Merged: Greg Monroe Topics

[Diesel]

How is this homerism? You feel this way because you don't understand probability. Let me guess you also feel the NBA rigged the a draft for the Cavs to get 4 number one picks in the last 10 years. Well guess what it's much more likely for them to not get it again for the next 25 years.

Freak things happen sometimes twice and in the Cavs case 4 times; it does not mean the event is more likely the next time.

If you don't get this concept than there's nothing else for us to talk about.

As far as trading for Al he is exactly the type player I would be trying to trade for. I love undervalued assets especially the ones undervalued through qualitative mumbo jumbo or it's close relative the eye test.

 

I'll ignore your obvious attempt to change the subject.   Back to the subject, Al has missed serveral games in the last 3 years.  Fortunately, for us, it wasn't an injury that was chronic so he didn't lose much trade value.  However, his injury happens from extension of his arms and rotation of arms... i.e. rebounding.  You with your percentages cannot say that it won't happen again.   Especially if it's caused by the way he rebounds.  Rare injury... happens to the same guy twice... Somethings are more systematic than possibility.

[ATLien_]

I'll ignore your obvious attempt to change the subject. Back to the subject, Al has missed serveral games in the last 3 years. Fortunately, for us, it wasn't an injury that was chronic so he didn't lose much trade value. However, his injury happens from extension of his arms and rotation of arms... i.e. rebounding. You with your percentages cannot say that it won't happen again. Especially if it's caused by the way he rebounds. Rare injury... happens to the same guy twice... Somethings are more systematic than possibility.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying I wouldn't bet my house on him injuring his pec again. Let's not forget he had many healthy seasons before his first and the second was not even the same pectoral. If we are going to make the jump and say they're related shouldn't it be the same pec?

Most people don't get these injuries while playing sports; they get them while lifting. Al could have damaged the pec lifting, and it popped on the court. Hopefully he's adjusting his workout routine as necessary.

This seems to happen in the NFL most often, and it's almost always while lifting.

Edited August 11, 2014 by ATLien_

[buckeye242424]

Whether "freak" or not, the dude is injury prone. And he's one of my favorite players. We're a better team when he's on the floor... But he's in a suit...

[Guest]

I'll ignore your obvious attempt to change the subject. Back to the subject, Al has missed serveral games in the last 3 years. Fortunately, for us, it wasn't an injury that was chronic so he didn't lose much trade value. However, his injury happens from extension of his arms and rotation of arms... i.e. rebounding. You with your percentages cannot say that it won't happen again. Especially if it's caused by the way he rebounds. Rare injury... happens to the same guy twice... Somethings are more systematic than possibility.

I don't remember the injuries being from rebounding? Are you sure? My memory might be a little fuzzy but the way I remember: The 1st involved Hibbert, his hand got caught on Hibbert's shoulder or something like that then he was falling to the court. The 2nd happen outside the paint he was trying to overplay a pass or something like that.

[Diesel]

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying I wouldn't bet my house on him injuring his pec again. Let's not forget he had many healthy seasons before his first and the second was not even the same pectoral. If we are going to make the jump and say they're related shouldn't it be the same pec?

Most people don't get these injuries while playing sports; they get them while lifting. Al could have damaged the pec lifting, and it popped on the court. Hopefully he's adjusting his workout routine as necessary.

This seems to happen in the NFL most often, and it's almost always while lifting.

 

Bench Pressing is one way, but rebounding is another obvious more probable way that the injury occurs... I have never noted the mechanics of his rebounding but I know the first time it happened, he was playing center against a much larger Hibbert who overpowered him.  The second time it happened, it was a game against Cavs.  Unlike baseball players, the rest of us know that as you get older, your muscles begin to lose their elasticity and mass.  Although, he's not old (27) he has basketball years on him and if his injuries are caused by bad mechanics or just being overpowered by bigger guys most nights, then I would suggest that it's more systematic than freak.   We're talking the same rare injury happening to the same person.  I'm not saying that he's damaged goods, I'm saying, if we're trading to get needs met and younger, i wouldn't rule him out especially if we can parlay a first rounder with Monroe.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Diesel

[Diesel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh91b4slFm0

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARgCl3qbc0I

 

Ok, so they wasn't from rebounding.   It was reaching and getting his shot blocked by a bigger player.   Al tore his pec by reaching.   I still believe that there were several games of rebounding that contributed to the tear... but reaching.  How often will he do that?   The Hibbert case was more like a rebound.  He went up and got blocked.  Do you think that's never going to happen again?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Diesel

[Peoriabird]

Diesel are you still upset that we took Horford over that Chinese guy?  Horford's peck muscle should not be an issue going forward.

[Guest]

Diesel are you still upset that we took Horford over that Chinese guy?  Horford's peck muscle should not be an issue going forward.

What? Yi?

[Diesel]

What? Yi?

