Player measurements spreadsheet

[benhillboy]

There's no way I believe Mack's verticals are higher than Jeff and Baze until I see it, and even then I'll be skeptical. I'm sure it wasn't RandomFan's error, but it had to be a mix-up with those adjacent columns with Baze and Mack.

No coincidence Money Mike has the least drastic difference in height and wingspan as our worst defender. I'm surprised he's still here actually.

My wingspan is pretty impressive if I do say so at 5 1/4 over my height. Unfortunately I'm skinny as a rail and dribble like I'm special, but will murder you in behind the rim HORSE shots.

Edited July 16, 2015 by benhillboy

[JETSET]

I find it interesting that Korver and Hardaway Jr. seem to have a lower ratio of wingspan compared to height vs every one else and they are supposed to be our two best shooters.  I wonder if there is any correlation there.

 

and I guess the old adage that white men can't jump is true after all.

[benhillboy]

I find it interesting that Korver and Hardaway Jr. seem to have a lower ratio of wingspan compared to height vs every one else and they are supposed to be our two best shooters. I wonder if there is any correlation there.

and I guess the old adage that white men can't jump is true after all.

Shooting mechanics is a fascinating study. A shorter ratio could be good for many, but then someone like KD comes along and shreds that hypothesis. I'm pretty sure Steph has relatively long arms as well.

The labs they put these guys in now for training and analysis are crazy. Kyle famously had the 20 point checklist for his shot, scientists probably have twice or thrice as many.

And I kinda see why the brass just threw their hands in the air with Payne. His shot just isn't economical. I've never seen someone who's missed free throws bang and rattle hard off the rim so often. Maybe too much to try to correct in his motion, Bud said "f it".

Edited July 16, 2015 by benhillboy

[NBASupes]

Shooting mechanics is a fascinating study. A shorter ratio could be good for many, but then someone like KD comes along and shreds that hypothesis. I'm pretty sure Steph has relatively long arms as well.

The labs they put these guys in now for training and analysis are crazy. Kyle famously had the 20 point checklist for his shot, scientists probably have twice or thrice as many.

And I kinda see why the brass just threw their hands in the air with Payne. His shot just isn't economical. I've never seen someone who's missed free throws bang and rattle hard off the rim so often. Maybe too much to try to correct in his motion, Bud said "f it".

I doubt it was that, it likely had to do with the fact that he couldn't comprehend the system.

[RandomFan]

I find it interesting that Korver and Hardaway Jr. seem to have a lower ratio of wingspan compared to height vs every one else and they are supposed to be our two best shooters.  I wonder if there is any correlation there.

 

and I guess the old adage that white men can't jump is true after all.

 

I think you left off Scott, Muscala, and Splitter from that list too. Especially Muscala. But the oddity is Splitter, because even with a limited wingspan ratio he is still an exceptional defender.

 

Regarding Korver and Hardaway, I think it's more that they made it into the league with their offense. While Korver has gotten much better at D over the years, he's still limited physically on that end, and always will be. Much like Hardaway probably will be; although Hardaway does have much better athleticism than Korver did - so who knows how much better he can really get.

 

The guys like Baze and Holiday, they have to have the wingspan and the defensive ability. That is what has gotten them into the NBA. I don't think it's really correlational with wingspan and shooting. It's just that the shorter armed guys don't have to be great defenders if they can score when coming in; and the guys that make it primarily on defense are more likely to have that long wingspan to help them in that area.

[Blunt91]

It is really about quickness and stamina.  Sap can't handle big minutes at the 3 chasing people around screens over 82 games.  He is built more like a tank than a lean wing.  JJ and Pierce were quicker in their prime.  Pierce can barely play SF now, though, for much the same reason.  He is more a spread PF at this point in his career.

 

I don't think there is any chance you'll see Sap playing a regular significant role at SF barring some disastrous series of injuries for our team.

Yeah I looked up Millsap's weight during his time at the combine. The guy weighed 258lbs!!!  That is almost the weight of the average center in the league.  I guess Millsap has large legs where as guys like lebron and Joe are bigger in the upper body.

[Guest]

Yeah I looked up Millsap's weight during his time at the combine. The guy weighed 258lbs!!! That is almost the weight of the average center in the league. I guess Millsap has large legs where as guys like lebron and Joe are bigger in the upper body.

