Would Cavs want Horford or more?

[Buzzard]

5th

Embiid

Wiggins

Parker

Exum

Horford

The Jazz are in such a horrible position. They have invested money and picks in Favors, Hayward, Burke, Burkes, and Kanter; yet still need valid options IMO everywhere except Hayward. If any team needs to move a pick for a vet its them.

My order with Horford in the draft.

Wiggins

Embiid

Horford

Parker

*Randle

*Smart

*Exum

* these three are so close they could be interchangeable.

[hazer]

I don't trust Horf's durability anymore. And how long has he been talking about playing out of position? I'd do this in a heartbeat, especially if it was straight up, or with our 2nd tossed in there:

Teague/Mack/Shredder

Afflalo or Hayward/Korver/Lou

DMC/Young/Korver

Sap/Scott/Moose

Embiid/Hill/Bebe

[AHF]

Man I cant move Horford for unproven talent. I just cant do it. Embiid is probably going to be the next Oden. Wiggins has no drive. To have all that talent he sure is boring to watch.

Im happy where we are at with our team and draft position.

I remember getting blasted by some people on here when I said I would move Horford for Anthony Davis when he was in the draft. You don't get those guys for someone like Horford (fringe All-Star with recent injury problems) once they have blossomed fully.

[HawkItus]

I don't trust Horf's durability anymore. And how long has he been talking about playing out of position? I'd do this in a heartbeat, especially if it was straight up, or with our 2nd tossed in there:

Teague/Mack/Shredder

Afflalo or Hayward/Korver/Lou

DMC/Young/Korver

Sap/Scott/Moose

Embiid/Hill/Bebe

WTH is that team doing? This years team without Horf is better than that team lol

[HawkItus]

I remember getting blasted by some people on here when I said I would move Horford for Anthony Davis when he was in the draft. You don't get those guys for someone like Horford (fringe All-Star with recent injury problems) once they have blossomed fully.

Anthony Davis was a can't miss type guy. Horf for Davis would of been a no brainer, hence the reason that pick was never on the block. If any of these guys were can't miss picks teams wouldn't even discuss a trade. Hell, even the year Al came out nobody was looking to move out of the top 3.

[Sothron]

That's what I was thinking. However, each time I saw Wiggins play I found myself thinking, "Man, if this kid had half MJ's drive he'd be great." I get the feeling he's more Marvin than Kobe in terms of mentality.

Embiid has to be the pick. Perhaps the most shocking news in this thread is super-Horford fan @Sothron being on board with trading Al. Almost fell outta my seat when I read that.

I love Big Al but he's not a superstar. We need a superstar to win a ring. The top three picks in this draft have potential superstar written all over them. I'd rather take that chance on them rather than be mediocre playoff bound.

[hazer]

WTH is that team doing? This years team without Horf is better than that team lol

You actually read my post, right?. I'm replacing Korver's starting with an upgrade like Afflalo or Hayward at the 2, allowing Korver to 6th-man snipe off the bench. I'm also replacing Antić with Embiid in the starting lineup, and Brand with Jordan Hill as backup 5. Hawks then have one of the best benches in the league with Mack, Korver, Young, Scott, and Hill. That team would kill last year's Horfless squad.

[JTB]

I love Big Al but he's not a superstar. We need a superstar to win a ring. The top three picks in this draft have potential superstar written all over them. I'd rather take that chance on them rather than be mediocre playoff bound.

I agree and the superstar potential these players have, have a great chance of making that happen under a great development coach like Bud and staff.

That's why this is so intriguing! If bud wasn't the coach I probably would be against this but i just feel that bud could coach up any of these guys to reach their full potential...with that said it's still a scary thought to lose horford.

[AHF]

Anthony Davis was a can't miss type guy. Horf for Davis would of been a no brainer, hence the reason that pick was never on the block. If any of these guys were can't miss picks teams wouldn't even discuss a trade. Hell, even the year Al came out nobody was looking to move out of the top 3.

Lots of people on here thought Davis' upside was the next Marcus Camby.

You are right that can't miss trades don't happen. Nobody trades $10 for $5 because it is a certainty that $5 is less than $10. There needs to be risk on both sides for most deals to get done.

In this case, Cleveland trades for Al with the risk that Al has ruined health or that he might leave the team in two years and the downside of higher salary. The upside is that he is a proven performer who could potentially help lure Lebron and/or retain Kyrie Irving.

