At What point did Bud/wilcox decide to go through with this trade?

[Blunt91]

I am just wondering was the Tim Hardaway trade already a contingency plan if the player the Hawks wanted wasn't in reach? It is kind of funny that we only heard of a few 1stround players in this draft working out for the Hawks, most of what we read were projected 2nd round picks coming in working out for the Hawks.  Did we decide to do the trade after Justice Winslow was picked or was it The Suns taking Devin Booker at 13?  Wish ESPN had of stated before the Oubre pick that we were drafting for the Wizards and not afterwards, I proably could have took it a little better. I don't like suprises.

 

Furthermore, you mean to tell me Bud & his staff couldn't improve Dekker's jumper and defense?  He was an older player that this team usually likes but they passed on him.

[ATLien_]

I don't mind the trade so much, but it just doesn't seem like we got the right value for the 15th pick in the draft. That's the one thing Danny Ferry was really good at "getting things at the right value". It sounds like THJ could have been had for much less maybe even a second rounder.

You can't tell me that if we made the 15th pick available before the draft we couldn't have gotten someone better than THJ? I think he only has 1year left on his deal too. We probably could have gotten Gorgei Dieng or Shabazz Muhammed straight up for that pick. They are both cheap and productive and we would have controlled them longer. There are tons of guys on rookie deals that are much better imo.

This feels like the smartest guy in the room type move. I deal with this from Dimitrov with the Falcons. Taking guys projected in the 6th round in the 3rd cough cough Lamar Holmes. Even if he pans out its a bad pick because you didn't maximize value. If he can be had in the 6th why draft him in the 3rd? If THJ can be had for a second why give up a first?

Edited June 26, 2015 by ATLien_

[Buzzard]

 

 

AT WHAT POINT DID BUD/WILCOX DECIDE TO GO THROUGH WITH THIS TRADE?

 

Probably once these five players were gone:

 

Kaminsky, Winslow, Lyles, Turner, Booker. Everyone left was considered a project, role player, or a point guard.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Buzzard

[coachx]

 

 

Probably once these five players were gone:

 

Kaminsky, Winslow, Lyles, Turner, Booker. Everyone left was considered a project, role player, or a point guard.

Well said.

 

With Korver not playing until possible January we need a starting  SG to start the season. The SG we picked up is just 6 months older then the rookie PG we traded.

 

Hardaway Jr was playing with a cast of misfits in NY. It was a weak attempt at the triangle offense. I think Hardaway JR can thrive in our system and will be ready contribute in game #1. At just 23 years old he still has upside.

[Guest]

Well said.

With Korver not playing until possible January we need a starting SG to start the season. The SG we picked up is just 6 months older then the rookie PG we traded.

Hardaway Jr was playing with a cast of misfits in NY. It was a weak attempt at the triangle offense. I think Hardaway JR can thrive in our system and will be ready contribute in game #1. At just 23 years old he still has upside.

Whaaat??? Korver out til January???

[Vol4ever]

I like the trade. Hardaway better than anyone we could pick at 15. He has been in the league and is a very goog shooter.

[atlhawks1]

I dont think Bud is the man for the job on the personnel side.

 

I understand WHY they wanted Hardaway ( insurance for Korver), but what they paid for Hardaway wasnt the way to go. I said last week that the ONE thing i questioned about Bud is his management. Now we know that Wes is a part of the decisions also, but its ultimately Bud telling Wes what he is gonna do on the personnel front. Im convinced already that Bud isnt the man for the job on the personnel side. Here is the short list of reasons why:

 

1. Pero Antić..............

 

2. Standing pat at the trade deadline when everybody and their mistress knew the Hawks needed rebounding help.

 

3. Trading Adreian Payne for draft picks they not gonna use anyway.

 

4. Going on record ADMITTING he dont like young players. Dennis has been the exception.

 

5. Disregarding his first round pick, and using it for a player ( Hardaway), that over rated Phil Jackson wouldve taken lower picks for.

 

6. Putting all his chips into free agency to address his front court, when he couldve TRIED to address it with that first round draft pick.

 

7. I understand the WIN NOW decision making, thus the not wanting to develop young players, but what makes Bud think the Hawks, as currently constituted, gonna take a step up past Cleveland? They were lucky to get past Brooklyn and Washington in the playoffs.

 

Folks, thats a LOT of stuff in a short period of time, and all of its proven and not just what i think he has done. If he doesnt correct this by getting a Aldridge type player in free agency, he has proven he needs to stick to the sidelines and the Hawks hire a general manager for personnel decisions.........

Edited June 26, 2015 by atlhawks1

[Dragitoff]

I think THJ is cheap offense off the bench.  That's not a bad thing.  The fact that we drafted two other euro stashes tells me we're saving our $ for either re-signing Carroll and Millsap or going for a big fish.  I'm not crazy about the deal, but I'm also not thinking it's the end of the world.  I'll reserve my judgement until after the games actually start and we see how it all plays out.  

[Sothron]

George Allen = Coach Bud. The Washington Redskins in the 70's had a coach that was infamous for hating rookies and trading away as many draft picks and rookies as he could to get veterans.

 

I'm seeing the same thing here. Bud refused to play Payne, kept Dennis on a string his rookie year and now literally just gave up on the 15th pick to get an inefficient bench scrub from the Knicks. Just so he does not have to coach or play a rookie.

 

Not a good sign.

[Gray Mule]

Hawksquawk fans either say, "Well, maybe Bud knows what he's doing." or they

hate the entire idea.  Sothron calls TH Jr. "An inefficient bench scrub."

 

atlhawks1 lists seven reasons that Bud doesn't know what he's doing and leaves

us to think our coach is just slightly above a moron.