So SAP is bigger in the lower body region...that's got excite @kg01

[RandomFan]

Lamar Patterson =

 

Height - 6' 4"

Weight - 226

Wingspan - 6' 11"

Standing Reach - 8' 5"

No Step Vert - 27.5

Max Vert - 32.5

[DS17Fanboy]

I know close to nothing about physiology of human beings and what the average ratio between height and wingspan is for the general population. It seems clear that in the NBA, this ratio is going to be different. It's also the case that if wingspan is an important characteristic for basketball players and the NBA uses wingspan as a selection criteria, then performance and wingspan are going to be fairly uncorrelated. So by looking at the NBA, it would appear that wingspan isn't important. About the same type of funky result happens if you think about height. Height is clearly an important factor getting to the NBA, but once in the NBA the correlation between height and scoring is meh. Kind of weak from what I recall seeing. It's a cool phenomenon called Berkson's Paradox.

Here's some background for what I am referring to and in order of complexity:

https://scatter.wordpress.com/2014/12/30/selection/

https://scatter.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/that-nba-example/

https://scatter.wordpress.com/2015/01/03/beckieball-and-the-study-of-not-quite-elite-selected-groups/

The average human's wingspan is about the same as his height. Usualy a few inches wider though, but not much. NBA player wingspans are freak wingspans. Playing the sport itself allot do cause longer arms, muscles, fingers etc, but there are also lots of excercises to really get where NBA athletes are.

[DS17Fanboy]

Yeah I looked up Millsap's weight during his time at the combine. The guy weighed 258lbs!!!  That is almost the weight of the average center in the league.  I guess Millsap has large legs where as guys like lebron and Joe are bigger in the upper body.

That first step though getting him all these steals...but after that its all straight-line-drives.

[DJlaysitup]

I believe the height vs wingspan (as a rule) comes down to the percentage of Neanderthal DNA a person has in them.  Recent research has shown that all humans have a range of between 0 and 4% Neanderthal DNA.  Personally, I am on the higher side (therefor my short arms).

 

Latest NBA advanced metrics for drafting purposes show a 1.20 to 1.60 Neanderthal DNA %age is the best, although there have been some great players without any Nean-DNA.  Anything above 3.0 is a warning sign for player personnel folks.

[DJlaysitup]

Note: It is rumored that Delly tested in the high 3's 

[JonKoncak]

I only have a 5'11 wingspan lol.. This is crazy

[RandomFan]

It's interesting to compare Kawhi Leonard with Sefolosha.

 

Kawhi =

 

Height - 6' 6" - Thabo = same

Wingspan - 7' 3" - Thabo = minus 1"

Standing reach - 8' 10" - Thabo = Plus 1.5"

[Randy]

Aw man, my wingspan is only 1.0x my height.  I'm a Neanderthal.  DJ I wish you hadn't brought this up.  I wasn't going to try it, but it was easy that a cave man could do it.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Randy

[AHF]

This thread is begging for a Phil Hartman appearance.

[benhillboy]

It's interesting to compare Kawhi Leonard with Sefolosha.

Kawhi =

Height - 6' 6" - Thabo = same

Wingspan - 7' 3" - Thabo = minus 1"

Standing reach - 8' 10" - Thabo = Plus 1.5"

Thabo is truly a freak. He has the absolute perfect build for a perimeter defender. He's basically Kawhi with a little less strength. Leonard's hands dwarf damn every other wing's hands in history besides Jordan and still only has a slight edge in span over Thabo.

Leonard is like Jordan in that you simply can't dribble twice facing them anywhere on the floor. That's usually a break-away dunk going the other way with their hand size coupled with cat-like quickness. You can see the fear in the eyes of people bringing the ball up against him and their preoccupation with protecting the ball over surveying the floor. We got away from a lot of that after Dennis got injured, I swear he pressured full-court half as much as he did before. It's imperative to our attack, not the same team without it.

Thabo rather just lock you up and stop dribble with angles and his length when he gets you squared to minimize reaching fouls, but will attack lesser handlers. That's what killed us so much in the playoffs: clear passing lanes from the middle of the floor damn near doubled without the hired gun we could throw at multiple positions and situations. Our high screen defense was just atrocious. I think Bradley Beal just hit another wide open 15-footer.

Edited July 18, 2015 by benhillboy

[sturt]

So SAP is bigger in the lower body region...that's got excite @kg01

 

I laughed @kg01, but I felt guilty doing it.

[DS17Fanboy]

I laughed @kg01, but I felt guilty doing it.

Im kind of the same way having huge ham's naturally but further developed playing soccer. Laugh all you want, but those ham's have a long history of making GF's happy hitting all those hard to reach angles continually.

[Guest]

Im kind of the same way having huge ham's naturally but further developed playing soccer. Laugh all you want, but those ham's have a long history of making GF's happy hitting all those hard to reach angles continually.

Ummmmmmmmmmmm.....