Denny's J

[benhillboy]

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2015/12/8/9869494/dennis-Schröder-atlanta-hawks-panic-jump-shot

Short answer, yeah.

[Lurker]

Long answer, this:

Dennis Schröder has been struggling to adjust to the scouting report on him. He’s taking 3.5 3PA a game and making them at below 30%, and since teams are playing him to drive he’s also struggling to finish at the rim. Most of the time, his running of an offense has been pretty poor. It’s been Harden like, in which every move is late in the shot clock and it either leads to him bricking a shot, a turnover, or a teammate not expecting the pass from him and turning it over or throwing up a wild shot.

I'll say it again, if Schröder was average when he had to start, Atlanta likely beats Utah and Brooklyn. So the Schröder situation has already proven very costly.

[macdaddy]

Seems like he's jacking shots that aren't good shots.   It's not like he's missing great looks.   He seems determined to shoot himself out of it but he ain't kyle.   He needs to more selective and it will start to come to him. 

[Jody23]

The fact that neither Jeff or Dennis has a reliable outside shot is concerning.  Teams will continue to go under on the screens daring them to shoot.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Seems like he's jacking shots that aren't good shots.   It's not like he's missing great looks.   He seems determined to shoot himself out of it but he ain't kyle.   He needs to more selective and it will start to come to him. 

IIRC to start the season his shooting was ok. Then when he started his numbers went in the tank.

[DS17Fanboy]

I dont worry to much fundamentally. He spend allot of time this off-season with KK. Adjusting your game often bites back in the short-run on the center-stage of pro-basketball. Last year Dirk worked on a quicker release so his faltering athleticism doesnt have to do as much work to get shots up. That looked ugly as hell for great stretches. This year it looks great, but he also looks more athletic than last year though, so I think he realized he cant just let athleticism slip away. I think its quite similar with Dennis. He atm tries to mesh parts of his game he masters with parts he doesnt, so also things he masters(or isnt particulary bad at) go wrong because he isnt doing those things from a place of comfort. You can also see this in his lay-ups. He misses allot of those as well. B-Ball is very much mental. I hope he can get it together. Time will tell. He needs trust though and play.

[Diesel]

Im not buying that R-E-L-A-X  statement that Dennis fans give in this case.  The scouting report have gone out and teams are backing up and daring him to shoot.   HIs mentality is that he's going to take the shot.   It's cool if he can hit that shot, but he's shooting less than 30% from 3.  For a guy that doesn't like to work within the offense and whoose main strength is the speed of his drive, he becomes Harold Miner pretty easily for us.   It's time for a return of the Mack!!

 

[Lurker]

15 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Im not buying that R-E-L-A-X  statement that Dennis fans give in this case.  The scouting report have gone out and teams are backing up and daring him to shoot.   HIs mentality is that he's going to take the shot.   It's cool if he can hit that shot, but he's shooting less than 30% from 3.  For a guy that doesn't like to work within the offense and whoose main strength is the speed of his drive, he becomes Harold Miner pretty easily for us.   It's time for a return of the Mack!!

 

Here’s the thing with that, Mack mainly looks to get his too. Way I see it is he’s a chucker with solid to good defense. Schröder is a chucker with average to sometimes well below average defense right now.

If Mack is hot, he should be ridden, but the only advantages with him are defense and very little turnovers. If he isn’t, there’s a threat of him shooting Atlanta out of it.

One more thing: Atlanta can't play within the offense all of the time anymore because of two seasons of tape on them. Reporters have said it, and I've seen it.

[AUhawksfan]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

Here’s the thing with that, Mack mainly looks to get his too. Way I see it is he’s a chucker with solid to good defense. Schröder is a chucker with average to sometimes well below average defense right now.

If Mack is hot, he should be ridden, but the only advantages with him are defense and very little turnovers. If he isn’t, there’s a threat of him shooting Atlanta out of it.

One more thing: Atlanta can't play within the offense all of the time anymore because of two seasons of tape on them. Reporters have said it, and I've seen it.

This is why I say we give Lamar some more minutes at the PG position.  Mack holds the ball too long like Dennis at times.  Lamar actually has some decent handles and passing, I'm curious to see how he'd do.

[benhillboy]

4 hours ago, DS17Fanboy said:

 Adjusting your game often bites back in the short-run on the center-stage of pro-basketball. 

Good point and something a lot of fans forget or lose sight of.  

On the flip side though, there's no shortage of players who do adjust and come out the gate improved like Fournier and McCullogh vastly improving their overall 2 skill set or Paul George repeatedly throwing up prayers that are somehow answered from three.  

I hope you're right and it all clicks for him soon.  I'm sure the coaching staff still has the highest confidence in him.  It's just very concerning that neither of our PGs are particularly excelling at defending full and disrupting their counterpart's sets, open jump-shooting, or setting the table for teammates after they looked like world-beaters for stretches last year (still trying to forget and move on to this year but it's hard). Those are the main duties in the job description IMO.  

Point blank, his form doesn't look good and the rest of the team gets pissed when he settles.  It's the old Josh Smith conundrum: "I'm so open this has to be a good shot, but why am I so open in the first place?   F$&k it, I'm getting mine." (followed by a clank and opposition transition)

[macdaddy]

I think Mack "getting his" is a little undeserved rep he got at the end of last year because Bud was playing him at the 2.   Which isn't his thing.   He seems fine as a backup PG.   I actually think Dennis' D is his best asset at this point.  