 

Does Bud know more that the fans posting here?  Maybe, just a few of us dummer

ones but not nearly all.  "Woe is us!  We is doomed!"   We've heard that cry from

the fans of the Hawks all the years I've followed them.

 

Now that the draft is history and the Hawks could have done so much better than

they did if only some of the smarter Hawksquawk posters ad been in charge, are

we all going to give up on next season right now, forget the Hawks and find another

team to follow?

 

Not me.  Dumb as I am, I still believe!

 

GO ATLANTA HAWKS !!

[Peoriabird]

Unfortunately Gray Mule, It wasn't just Hawksquawkers disagreeing with what Bud did last night.

[DrReality]

I like the trade. Hardaway better than anyone we could pick at 15. He has been in the league and is a very goog shooter.

Agree. Bud has an eye for talent and can coach him up. He'll walk on and contribute and no rookie could do that. I'm blown away by how Bud goes from COY on this board to a dolt overnight

[Static]

Agree. Bud has an eye for talent and can coach him up. He'll walk on and contribute and no rookie could do that. I'm blown away by how Bud goes from COY on this board to a dolt overnight

 

lol Contribute. THJ will start chucking , making turnovers and giving up easy points then he'll be benched for the rest of the season like Mike Scott or Jenkins.

[Buzzard]

Well said.

 

With Korver not playing until possible January we need a starting  SG to start the season. The SG we picked up is just 6 months older then the rookie PG we traded.

 

Hardaway Jr was playing with a cast of misfits in NY. It was a weak attempt at the triangle offense. I think Hardaway JR can thrive in our system and will be ready contribute in game #1. At just 23 years old he still has upside.

Agree 100% Coach with the dysfunctional Knicks syndrome. Look at what the Knicks had at one time and could not win big with:

 

Chandler, Starting center for the playoff Mavs.

Shumpert and JR Smith, important cogs for the Eastern Conference Champions.

Melo, all world scoring machine.

 

Now we have taken their young SG. I like the odds that Hardaway Jr is going to look just fine in a Hawks uniform. The Knicks felt they needed a PG. We definitely needed a SG and we get two additional 2nds ( Spurs style ) to try and swing for the fences with.  

 

I did not think for a second Kaminsky would be there but had hopes for Winslow, Lyles, Turner, and Booker. I was totally bummed with our draft prospects once they were all gone. Hardaway works for me and he will work in our system too.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

Unfortunately Gray Mule, It wasn't just Hawksquawkers disagreeing with what Bud did last night.

When is the last time ESPN agreed with anything we did? Oh yea, after the fact when we keep on making the playoffs. Eight years and counting.

[Peoriabird]

Agree 100% Coach with the dysfunctional Knicks syndrome. Look at what the Knicks had at one time and could not win big with:

 

Chandler, Starting center for the playoff Mavs.

Shumpert and JR Smith, important cogs for the Eastern Conference Champions.

Melo, all world scoring machine.

 

Now we have taken their young SG. I like the odds that Hardaway Jr is going to look just fine in a Hawks uniform. The Knicks felt they needed a PG. We definitely needed a SG and we get two additional 2nds ( Spurs style ) to try and swing for the fences with.  I did not think for a 2nd Kaminsky would be there but had hopes for Winslow, Lyles, Turner, and Booker. I was totally bummed with our draft prospects once they were all gone. Hardaway works for me and he will work in our system too.

Now Phil Jackson Sucks

[Buzzard]

Now Phil Jackson Sucks

Being a GM is a different animal than coaching. His fiancee told him to coach instead of running a team. One of his favorite former players opted to go elsewhere to coach. I guess you like what the Knicks are doing.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Buzzard

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Well said.

 

With Korver not playing until possible January we need a starting  SG to start the season. The SG we picked up is just 6 months older then the rookie PG we traded.

 

Hardaway Jr was playing with a cast of misfits in NY. It was a weak attempt at the triangle offense. I think Hardaway JR can thrive in our system and will be ready contribute in game #1. At just 23 years old he still has upside.

Very refreshing post, coach. Nice to a few members put things into perspective.

The NBA draft has been a joke for years. No real talent after the first five picks and picking at 15 is throwing darts in a dark room. Timmy Jr has something that no other player in the draft yesterday has - NBA experience. I love the trade and our bench needed scoring. And with Korver out indefinitely and resigning DMC being no given, we needed wing depth and we'd be fooling ourselves if we think Oubre could start day one or even be a bench contributor.

[coachx]

Whaaat??? Korver out til January???

@JayBirdHawk

 

Well, ya.

 

It should not surprise us if the Hawks hold him out of the first 12 - 25 games. The best case scenario, after an achilles rupture, is returning to game action in 6 months. He had surgery on May 27th. That gives you a December 1st return date as the best case scenario.

 

At his age (34) it makes sense to give him an extra month or two to get it right and regain his stroke. What makes him lethal is his constant motion without the ball and running through multiple screens. I want him 100%.

Edited June 26, 2015 by coachx

[tomac]

Nothing wrong with letting the coach pick his own groceries. Player development is key. under Bud, players like Demarre have doubled their scoring output and played smarter basketball. THJ has the tools, now it takes coaching to mold them. He'll be a guy who can go and get his own shot as well. He can be more valueable than anyone who was left on the board. It's not a bad move.

 

As for free agency, if they can pull of signing LMA and re-signing DMC, then we will be highly successfull. We may have to shed a guy like Mike Scott for salary reasons, but we can make up his production. IMHO, LMA is greater than Sap, and would give us a legitimate #1 scoring option. I hope it works out that way.