud knows talent! More importantly they know spurs talent that fit that particular system...it's not smart to dismiss these guys as if we know better!

[Guest]

It's a message board with opinions, like and dislikes - if you don't take it too serious it's good fun.

[benhillboy]

I haven't seen much criticism of Bud here or anywhere, with good reason.

The criticisms of Ferry aren't unwarranted, but I'm definitely a fan. I consider myself pretty knowledgable on matters of basketball, yet light years away from the level of knowledge they have acquired, so I roll with 95% of what they see fit to do. They come from arguably the most consistently competitive modern basketball operation other than the two flagships, who were poor to pathetic this past year. You're absolutely right, we're nobody to judge them.

[AHF]

I feel very good about judging Mike Woodson despite his 34 years of professional basketball and 18 years of coaching. Acting like these guys are above questioning is pretty silly, IMO.

By that rationale, Bud should just listen to Woodson because Woodson has twice the professional basketball experience. It is pretty obvious that Bud is much more qualified than Woody despite having half the experience with the NBA, though.

Fans are entitled to their opinion.

[hazer]

I feel very good about judging Mike Woodson despite his 34 years of professional basketball and 18 years of coaching. Acting like these guys are above questioning is pretty silly, IMO.

By that rationale, Bud should just listen to Woodson because Woodson has twice the professional basketball experience. It is pretty obvious that Bud is much more qualified than Woody despite having half the experience with the NBA, though.

Fans are entitled to their opinion.

False analogy. Bud's experience comes in the Spurs system, under Pop's wings. It's like dog years, 1 is 7.

[AHF]

Terrible rationalization.

Guess who Pop was an assistant under? The same Larry Brown who Woody coached under.

The mentor doesn't necessarily make the pupil.

[JTB]

Terrible rationalization.

Guess who Pop was an assistant under? The same Larry Brown who Woody coached under.

The mentor doesn't necessarily make the pupil.

But was woody under a system of 17 years of success?...No

Yeah it's easy to question woody, mike brown, Nate McMillan or any other heavy iso coach cause that BS game plan just doesn't work in the NBA.

But you can't question a guy like bud who has seen talent within his own organization develop into stars under a system ran flawlessly against the best of the best.

I guess I should have said that outside of coach pop, coach bud is next in line as far as knowing what kind of talent fits this spurs style of basketball and we should just hold judgement until atleast 3 years has passed.

[AHF]

I personally think it is too early to be critical of Bud based on the the transition with the system and the good early results, but saying that fans aren't entitled to have their own opinion is silly.

You can absolutely question things about the way Bud runs the team or how Ferry handles the front office.

The idea that Bud can't possibly draw up a terrible set play or screw up the substitution patterns at some point is just not realistic. If Bud chooses to sit Horford and Sap down the stretch of a tight game next year and play Scott and Antić instead and we lose because we can't secure key rebounds then he is absolutely open to fan criticism.

Personally, I am very happy with what I have seen from Bud but there isn't a coach that fans "can't question."

[JTB]

I personally think it is too early to be critical of Bud based on the the transition with the system and the good early results, but saying that fans aren't entitled to have their own opinion is silly.

You can absolutely question things about the way Bud runs the team or how Ferry handles the front office.

The idea that Bud can't possibly draw up a terrible set play or screw up the substitution patterns at some point is just not realistic. If Bud chooses to sit Horford and Sap down the stretch of a tight game next year and play Scott and Antić instead and we lose because we can't secure key rebounds then he is absolutely open to fan criticism.

Personally, I am very happy with what I have seen from Bud but there isn't a coach that fans "can't question."

Here we go...I made a mistake and worded this post wrong. Of course fans can have their own opinion nothing wrong with that but when you are a fan that criticize ferry and buds every move in a negative way that stops being an opinion that you have and more of a "I know more than the 17 year assistant coach that's been running this system for years"....to me opinions are when you throw out a free agent name you want the hawks to pickup or maybe a lineup change you think bud needs to do but many on hawksquawk criticize Bud and ferry for not knowing talent that fit this scheme, not trying to sign talent, not knowing what they are doing in the front office period and that is foolish to me no matter how you put it. Edited May 28, 2014 by JTB

[Admin]

Here we go...I made a mistake and worded this post wrong. Of course fans can have their own opinion nothing wrong with that but when you are a fan that criticize ferry and buds every move in a negative way that stops being an opinion that you have and more of a "I know more than the 17 year assistant coach that's been running this system for years"....to me opinions are when you throw out a free agent name you want the hawks to pickup or maybe a lineup change you think bud needs to do but many on hawksquawk criticize Bud and ferry for not knowing talent that fit this scheme, not trying to sign talent, not knowing what they are doing in the front office period and that is foolish to me no matter how you put it.

@JTB the bottom line is that if ANY of us actually knew how to scout talent, build a roster, etc. we wouldn't be on this site. We're all Monday morning QBs on here and anything posted is just opinion.

But I will say there isn't a single coach or GM who is beyond criticism. Not saying you believe that, just saying it's true. RC has made personnel mistakes and even Pop was roundly criticized for possibly costing SA the title last year in game 6 with his benching of TD towards the end of the game.

