Paying Horford (vs) Letting Horford walk (vs) Making a trade

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The pros/cons of all 3 need to be weighed.

1) Paying Horford

Hawks need to decide on a number they want to pay Horford, and stick with it.  That number doesn't have to be the max, but probably more than Millsap, due to the cap going up significantly the next 2 years.  Some have suggested a shorter 3 yr deal for more money, which might be the way to go.

 

2) Letting Horford Walk

One of the things not being talked about enough, is simply letting Horford walk, if the asking price is too high.  If that's the case, the Hawks will have enough cap space to add 2 or more quality veteran players.  This may very well be a better option than maxing him out or making a bad or forced trade.

 

3) Making a Trade

This is option talked about the most.  If a trade can be made that helps the Hawks, that's great.  If it's a trade just to say that you got something back, that's probably not good.  

 

The most important thing is that the Hawks shouldn't feel pressured to do anything they don't want to do.  This is not a life and death, or franchise changing decision that will be made here, unless it's a total dismantling of the team.

Horford is a player that should be coveted and treated like he's an integral part of the team.  And in my opinion, it's always better to keep talent, than to give it aways for pennies on the dollar.

But if you decide to part ways with him, the Hawks better make sure that they can be savvy enough to add the type of pieces that makes the team even better.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Case in point, the failed Nique/Manning trade.  That fiasco could've crippled the Hawks for years.   But it didn't.

Despite the Pete Babcock led front office not being good at finding mid 1st round talent in the draft, they were actually good with trading and finding/signing free agents.

 

1994:  traded Kevin Willis + 1st round pick, for Steve Smith + Grant Long.  This was the Hawks completely dismantling their longtime Nique/Willis frontline, and going with a backcourt led team of Mookie/Smitty

 

1996:  traded for Christian Laettner ( gave them Spud Webb and Andrew Lang ), which was essentially taking advantage of the Twolves friction between Laettner, Garnett ( who was a rookie ) and Flip Saunders (RIP).  Laettner was a high lottery pick that was good, but not a superstar franchise changing talent.  

 

1996:  signed free agent Dikembe Mutombo.  This was the Hawks taking advantage of the rising NBA salary cap, combined with Denver not being able to ( or wanting to ) clear room to sign Dikembe.  The Hawks did though, by trading Grant Long and Stacey Augmon.

 

So in three years, the Hawks went from a core of Nique - Willis - Blaylock - Augmon in 1994 ... to a core of Smith - Dikembe -  Blaylock - Laettner in 1997.  

The 1994 team won 57 games and got the #1 seed in the East ( post-Jordan retirement )

The 1997 team won 56 games but were only the #4 seed in the East.  They were one of the best Hawks teams of all time, but lost to the 2nd best team in NBA history ( Chicago ) in the 2nd round.

The Smitty - Mookie - Dikembe trio had 3 high quality seasons together, but couldn't get past the better teams in the East.

Sometimes, it doesn't matter what you do.  Without the super elite talent, you're simply better off just trying to do what you can to win and keep hope alive, rather than chasing lottery ghosts year after year.

 

[NBASupes]

But it did cripple the franchise,  they were near contenders with Nique and just good without him. Sorry bro but there is no chance in hell you have at convincing me that trading Horford or letting him walk is any good. None. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

No it didn't cripple us.  Babcock rebuilt the team quite nicely after the Nique trade and Manning leaving.  That 56 win team in 1997 could very well be a 60+ win team in today's NBA.  But they not only had to battle Chicago, they had to deal with Miami and the NY Knicks as well.

The Hawks proved that they could replace JJ and Smith with a decent committee of players.  The same can be done with Horford.

I love Horford as a player.  But he's not untouchable.  And a good front office that knows how to construct a team, can fill a void left by him.  It's been done plenty of times in this league.

[benhillboy]

I'll refuse to follow, let alone patronize the Hawks next season if they pay Al twice as much as Steph.  I don't give a damn what the cap balloons to.  I've already watched Joe Johnson earn more than Peak LeBron.  

There doesn't seem to be a feasible trade since Ainge knows he isn't nearly worth the Net's pick, Lee's expiring, and re-signing negotiations.  Let that dude get his DJ Unk on so he can shoot 0 FTs somewhere where they don't know how important playoff foul drawing is.

