Merged: Grantland - Free Agency Winners and Losers

[HawkItus]

http://grantland.com/features/2014-nba-free-agency-winners-and-losers-houston-rockets-chandler-parsons/

 

 

 

 

Loser: Atlanta Hawks

No one will take Atlanta’s money, despite a good core of players, a very good coaching staff, and an innovative style of play Mike Budenholzer has only just begun installing. Some stars won’t even meet with them. I almost wanted to hug Budenholzer when I saw him in Vegas. The most common theory among insiders for Atlanta’s lack of appeal is that players see the Hawks as a dull franchise with a dead crowd and a limited postseason history that almost always involves NBA TV.

That will turn around at some point, but just about everyone Atlanta has approached so far rebuffed the Hawks’ invitation to get in on the ground floor.

 

[HawkItus]

I made a post about this a week or so back.  It isn't so much not getting "the guy" it is the guy not listening.  And before the tank crow comes in lets say we do get "a star".  You're telling me we don't get the Cleveland, Toronto, Minnesota treatment from that guy?  The current status of this franchise is just not going to support a #1 guy.   Hell even our homeboy Josh was ready to split before we kicked him out.   

[Admin]

How about the fans just show up and be a top 5 crowd for an entire season. Then see how the players respond in free agency? I know I know it's too much to ask. Hard not understand why they wouldn't want to play in front of 12 thousand fans everything night, many of whom are cheering for the other team. 

[Diesel]

How about the fans just show up and be a top 5 crowd for an entire season. Then see how the players respond in free agency? I know I know it's too much to ask. Hard not understand why they wouldn't want to play in front of 12 thousand fans everything night, many of whom are cheering for the other team. 

 

 

Chicken and EGG my friend.

 

It's disheartening to hear that crowd support is the thing that Free agents are looking at as part of the reason that they don't want to come.  Moreover, Ferry will have to learn that you do have to overpay to get over this Chicken and Egg scenerio.  However, my hopes were high considering how strongly we played against Indy with us being short staffed.

 

I'm glad that all of the guys who snubbed us are in the east.  That's 3 to 4 games we get to show them up close that they f---- up.  So all this frustration that Bud and we fans feel right now, we have to take out on the Heat and the Bulls!!   Everytime we play them, I'm hoping that Gasol and Deng come back with goose eggs.

[HawkItus]

How about the fans just show up and be a top 5 crowd for an entire season. Then see how the players respond in free agency? I know I know it's too much to ask. Hard not understand why they wouldn't want to play in front of 12 thousand fans everything night, many of whom are cheering for the other team. 

See, but that is bull.  Ask Smitty and Mookie(ok maybe Mookie is busy lol) about the crowds.  Look at the playoff series against the Celtics and game 5 against the Pacers.  If players and agents take that approach it is just lazy.   Like Lebron some smart star is going to come feed this hungry city and become a sports god doing it.  

[Twinblade]

How about the fans just show up and be a top 5 crowd for an entire season. Then see how the players respond in free agency? I know I know it's too much to ask. Hard not understand why they wouldn't want to play in front of 12 thousand fans everything night, many of whom are cheering for the other team.

I'm not going to the hawks game, until asg is gone for good.

[Admin]

Chicken and EGG my friend.

 

It's disheartening to hear that crowd support is the thing that Free agents are looking at as part of the reason that they don't want to come.  Moreover, Ferry will have to learn that you do have to overpay to get over this Chicken and Egg scenerio.  However, my hopes were high considering how strongly we played against Indy with us being short staffed.

 

I'm glad that all of the guys who snubbed us are in the east.  That's 3 to 4 games we get to show them up close that they f---- up.  So all this frustration that Bud and we fans feel right now, we have to take out on the Heat and the Bulls!!   Everytime we play them, I'm hoping that Gasol and Deng come back with goose eggs.

 

I don't buy that. Other teams (like the Raptors) have sucked for years and have no problem selling out. The fans there just show up. We've discussed this countless times on here and we'll never agree, but the truth is that Atlanta will never support the Hawks throughout the regular season unless we're the best team in basketball or we have a super duper star. 

I'm not going to the hawks game, until asg is gone for good.

 

Well that oughta teach em! Way to support the players! 

[Sothron]

I'm not going to the hawks game, until asg is gone for good.

 

same here. They stabbed myself and every other Atlanta fan in the back when they refused to sell the Thrashers locally because they thought they were selling the Hawks and arena to that Cuban pizza guy from Cali

[Admin]

See, but that is bull.  Ask Smitty and Mookie(ok maybe Mookie is busy lol) about the crowds.  Look at the playoff series against the Celtics and game 5 against the Pacers.  If players and agents take that approach it is just lazy.   Like Lebron some smart star is going to come feed this hungry city and become a sports god doing it.  

 

It's not bull. We have piss poor fan support now... during the regular season. Call it BS all you want but facts are facts. Only the diehard Hawks fans will show up during the regular season. 

During the playoffs yeah the fans show out. Which makes me not buy into the BS excuses that traffic is too bad or security is too tough or there's too much else going on around Atlanta during the regular season to not show up and support the team. 