I think we've got a terrific GM and an even better young coach and I am EASILY the happiest I've ever been as a Hawks fan with this combo.

[JTB]

@JTB the bottom line is that if ANY of us actually knew how to scout talent, build a roster, etc. we wouldn't be on this site. We're all Monday morning QBs on here and anything posted is just opinion.

But I will say there isn't a single coach or GM who is beyond criticism. Not saying you believe that, just saying it's true. RC has made personnel mistakes and even Pop was roundly criticized for possibly costing SA the title last year in game 6 with his benching of TD towards the end of the game.

I think we've got a terrific GM and an even better young coach and I am EASILY the happiest I've ever been as a Hawks fan with this combo.

I guess it's easier for me to accept criticism of the gm and coaching staff after 3 years than it is after just one year.

[Guest]

I guess it's easier for me to accept criticism of the gm and coaching staff after 3 years than it is after just one year.

I believe there is a difference between a criticism and passing judgement. I will criticize Bud for his last second play calling understanding that he is a first time head coach.

[macdaddy]

In a vacuum some of us might could make better decisions than some of the ones coaches or gms make. But we get to do that totally unaware of the other 95% of things that are going into those decisions. Like it's easy to choose Chris Paul over Marvin Williams unless you've got a bunch of scouts telling you CP is too short and Marvin could be the next James Worthy or better and you've got owners desperate for a star.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

We're fans. It's not only our inalienable right to make unfair judgements on our GM and head coach and give them lofty expectations, but it's our duty. Ultimately, we're the ones that the entire organization has to appease; therefore if we want LeBron, then by god, Ferry better find a way to get it done ASAP if he doesn't want the same fate as one Ned Stark.

As JBH said, it's all barber shop talk, not to be taken seriously.

[MrMeltdown]

Please, who is the judge in the courtroom to judge the people that come in the court? It is not a prerequisite that the judge in the courtroom knows all the facts.

Honestly, I think Bud is getting the same "we should build him a statue" treatment that Ferry got when he first came here which is silly to me. Bud is a leader of a team that was below .500 and people act like he has no faults.

Edited May 28, 2014 by MrMeltdown

[Guest]

We're fans. It's not only our inalienable right to make unfair judgements on our GM and head coach and give them lofty expectations, but it's our duty. Ultimately, we're the ones that the entire organization has to appease; therefore if we want LeBron, then by god, Ferry better find a way to get it done ASAP if he doesn't want the same fate as one Ned Stark.

As JBH said, it's all barber shop talk, not to be taken seriously.

Oh, poor Ned, he lost his head! LOL!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I personally think it is too early to be critical of Bud based on the the transition with the system and the good early results, but saying that fans aren't entitled to have their own opinion is silly.

You can absolutely question things about the way Bud runs the team or how Ferry handles the front office.

The idea that Bud can't possibly draw up a terrible set play or screw up the substitution patterns at some point is just not realistic. If Bud chooses to sit Horford and Sap down the stretch of a tight game next year and play Scott and Antić instead and we lose because we can't secure key rebounds then he is absolutely open to fan criticism.

Personally, I am very happy with what I have seen from Bud but there isn't a coach that fans "can't question."

The ironic thing about this thread is that JTB is the KING of knee-jerk opinions in this forum. While I don't agree with all of his rants, his posts are entertaining to me.

Just wait till draft night. He'll be ripping dead into the GM if he feels that he made a bad pick. And he'll have the right to do so.

[JTB]

Please, who is the judge in the courtroom to judge the people that come in the court? It is not a prerequisite that the judge in the courtroom knows all the facts.

Honestly, I think Bud is getting the same "we should build him a statue" treatment that Ferry got when he first came here which is silly to me. Bud is a leader of a team that was below .500 and people act like he has no faults.

Bud got all he could out of a team that most would consider scrubs. But the true scrubs are the past hawk teams woody and LD ran.

Players on this hawks team actually developed and got better under Bud. Players on this team actually fought with heart and hustle...you can't say that during the woody/LD era!

It's hard to blame bud when he didn't even have horford for a half of the season and still got the team to fight as hard as they could.

Bud doesn't deserve a trophy....yet but after one year he's showed us that he can be a fantastic coach for years to come and he will get his talent to prove it.

[tbhawksfan]

I was thinking of rating the OP on his thread (not good) but decided not to since I've never used that particular function. BUT based on the way the thread has developed and that it has clearly become a free speach argument I now find myself to rate it (PDG: pretty dam good).

We are here to express our views and opinions on Hawks things (and a few others) and that's why most of us are here.

The best thing to be intolerant about is intolerance.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Please, who is the judge in the courtroom to judge the people that come in the court? It is not a prerequisite that the judge in the courtroom knows all the facts.

Honestly, I think Bud is getting the same "we should build him a statue" treatment that Ferry got when he first came here which is silly to me. Bud is a leader of a team that was below .500 and people act like he has no faults.

LOL. I like Bud a lot. But he's definitely not above being criticized.