Ferry knew flexibility was immensely more advantageous than the fringe-All-Star game Joe brought to the floor, same as Al.  

Wilcox seems like a smart enough guy.  I'm guessing he isn't even entertaining an extension, which is why we're hearing all the rumors.  

I was especially irked by the report he wants to play somewhere with "a large Dominican fan base."  What, winning isn't the main priority?  Let Miami and NY battle for him this summer while we quietly upgrade our entire roster.  

Bud could make True Centers like Jokic or Ezeli into great starters and save 8 figures for the perfect wing.  You know they ain't thinking about giving Baze 4 years, 47 mil.  Turning 1 "very good" player into 2 "good" ones like Ferry did seems pretty simple and intelligent to me.  

Don't we already have an All Star PF (who boards better and draws fouls better than Al) under contract for another year anyway?  I really don't see the point.  I'd rather watch a "rebuild" with more traditional positioning up front, in which case Bud would still push them toward the 8th seed.  Just prime yourselves to compete when GS's good fortune runs dry and make a run at Towns.

[BackForThe2ndTime]

Al has to go either now or this summer. Ask yourself. If we pay him the max, what are we going to get from him that he hasn't already given us? The problem we have with rebounds is one we can't keep ignoring. Add that to the fact that this team refuses to play Horford at the 4 and it's a wrap folks. He has to go and he is not a max player for this team. Maybe for another, but not this one. 

[Jody23]

You should give contracts based on what you think guys will give you going forward.  Not on what they've done in the past.  In the end, you're giving 25mill per yr. to a guy averaging 15 and 7.  A substantial part of your cap for 15 and 7.

[BackForThe2ndTime]

3 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

You should give contracts based on what you think guys will give you going forward.  Not on what they've done in the past.  In the end, you're giving 25mill per yr. to a guy averaging 15 and 7.  A substantial part of your cap for 15 and 7.

I'm really not sure if you're arguing for or against keeping him. My point is what he gives us now isn't worth that and so what's to come sure as hell isn't worth it.

[HawkItus]

No this reminds of Smitty and Dikembe trades.  We got destroyed in those trades.  And both our guys helped other teams to the finals.

[Jody23]

43 minutes ago, BackForThe2ndTime said:

I'm really not sure if you're arguing for or against keeping him. My point is what he gives us now isn't worth that and so what's to come sure as hell isn't worth it.

To be clear, for a team that's not a contender, I don't see giving him the max as a good thing.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, HawkItus said:

No this reminds of Smitty and Dikembe trades.  We got destroyed in those trades.  And both our guys helped other teams to the finals.

If we make a bad deal, this is exactly right.

 

[Watchman]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

But it did cripple the franchise,  they were near contenders with Nique and just good without him. Sorry bro but there is no chance in hell you have at convincing me that trading Horford or letting him walk is any good. None. 

We had virtually the exact the same winning percentage with Manning that we did with Nique.  After Manning walked, that crippled the franchise.

[BigDog90]

11 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I'll refuse to follow, let alone patronize the Hawks next season if they pay Al twice as much as Steph.  I don't give a damn what the cap balloons to.  I've already watched Joe Johnson earn more than Peak LeBron.  

There doesn't seem to be a feasible trade since Ainge knows he isn't nearly worth the Net's pick, Lee's expiring, and re-signing negotiations.  Let that dude get his DJ Unk on so he can shoot 0 FTs somewhere where they don't know how important playoff foul drawing is.

Ferry knew flexibility was immensely more advantageous than the fringe-All-Star game Joe brought to the floor, same as Al.  

Wilcox seems like a smart enough guy.  I'm guessing he isn't even entertaining an extension, which is why we're hearing all the rumors.  

I was especially irked by the report he wants to play somewhere with "a large Dominican fan base."  What, winning isn't the main priority?  Let Miami and NY battle for him this summer while we quietly upgrade our entire roster.  

Bud could make True Centers like Jokic or Ezeli into great starters and save 8 figures for the perfect wing.  You know they ain't thinking about giving Baze 4 years, 47 mil.  Turning 1 "very good" player into 2 "good" ones like Ferry did seems pretty simple and intelligent to me.  