Atlanta trades for the pick with less risk on salary and team control. The risk is on performance and health with Embiid.

The John Drew for Nique trade is a perfect comparison. The Jazz got a proven two-time All-Star following his age 27 season who averaged roughly 21-22 ppg, 7.5 rpg and 1.5 spg and gave up an unproven higher upside draft pick. (Al is also a two-time All-Star coming off his age 27 season).

Atlanta dealt the known player for the lower floor, higher upside prospect. If there wasn't uncertainty on these guys, there wouldn't be any trades.

Edited May 29, 2014 by AHF

[hazer]

You outta yo mind if you think:

Teague

Korver

DMC

Sap

Antić

.....beats:

Teague

Afflalo or Hayward

DMC

Sap

Embiid

And that:

Mack

Lou

Korver

Scott

Brand

.....beats:

Mack

Korver

Young

Scott

Hill

[AHF]

hazer - you gave too much credit to last year's team. You have Korver in both the starting lineup and the reserves.

[Mdizzle5]

This is very interesting if true. I think Ferry would be a fool to pass this up or not at least strongly consider this. ESPECIALLY if they can keep the #15 pick. Even if its a step back for a season (don't we have the option to switch with the Nets next season as well?) or two, it could potentially pay off BIG TIME.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Mdizzle5

[MaceCase]

Why?

Jrue Holiday (a #17 pick) was traded for the #6 pick, a 2014 1st round pick, top 5 lottery protected (#10 this year). Al is worth more than the 1st pick, we should be getting more back from Cleveland, not sending out more stuff with Al.

Well it's simple.

1st) The Pelicans were idiots attempting to jump start their rebuilding process rather than being patient after only one year of having Davis. This is often an edict by new owners especially in Benson's case after he had the name and brand of the team changed. In the case of the Warriors it worked somewhat (Bogut), for the Kings it failed (Gay) and for the Nets it underwhelmed tremendously (The "Blueprint For Success" to the "Core Four" part un and deux).

2nd) Holiday was/is younger, on the first year of his deal and was fresh off an All Star appearance. Al hasn't made the team in 3 years and spent 2 of those with season ending injuries.

3rd) Not all drafts are created equal. The Pelicans gave up the 6th pick in a horrific draft (a player that was known to likely be out the entirety of the season) and a pick protected against the top 5 in a much stronger draft. You're doing the reverse of asking for the best pick in that much stronger draft for a player that was out the majority of the season.

4th) Guards are more marketable than bigs

[JTB]

Oh my!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8_MDi2bZrU

Guys whatever ferry and bud do I'm with it! Embiid is a very rare center today and his potential is the highest of any in the draft. Just look at the video above! Man I know ferry and bud knows best but if I could trade horford + Lou + 15th pick for cavs #1 pick + waiters....I'm all for it! Embiid has better post offense than horford at this stage and he can shoot and block, coach bud will make sure he doesn't fail and I'm sure if the trigger is pulled we have a top notch medical staff in place to go about this back issue the right way!

This is just another one of those cases like a horford for Anthony David type deal. Maybe ferry and bud will really look into it because embiid could be our Duncan in the future.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Dolfan23
Embedded video

[Admin]

I remember getting blasted by some people on here when I said I would move Horford for Anthony Davis when he was in the draft. You don't get those guys for someone like Horford (fringe All-Star with recent injury problems) once they have blossomed fully.

Because Davis is a tweener PF-C and I don't think any of us expected he'd be able to withstand the grind of an 82 game season being so thin (jury is still out) whereas Embiid has injury concerns but at least he's a legit 5 and there's no question he's got the body for the position.

[Admin]

Anthony Davis was a can't miss type guy. Horf for Davis would of been a no brainer, hence the reason that pick was never on the block. If any of these guys were can't miss picks teams wouldn't even discuss a trade. Hell, even the year Al came out nobody was looking to move out of the top 3.

No he wasn't. There were major questions about his ability to score and his ability to withstand the pounding he has to take at his generously listed 220 lbs. So far in 2 seasons he's played 60 and 66 games.