 

Nope.  Not at all.   I like Horf.   I just realize that while we sit here missing opportunities because Horf is injured, the league is getting better.  Monroe + 1st might not seem like much to you, but I would say it's fair compensation that makes us younger, unlogjammed, and less concerned with injury.

 

My question to you.  Are you obsessed with Horf simply because we drafted him?  Or is it because we have him under contract?  2012 & 2014 both lost due to injury.

 

Seriously, I bet you don't even have a situation where you would say " I'd do that Al trade"... do you?

[Peoriabird]

What? Yi?

Don't you remember?  Diesel was making thread after thread about how we should draft that guy!

[Diesel]

Diesel are you still upset that we took Horford over that Chinese guy?  Horford's peck muscle should not be an issue going forward.

 

I remember hearing the same thing when he healed from his left pect tear....

 

Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

[Peoriabird]

I remember hearing the same thing when he healed from his left pect tear....

 

Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

We shall see because despite your desire to rid the Hawks of injury prone Horford, he isn't going anywhere

[Guest]

Nope.  Not at all.   I like Horf.   I just realize that while we sit here missing opportunities because Horf is injured, the league is getting better.  Monroe + 1st might not seem like much to you, but I would say it's fair compensation that makes us younger, unlogjammed, and less concerned with injury.

 

My question to you.  Are you obsessed with Horf simply because we drafted him?  Or is it because we have him under contract?  2012 & 2014 both lost due to injury.

 

Seriously, I bet you don't even have a situation where you would say " I'd do that Al trade"... do you?

I've said before and I'll say it again - I'm not averse to trading ANYONE on this team if I think it's a CLEAR upgrade (or if it's a total rebuild) since we have no CORNERSTONE SUPERSTAR on this team.

I'm just not a fan of some if this trade stuff that's been proposed. That's just the way I see it. Could I be wrong sure, I'm just not convinced.

[Guest]

Don't you remember?  Diesel was making thread after thread about how we should draft that guy!

I joined the Squawk in 2009 so that was before my time.

[Vol4ever]

TFWIW - Talked to a buddy of fine a few minutes ago and he told me the Hawks had looked into Monroe on a phone call or two but the Hawks are not strong after him.  He said the Hawks are bottom feeders and only will go after players on really cheap contracts and that they believe they can win with the system they have in place and not spend alot on salaries.   They had rather have several salaries in the same range with quantity not superior all star type talent.  

 

Like I said its not official just an outside opinion.  

[Diesel]

I've said before and I'll say it again - I'm not averse to trading ANYONE on this team if I think it's a CLEAR upgrade (or if it's a total rebuild) since we have no CORNERSTONE SUPERSTAR on this team.

I'm just not a fan of some if this trade stuff that's been proposed. That's just the way I see it. Could I be wrong sure, I'm just not convinced.

 

Maybe that's just it.  How much do you value Horf who is a 2 time allstar but has missed 2 of the last 3 seasons with injury.

 

How much do you devalue Monroe (6'11" 253 lbs) who has been about a 15/10 player shooting ~50% mostly from the high post because he's been forced to give up the low post to a better low post player.   Coming in when there was no Drummond, Monroe shot 55 and 52% from the field.

Also, how much do you devalue a first round pick from a team that has Smoove and Brandon Jennings?  Any way you look at it, that pick will be between 10-20.

 

I think it's how you look at it. While I value what Horf has given us, I am not blind to the missed opps we have had because of his injuries.

[Diesel]

TFWIW - Talked to a buddy of fine a few minutes ago and he told me the Hawks had looked into Monroe on a phone call or two but the Hawks are not strong after him.  He said the Hawks are bottom feeders and only will go after players on really cheap contracts and that they believe they can win with the system they have in place and not spend alot on salaries.   They had rather have several salaries in the same range with quantity not superior all star type talent.  

 

Like I said its not official just an outside opinion.  

 

Figured as much.Elitism is as Elitist does...  I just hate that Ferry is so screwed up that he wants to prove that he can win without superior talent.   He wants to prove that Advanced Metrics is the guru of Basketball.  I disagree.  It takes talent to win and sometimes you have to spend on talent.

[gsuteke]

I don't think you trade Horford right now for two reasons that are somewhat contradictory of one another.

A. I think the pec tears were freak occurrences.

B. His value is at it's lowest until he gets back onto the court in a regular season NBA game.

[Guest]

There is no possible way Horford will tear his pec again. 100% no way. I'm sure he switched up his workouts and is now lifting much lighter weights with more reps. Horford is a smart and hardworking cat that is looking to improve his game every year.

We are not trading him. Well, not now anyways. We shall see when is contract is about to expire and evaluate then.

[Jody23]

There is no possible way Horford will tear his pec again. 100% no way.

We're all rooting for Horf to stay healthy, but tearing a pec again is a possibility.