Hawks a strong candidate for free agent Wesley Johnson

[NBASupes]

He chose the known commodity. LA had Mike D'Antoni, they played an uptempo style, Steve Nash was their PG who was coming back from an injury and it was still LA and the Lakers. It seemed like an easy decision at the time. One I didn't even question. Let's be real, Coach Bud wasn't established yet. He was just coming from San Antonio. He had options. Most players who had options at that time wasn't choosing us like that.

 

His mistake was MDA offense wasn't a fit. Nash barely played that season. They were horrible. He was inconsistent but productive. Then they hired Byron Scott. He was less productive and more inconsistent. The Lakers lost their luster. The Hawks became great. It did seem like this was between Carroll and Johnson and they choose Johnson but he choose LAL.

 

His loss, DMC's gain

[NBASupes]

He chose the known commodity. LA had Mike D'Antoni, they played an uptempo style, Steve Nash was their PG who was coming back from an injury and it was still LA and the Lakers. It seemed like an easy decision at the time. One I didn't even question. Let's be real, Coach Bud wasn't established yet. He was just coming from San Antonio. He had options. Most players who had options at that time wasn't choosing us like that.

 

His mistake was MDA offense wasn't a fit. Nash barely played that season. They were horrible. He was inconsistent but productive. Then they hired Byron Scott. He was less productive and more inconsistent. The Lakers lost their luster. The Hawks became great. It did seem like this was between Carroll and Johnson and they choose Johnson but he choose LAL.

 

His loss, DMC's gain

 

with the status of the current free agent market, this move makes the most sense IMHO. I have never been a fan of Wesley Johnson, but he has physical tools and has always been marred by terrible team situations, so who knows... maybe he's Demarre 2.0

They are different. He's not a junkyard dog. He is an uber athlete good rebounding inconsistent 3/D guy nonetheless. Who knows, he produce at a 10th man level for LA last year. He like THJr wasn't good.

[Guest]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/230903/Wesley-Johnson-Passed-On-Bucks-Hawks-In-Favor-Of-Lakers-System

Anyone else find this ironic? Allegedly it was between Wes and Demarre in 2013 when we were looking for a SF and Wes declined.

2 years later.... we are in a similar situation..... only now Demarre is $60 million richer and Wes is still looking at a similar price range for his contract.

Will he make the same mistake twice?

That's interesting. He must be wondering if he would have had a similar trajectory.

[NBASupes]

Look at this:

 

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/demarre-carroll

 

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/wesley-johnson

 

If you look at their numbers and follow their careers. I want to say nbadraft.net did a great job on the report.

 

As for the rankings, Carroll was seen as a PF/SF while Johnson as a SF.

 

Clearly different paths lead to different results. Johnson started from day 1 and has produced on similar levels compared to today. He has never played on a team who has won more than 27 games in his career. Most of the teams he has been on has been trash.

 

Carroll on the other hand they were right about. He had average potential. He was not NBA ready at all. He had to transition from PF to SF. He played a few minutes as a rookie as a sub then his 2nd year, he barely played and was in the D-League. Carroll improved each year after his 2nd. Landed in the right spot in Utah which gave him solid sub minutes and moved to Atlanta which was a perfect fit for his style and he took off.

 

Both players had different trajectories, Johnson's issue is he never played in a position situation. Forget a perfect one, he hasn't even been in an ideal one. Because of this, it has lead to clear lack of progress in his career regardless of his hard work. Also, it's a testament to Carroll who is one of the hardest workers that has played for the Hawks. As he says, hard work is a skill. From all reports, Wes works hard but maybe his cup is too full in terms of what's needed and it has hampered his progress as a Basketball player. Who knows but he's no longer a blue chip NBA prospect. He's a bust with one foot out of the league and the other saying he's an average pro.

[AtLaS]

We should definitely bring him in, it's a very low risk move that could really pay off.

[Alex]

Not a fan of Wesley's at all. He is a bust through and through. Never should have been picked 4th, but still he's not any good. Maybe he can figure things out here if they do end up signing him. At least players don't come here and just totally stink. So there is room for him or anyone else to grow and get better.

[Flight]

I don't see many situations that could be better for him than our squad unless someone's just waiting to throw some serious cash at him

[DrReality]

If he and Baze played together perhaps he can help recruit him

[atlhawks1]

Some of the hate on this board for a guy who is probably more athletic than ANY current Hawk and plays MONSTER defense, on a BUSTED Laker team. If DMC can come here and play like a allstar, Johnson would come here and play like ALL NBA.  Its like fans in Atlanta are allergic to athletic players, but defended to the end thru analytics the stiff that was Pero Antić..........lmao. You cant make this stuff up.........