Now, he's a far superior offensive player than many expected but he wasn't a can't miss prospect.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/anthony-davis

Weaknesses: The number one drawback on Davis is his overall strength, or lack thereof .. Despite his youth, he is unquestionably thin and the issue remains just how much weight he can add, and how that added weight will affect his speed and agility ... His shoulders suggest he can build on his frame, and he’s noticeably chiseled his arms, however a thin waist likely means he won;t be able to bulk up substantially ... Must work on his core and lower body- easily gets pinned and backed down in the paint ... Unable to establish and maintain position inside, often finding himself bumped off balance ... Rarely used in isolation post-up’s during his freshman campaign, particularly given his size advantage on many nights and solid footwork ... Offensive canvas is raw, with obvious enormous room for improvement ... Doesn’t yet have a feel for his jump shot, often rushing the attempt and shooting a flat shot ... There are times where he displays extreme comfort handling the ball, but face-up/dribble-drive maneuvers are few and far between ... While he’s a tremendous secondary and tertiary leaper, he too often leaves his feet on pump fakes ... It’s hard to fault him for being shot block happy, but the lack of discipline is not to his benefit ... His athleticism and length won’t cover up all shortcomings against super competition ... Projecting Davis going forward, there’s not much to dislike ... Physical maturity is the only visible hurdle standing in his path to beast mode.

[sturt]

I prefer the Draft Express videos... get some balanced scouting, both strengths and weaknesses.

http://youtu.be/cn-dtrmh0nM

Buyer beware... the memory of even stronger talk about Greg "No Knees" Oden still lingers.

[HawkItus]

No he wasn't. There were major questions about his ability to score and his ability to withstand the pounding he has to take at his generously listed 220 lbs. So far in 2 seasons he's played 60 and 66 games.

Now, he's a far superior offensive player than many expected but he wasn't a can't miss prospect.

Interesting. I saw more stuff like this:

Clearly Davis is one of the premier players in the class. He seems to fit best at power forward, but with his rebounding and shot blocking skill he could play center, and then he is athletic and skilled enough to be a small forward as well. Once he gets stronger, which he will, his potential is nearly limitless. Davis has the look of a big time NBA player down the road.

Strengths

• Multi-Positional
• Rebounding
• Shot-Blocker

To Improve

• Strength

[Admin]

I prefer the Draft Express videos... get some balanced scouting, both strengths and weaknesses.

http://youtu.be/cn-dtrmh0nM

Buyer beware... the memory of even stronger talk about Greg "No Knees" Oden still lingers.

If the argument is Embiid or Horford I'm willing to roll the dice as they're both semi-damaged goods. If you're saying take Parker or Wiggins then I can see that being a legit argument as neither have injury concerns and both have superstar potential.

[Admin]

Interesting. I saw more stuff like this:

Clearly Davis is one of the premier players in the class. He seems to fit best at power forward, but with his rebounding and shot blocking skill he could play center, and then he is athletic and skilled enough to be a small forward as well. Once he gets stronger, which he will, his potential is nearly limitless. Davis has the look of a big time NBA player down the road.

Strengths

• Multi-Positional
• Rebounding
• Shot-Blocker

To Improve

• Strength

Where'd you find that? I already posted what NBADraft.net listed as his weaknesses. (I refuse to browse a prospect page on Dx anymore as they have a bunch of videos that auto-play and the page takes forever to load or crashes).

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/anthony-davis

Weaknesses: The number one drawback on Davis is his overall strength, or lack thereof .. Despite his youth, he is unquestionably thin and the issue remains just how much weight he can add, and how that added weight will affect his speed and agility ... His shoulders suggest he can build on his frame, and he’s noticeably chiseled his arms, however a thin waist likely means he won;t be able to bulk up substantially ... Must work on his core and lower body- easily gets pinned and backed down in the paint ... Unable to establish and maintain position inside, often finding himself bumped off balance ... Rarely used in isolation post-up’s during his freshman campaign, particularly given his size advantage on many nights and solid footwork ... Offensive canvas is raw, with obvious enormous room for improvement ... Doesn’t yet have a feel for his jump shot, often rushing the attempt and shooting a flat shot ... There are times where he displays extreme comfort handling the ball, but face-up/dribble-drive maneuvers are few and far between ... While he’s a tremendous secondary and tertiary leaper, he too often leaves his feet on pump fakes ... It’s hard to fault him for being shot block happy, but the lack of discipline is not to his benefit ... His athleticism and length won’t cover up all shortcomings against super competition ... Projecting Davis going forward, there’s not much to dislike ... Physical maturity is the only visible hurdle standing in his path to beast mode.