[Lurker]

I’ll actually go as far as to say this. The only really big differences between last season and this season so far are two of the top 7 players on the team have crashed back to earth in their play, and a minor difference that may be nothing due to a few difficult matchups recently and him having to defend PGs on a not 100% ankle (at least early when he came back, like the first few games) is a non-Kyle Korver starter’s defense has been really bad (and no this also isn’t Al Horford).

All three are fixable, but the first one almost requires a trade if said player can’t get their 3 point shooting up to 45% or above again because if he can’t, it’s really not worth it to play him 30 or more minutes.

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I’ll actually go as far as to say this. The only really big differences between last season and this season so far are two of the top 7 players on the team have crashed back to earth in their play, and a minor difference that may be nothing due to a few difficult matchups recently and him having to defend PGs on a not 100% ankle (at least early when he came back, like the first few games) is a non-Kyle Korver starter’s defense has been really bad (and no this also isn’t Al Horford).

All three are fixable, but the first one almost requires a trade if said player can’t get their 3 point shooting up to 45% or above again because if he can’t, it’s really not worth it to play him 30 or more minutes.

I'm going to assume I don't understand what you're talking about.   If I do understand then I say "what are you talking about".    You don't think Korver at 43% (where he currently stands) is valuable?   45% is ridiculous.   Exactly one player shot over 45% for last year:  Kyle Korver.   So is your point that unless he can lead the league in 3 point shooting by a considerable margin then he's not worth playing 30 minutes?     I think that would make opposing coaches job a lot easier.

[Lurker]

19 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

You don't think Korver at 43% (where he currently stands) is valuable?

Well he was at that mark in the latter half of last season and Atlanta struggled a lot in it.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Lurker

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

Here’s the thing with that, Mack mainly looks to get his too. Way I see it is he’s a chucker with solid to good defense. Schröder is a chucker with average to sometimes well below average defense right now.

If Mack is hot, he should be ridden, but the only advantages with him are defense and very little turnovers. If he isn’t, there’s a threat of him shooting Atlanta out of it.

One more thing: Atlanta can't play within the offense all of the time anymore because of two seasons of tape on them. Reporters have said it, and I've seen it.

All I know is that San Antonio has been playing the same way for the last 15 years.   Everybody knows what's coming... There are no surprises, it's just that you have to execute.  When Dennis is in the game, he refuses to execute.   Before, he could get away with speeding past his man for a layup.  Now, his man drops back a little and there's somebody waiting for him in the paint.... Blocked Shot.  So the only thing left is for him to shoot.  Well, he's not a great shooter, so, he's useless.  Mack can get hot.. but more importantly, Mack will run the offense.  That's what being on the bench does to you.  It makes you think... when I get my chance, I will do whatever coach says.   Right now, Dennis doesn't  have that pressure because of what his skillset is.  however, it's not working for him right now.  At some point, it would help him to run the offense.

 

 

[Diesel]

If you all want to get to the problem.. then stop looking at Kyle.   He's only as effective as we can make him.   Al has to produce and when Dennis is in the game, he has to be productive on offense.  We have wasted offense.  Our efficiency is in the tank.  Some of it is guard shooting.  Some of it is just an inability to run the offense.  At any rate, we can have inefficiency and Al not playing solid defense.

DMC hid a multitude of issues.

 

[Lurker]

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

  Al has to produce

Stopped right here.

 

The problem is expecting more from Al than what he is. He can't create his own shot off the dribble or in the post, the ONLY thing he does well is pnr and pnp. Think it's far enough into his career to say he's not much more than a 15-16 and 8 big unless its in big minutes....so he's doing what he usually does.

 

The only guys that can create their own offense in the starting lineup are Teague and Millsap, everyone else can't.

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I think Mack "getting his" is a little undeserved rep he got at the end of last year because Bud was playing him at the 2.   Which isn't his thing.   He seems fine as a backup PG.   I actually think Dennis' D is his best asset at this point.  

Mack moves the ball, you know, early when the team runs that weave on the top of the perimeter to start a possession but if it finds its way back into his hands during the same possession then it's going up, come hell or high water.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Stopped right here.

 

The problem is expecting more from Al than what he is. He can't create his own shot off the dribble or in the post, the ONLY thing he does well is pnr and pnp. Think it's far enough into his career to say he's not much more than a 15-16 and 8 big unless its in big minutes....so he's doing what he usually does.

 

The only guys that can create their own offense in the starting lineup are Teague and Millsap, everyone else can't.

Nobody us expecting Al to be more than what he is, and magically reinvent himself, we expect him to produce doing what he is good at and do it CONSISTENTLY - 5pts, 3 rebs is not what we expect. His activity on both offense and defense is what I expect,  not 'Cement boots' Al. Teams know that he's good at the midrange and he's added the 3 ball so they are flying at him, he us quick enough to put it on the floor and get to the rim. He just doesn't do it often enough.

[Jody23]

Despite his limitations, pretty sure there's a good reason why Dennis plays over Mack.