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2015 by atlhawks1

[NBASupes]

DMC was average his first year here. I was even questioning if Thabo can come in and start but DMC just kept improving. We have seen little progress from Wes.

 

Rookie- below average, average for a rookie

2nd- Poor

3rd- below average

4th- slightly above below average

5th- below average

 

DMC

Rookie- D-League quality

Soph- D League quality

3rd- D League quality

4th- Below average

5th- Average

6th- Solid and at the end of the season/playoffs was good and a top 10 SF.

 

Carroll came into the NBA positionless and became an all around consistent SF who is a 3 and D specialist as well as a dirty work player.

 

Johnson has been the same player for the most part. He improved but at a minor rate. While Carroll has improved greatly the last three seasons since Utah acquired him.

 

Johnson transitioned to the NBA a lot sooner than Carroll but he's seemed to reach his ceiling while Carroll has reached his and some. Johnson still has potential but I can easily see why most teams wouldn't want to give him more than the vet min if that.

[NBASupes]

Some of the hate on this board for a guy who is probably more athletic than ANY current Hawk and plays MONSTER defense, on a BUSTED Laker team. If DMC can come here and play like a allstar, Johnson would come here and play like ALL NBA.  Its like fans in Atlanta are allergic to athletic players, but defended to the end thru analytics the stiff that was Pero Antić..........lmao. You cant make this stuff up.........

 

 

 

In all fairness, Antić's impact also showed up in film and not just analytics. For all reasoning, Wes Johnson has been below average analytics player for his whole career. Antić in Atlanta has been an above average one even with increased minutes.

[atlhawks1]

In all fairness, Antić's impact also showed up in film and not just analytics. For all reasoning, Wes Johnson has been below average analytics player for his whole career. Antić in Atlanta has been an above average one even with increased minutes.

 

5.7 points, 3 rebounds, and 0.8 assists. THATS the only stat that matters with Pero. Analytics is for bum players to justify them being on a team............

 

You but Johnson in that starting lineup for the Hawks, and he is a allstar. Put him in the hawks SYSTEM, and they going to the NBA finals....

Edited July 5, 2015 by atlhawks1

[kennysATL]

I like this move.  In the long run, think it will payoff even better than the fit & development of DMC in our system.  This season however not sure this move gets us to the promise land, though it surely doesn't hurt.  What we need most of all this season is a healthy Thabo.

 

To these eyes, once he became acclimated to our system & got his rhythm back, the fit between Thabo and the Hawks proved to be deadly.

 

Especially during that undefeated month.  You could see the formula play out game in & game out: Hawks jump out to big lead early in game, enter one Thabo to apply the defensive clamp and the opponent never recovered.  Once Thabo went out, we didn't have that defensive stopper to come in and close-out teams.  Then we saw the script change to Hawks jump out to big lead, opponent gets back into game, then either the Hawks re-group & pull out the win or they don't.  Kind of like the Braves without their vaunted closer or the Falcons without a stout defense.

 

So basically, at the end of last year we were having to win games with 4th quarter heroics & offense down the stretch & in the play-offs, which was not the original script that we patented when Thabo was healthy.

 

I would like to get back to that script.  Also, I would add that we won those games seemingly with a lot less effort regardless of opponent.

 

Bottom line is this dude Wesley will definitely help solve the problem, so we should bring him in & in a year or two he should be a baller, but to get to the promised land this year, we need Thabo in the worst way.

 

Peace to you all.

 

KennysATL

[NBASupes]

I like this move.  In the long run, think it will payoff even better than the fit & development of DMC in our system.  This season however not sure this move gets us to the promise land, though it surely doesn't hurt.  What we need most of all this season is a healthy Thabo.

 

To these eyes, once he became acclimated to our system & got his rhythm back, the fit between Thabo and the Hawks proved to be deadly.

 

Especially during that undefeated month.  You could see the formula play out game in & game out: Hawks jump out to big lead early in game, enter one Thabo to apply the defensive clamp and the opponent never recovered.  Once Thabo went out, we didn't have that defensive stopper to come in and close-out teams.  Then we saw the script change to Hawks jump out to big lead, opponent gets back into game, then either the Hawks re-group & pull out the win or they don't.  Kind of like the Braves without their vaunted closer or the Falcons without a stout defense.