Don't we already have an All Star PF (who boards better and draws fouls better than Al) under contract for another year anyway?  I really don't see the point.  I'd rather watch a "rebuild" with more traditional positioning up front, in which case Bud would still push them toward the 8th seed.  Just prime yourselves to compete when GS's good fortune runs dry and make a run at Towns.

Jokic is under contract. Ezeli got knee problems. I could see ATL starting Splitter and signing Seraphin/Speights as backup center.

I can't see Towns leaving MINN, maybe after his inevitable rookie max contract ends but that won't be until the next decade.

[BigDog90]

11 hours ago, BackForThe2ndTime said:

Al has to go either now or this summer. Ask yourself. If we pay him the max, what are we going to get from him that he hasn't already given us? The problem we have with rebounds is one we can't keep ignoring. Add that to the fact that this team refuses to play Horford at the 4 and it's a wrap folks. He has to go and he is not a max player for this team. Maybe for another, but not this one. 

I could see him being a better 3 point shooter, maybe be like a post prime Rasheed Wallace.

[Diesel]

On 2/16/2016 at 10:45 AM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The pros/cons of all 3 need to be weighed.

1) Paying Horford

Hawks need to decide on a number they want to pay Horford, and stick with it.  That number doesn't have to be the max, but probably more than Millsap, due to the cap going up significantly the next 2 years.  Some have suggested a shorter 3 yr deal for more money, which might be the way to go.

 

2) Letting Horford Walk

One of the things not being talked about enough, is simply letting Horford walk, if the asking price is too high.  If that's the case, the Hawks will have enough cap space to add 2 or more quality veteran players.  This may very well be a better option than maxing him out or making a bad or forced trade.

 

3) Making a Trade

This is option talked about the most.  If a trade can be made that helps the Hawks, that's great.  If it's a trade just to say that you got something back, that's probably not good.  

 

The most important thing is that the Hawks shouldn't feel pressured to do anything they don't want to do.  This is not a life and death, or franchise changing decision that will be made here, unless it's a total dismantling of the team.

Horford is a player that should be coveted and treated like he's an integral part of the team.  And in my opinion, it's always better to keep talent, than to give it aways for pennies on the dollar.

But if you decide to part ways with him, the Hawks better make sure that they can be savvy enough to add the type of pieces that makes the team even better.

The only problem with letting Horf Walk is not knowing how much the cap hike is going to inflate salaries.

I don't want to see us put down 21 Million on Tyson Chandler.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

The only problem with letting Horf Walk is not knowing how much the cap hike is going to inflate salaries.

I don't want to see us put down 21 Million on Tyson Chandler.

Well Chandler is locked up until 2018 at approximately $13 million per year, so that won't happen.

[Hawkmoor]

Look. If the Hawks Max Horford, i can't see how this team would be in a position to BETTER themselves, next year, or the year after. For a team that SAYS its about TEAM ball, why should they tie a chunk of money up into one player, who CANT take you to a higher level. You max Horford, you say goodbye for AT LEAST 5-7 years of any chance of getting another big time player in Atlanta.  Critics will say " but you wanna max Howard."  I say: " even at this stage, Howard is a better fit for Sap than Horford, AND, Howard can attrack free agents to Atlanta.  Players are not lining up to play with Horford to get a ring.

I have no problem resigning him, but not at a max deal. No way.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Hawkmoor

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

Look. If the Hawks Max Horford, i can't see how this team would be in a position to BETTER themselves, next year, or the year after. For a team that SAYS its about TEAM ball, why should they tie a chunk of money up into one player, who CANT take you to a higher level. You max Horford, you say goodbye for AT LEAST 5-7 years of any chance of getting another big time player in Atlanta.  Critics will say " but you wanna max Howard."  I say: " even at this stage, Howard is a better fit for Sap than Horford, AND, Howard can attrack free agents to Atlanta.  Players are not lining up to play with Horford to get a ring.

I have no problem resigning him, but not at a max deal. No way.

Howard can't attract flies to shit.

[Guest]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Howard can't attract flies to shit.

As the kids say....that's for real for real...(in association with Mobb Deep productions...)...:-|

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Howard can't attract flies to shit.

Damn ..

 I had the exact same thought.  Scary.