[Admin]

28th in the league in home attendance last year. Way to support a team going to the playoffs for the 7th straight year. 

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

 

Or maybe these FA's should want to come here and have the home crowd boo them when they're playing against Lebron or Kobe or other super stars that the general fans care more about? 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I said it in another thread: it's the catch 22 of Atlanta sports. We need stars to attract fans and we need fans to attract stars. One side needs to give in order to get the other or we'll all be rooting for the Seattle Superhawks some day.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited July 15, 2014 by PSSSHHHRRR87

[Guest]

This is a half baked theory. The simpler theory is that Ferry is negotiating like a hard ass. Which we have documentation of and know to be true.

Remember when Varejao was going through extension talk? Remember Larry Hughes not getting a max deal? How much change did Millsap get? Has Ferry ever given a max deal to anyone not named LeBron?

Oh but no no no, it's easier to throw out a half assed narrative like poor crowd support. Is crowd support what kept Hayward from signing with another bottom 5 team in attendance??? What about Frye going to the poorly attended Magic?

[Admin]

I said it in another thread: it's the catch 22 of Atlanta sports. We need stars to attract fans and we need fans to attract stars. One side needs to give in order to get the other or we'll all be rooting for the Seattle Superhawks some day.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

You know the stars aren't going to be the ones giving in. All we can hope for is that this collection of rag tag sub-stars drastically overachieves and ends this cycle, cause it sure doesn't seem like the casual fans (~90+% of the people buying tickets) are going to buckle. 

[Admin]

This is a half baked theory. The simpler theory is that Ferry is negotiating like a hard ass. Which we have documentation of and know to be true.

Remember when Varejao was going through extension talk? Remember Larry Hughes not getting a max deal? How much change did Millsap get? Has Ferry ever given a max deal to anyone not named LeBron?

Oh but no no no, it's easier to throw out a half assed narrative like poor crowd support. Is crowd support what kept Hayward from signing with another bottom 5 team in attendance??? What about Frye going to the poorly attended Magic?

 

Those aren't star players.  Name one star player who went and signed with a team who has poor fan support. 

 

You're right that Ferry is a hard negotiator but I don't think you can disprove what there's been tons of rumors about and that's that star players (or even fringe star players) don't want to play in front of empty arenas. 

[AHF]

Atlanta will struggle to land consistent big crowds until they get the basketball equivalent of a Michael Vick type star.  Joe Johnson had the personality of a brick and he was the best player on the team for the last decade.  Deke is the last "best player" we had with real personality and he averaged about 12 ppg.

 

An Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Kobe, Lebron, etc. type would electrify the city and draw big crowds like Vick did with the Falcons (granting that the base of football fans is significantly larger than basketball fans in the area).  If we are relying on Al Horford, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Jeff Teauge, Joe Johnson, etc. types who are quality players but anything but electric then the Hawks are going to have to have some type of break-through performance to really grow the fan base.  A string of first and second round exits won't cut it.

[Admin]

And also the NBA players aren't dumb.  They notice that Philips is around 3,000 fans short of what the average they play in front of every night is. 

[NBASupes]

If Atlanta gonna build around Horford, they need to build around him. Move him to PF. PnR/PnP with a lot of ball movement and feed him the rock. He had great efficiency on offense last year but his defense dropped off a bit. That's probably due to the lose of Smoove more than anything thought. As for him and Sap, their efficiency together wasn't good at all. I want that to improve but they are kinda redundant aside from Sap being more likely to draw fouls and score in more ways and Horf being better at movement, shooting, size, and athletic ability on offense. 

[NBASupes]

Those aren't star players.  Name one star player who went and signed with a team who has poor fan support. 

 

You're right that Ferry is a hard negotiator but I don't think you can disprove what there's been tons of rumors about and that's that star players (or even fringe star players) don't want to play in front of empty arenas. 

It's not just empty arenas, ppl in the city don't care about the Hawks. They don't know the players unless they play for a popular team. They are never on national TV. They tend to be boring. Fans of the NBA greatly undervalue Hawks players. 

[AHF]

Oh but no no no, it's easier to throw out a half assed narrative like poor crowd support. Is crowd support what kept Hayward from signing with another bottom 5 team in attendance??? What about Frye going to the poorly attended Magic?

 

I think we are absolutely able to land those types of middle-of-the-road players with overpay style contracts (which, IMO, describes both the rich Frye and rich Haward contracts).  We can get those guys without anything changing.  

 

The real issue is when we are offering basically the same amount of money as other teams and going after elite FAs who have their choice of destinations or who prioritize a shot at a championship over the highest priced contract.

[Guest]

Those aren't star players.  Name one star player who went and signed with a team who has poor fan support. 

 

You're right that Ferry is a hard negotiator but I don't think you can disprove what there's been tons of rumors about and that's that star players (or even fringe star players) don't want to play in front of empty arenas.

Bosh, D-Wade, and LeBron. Miami is notorious for inflating their attendance numbers as well.

But I guess that one was different somehow? Which is how a narrative works, one continues to retell the story each time to make sure the original point appears true. Even though there is a simpler explanation. Danny Ferry didn't offer more money with the exception of Pau Gasol.

And what star did Ferry miss out on this time?