 

So basically, at the end of last year we were having to win games with 4th quarter heroics & offense down the stretch & in the play-offs, which was not the original script that we patented when Thabo was healthy.

 

I would like to get back to that script.  Also, I would add that we won those games seemingly with a lot less effort regardless of opponent.

 

Bottom line is this dude Wesley will definitely help solve the problem, so we should bring him in & in a year or two he should be a baller, but to get to the promised land this year, we need Thabo in the worst way.

 

Peace to you all.

 

KennysATL

While we do need Thabo, we need Thabo in his role. Being a 7th man off the bench playing on the wing. Thabo starting is not what we need. All of our starters have to be two way players or we become unbalanced offensively and we start to lose our impact as a team.

[AtLaS]

DMC was average his first year here. I was even questioning if Thabo can come in and start but DMC just kept improving. We have seen little progress from Wes.

 

Rookie- below average, average for a rookie

2nd- Poor

3rd- below average

4th- slightly above below average

5th- below average

 

DMC

Rookie- D-League quality

Soph- D League quality

3rd- D League quality

4th- Below average

5th- Average

6th- Solid and at the end of the season/playoffs was good and a top 10 SF.

 

Carroll came into the NBA positionless and became an all around consistent SF who is a 3 and D specialist as well as a dirty work player.

 

Johnson has been the same player for the most part. He improved but at a minor rate. While Carroll has improved greatly the last three seasons since Utah acquired him.

 

Johnson transitioned to the NBA a lot sooner than Carroll but he's seemed to reach his ceiling while Carroll has reached his and some. Johnson still has potential but I can easily see why most teams wouldn't want to give him more than the vet min if that.

 

This does nothing to convince me that we shouldn't sign WJ.  He will come very cheap, whats the risk?  There really aren't better options out there IMO, and our system is light years better than any situation WJ has ever played.

[NBASupes]

This does nothing to convince me that we shouldn't sign WJ.  He will come very cheap, whats the risk?  There really aren't better options out there IMO, and our system is light years better than any situation WJ has ever played.

This is not to convince you either way. This is simply posting up his progress based on his overall analytics throughout his career.

[kennysATL]

Fair point Supes.  

 

Part of the winning formula we patented was bringing Thabo in after we had the lead to apply fresh legs & unyielding defensive pressure.  Any points he made were icing on the cake so to speak. So I will say you make a fair point.  Perhaps the more offensive minded Wesley will help in this regard (assuming we are able to land him).

 

In my view, anything that will help us get back to our winning formula should be the off-season mission of the FO.  So to not at least investigate the Wesley signing would be tantamount to dereliction of duty, which is not Coach Bud's MO.

[NBASupes]

Fair point Supes.  

 

Part of the winning formula we patented was bringing Thabo in after we had the lead to apply fresh legs & unyielding defensive pressure.  Any points he made were icing on the cake so to speak. So I will say you make a fair point.  Perhaps the more offensive minded Wesley will help in this regard (assuming we are able to land him).

 

In my view, anything that will help us get back to our winning formula should be the off-season mission of the FO.  So to not at least investigate the Wesley signing would be tantamount to dereliction of duty, which is not Coach Bud's MO.

You're a pretty good poster. Welcome on board my brother.

Edited July 5, 2015 by NBASupes

[AtLaS]

This is not to convince you either way. This is simply posting up his progress based on his overall analytics throughout his career.

 

Ahh OK, it seemed as if you were building a case for not signing him.  The fact is we should absolutely take a flyer on this guy for what he would cost IMO.  I just can't come up with a reason we shouldn't and more depth is always welcome.

[kennysATL]

No worries Supes & thanks for the good vibes, much appreciated, being a nubie and all 

 

Been following you guys for awhile now, since I'm a long suffering Hawks fan.  There are a lot of good posters on this board including yourself.  Been keeping pretty busy so always figured I didn't have enough time to post... but after the kind of year my boys put up this year, couldn't stay away any longer.

 

I find that often (although not always) in debates, both sides typically have something of value to say. It just seems that some folks calibrate their scales a little differently than other folks, so they will give more weight to one element of an argument while the other side might give more weight to another element of the argument.  I try to see both sides, although not always successful - LOL.

 

Peace & Blessings and it's good to finally be a apart of the team.

 

Brother - KennysATL