NOT SO FAST!....HORFORD STILL A POSSIBILITY

[JTB]

 

[Lurker]

He comes down from a five year full max, he'll have a deal in hand. If he doesn't, he's gone from what Zach Lowe has said.

[sturt]

I'm someone who tries to appreciate that I don't know what I don't know, but in this case, what I don't know is whether there is any semblance of a plan in all of this toward any desired purposeful final result. I get it that free agency is a fast-moving, difficult to navigate free-for-all Black Thursday of sorts (without any discounts, of course). But it just seems if you want Horf, you take care of him first, then if you want Dwight plus Baze, you make the trades necessry to shed salary after that first move in order to keep them... no? This just feels too random. Holding out hope that it makes sense later... or at least makes some sense later.

[Buzzard]

8 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'm someone who tries to appreciate that I don't know what I don't know, but in this case, what I don't know is whether there is any semblance of a plan in all of this toward any desired purposeful final result. I get it that free agency is a fast-moving, difficult to navigate free-for-all Black Thursday of sorts (without any discounts, of course). But it just seems if you want Horf, you take care of him first, then if you want Dwight plus Baze, you make the trades necessry to shed salary after that first move in order to keep them... no? This just feels too random. Holding out hope that it makes sense later... or at least makes some sense later.

Horford's cap hold is only 18 million, Bazemore was I think only 6 million. No matter what we do, we had to sign new players 1st because Horford and Baze will be signing for more than their cap holds.

Early bird rights, we can sign Horford to a max any time we want. The question for management is, do we want to? I think we should as we will be facing a similar problem with SAP next season should he opt out and chase a long term deal next season.

[sturt]

Difference between when you technically sign a player (which can't happen until next week anyhow) and when you come to an agreement with a player. Baze' early bird rights, as were DMC's before him, were meaningless to this process. And... assuming you have a plan going into it if you're Budcox.... it would seem you'd want to lock-down an agreement with your Bird rights player first b/c you're essentially able to play the rest of the FA game knowing you've got that asset at a cap-hold discount (ie, by virtue of only counting 18m, but later signing for more).

I'm waiting for the next shoe to drop, and hoping to learn we have had a trade in-place to keep Horf.

[Buzzard]

11 minutes ago, sturt said:

Difference between when you technically sign a player (which can't happen until next week anyhow) and when you come to an agreement with a player. Baze' early bird rights, as were DMC's before him, were meaningless to this process. And... assuming you have a plan going into it if you're Budcox.... it would seem you'd want to lock-down an agreement with your Bird rights player first b/c you're essentially able to play the rest of the FA game knowing you've got that asset at a cap-hold discount (ie, by virtue of only counting 18m, but later signing for more).

I'm waiting for the next shoe to drop, and hoping to learn we have had a trade in-place to keep Horf.

I am not sure we want to make Horford the 2nd highest player in NBA history behind Conley. I know that record will change next season but it still it seems a little ludicrous. Trade him maybe, but I also see us trying to beat out everyone's offers without going to the full bird rights max.

On the trade front, I have read this morning that Phoenix has interest SAP. I am sure there are quite a few others as well interested in SAP and Horford. This kind of tempers my excitement, but I do understand why we would not want to pay out 70 plus million for three bigs.

I don't think any of this is willy-nilly, Howard was clearly our primary FA target and 23 mill a year is a bargain. Horford has his own agenda with meetings among four teams here in Atl.  You want trades in place already, and that's not always a reality. Teams know we want to make a move so they will try and get as much as they can for as little as they can. I am sure we have been burning the phones up since draft day.

I like the D12 signing a lot. Its been a while since a hall of fame player chose the Hawks to play for; lets just see how this plays out.

[JTB]

CHECK THIS OUT!

[sturt]

Buzz, I wouldn't have offered Horf the 5th year, but I would have been open to max money for the 4 years (which is still significantly more than anyone else can offer).

I'm intrigued, but not excited by acquiring Dwight. He is actually one of the last players I would have thought Bud would be interested in signing... sure he bring the rebounding, but then, at what cost.... all things considered, in Bud's system, he's a liability on the offensive end.

But, as you said.... let's see how the rest of this plays out. 

[MrYellow]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

Buzz, I wouldn't have offered Horf the 5th year, but I would have been open to max money for the 4 years (which is still significantly more than anyone else can offer).

I'm intrigued, but not excited by acquiring Dwight. He is actually one of the last players I would have thought Bud would be interested in signing... sure he bring the rebounding, but then, at what cost.... all things considered, in Bud's system, he's a liability on the offensive end.

But, as you said.... let's see how the rest of this plays out. 

"in Bud's system he's a liability"... As if it wasn't Bud who signed him.

[JTB]

 

[sturt]

10 minutes ago, MrYellow said:

"in Bud's system he's a liability"... As if it wasn't Bud who signed him.

In Bud I trust... but that doesn't mean the sky isn't blue and it doesn't mean that Dwight isn't a liability on the offensive end in the system he runs.

To the original point... I'm not big on Dwight, but I don't mind the acquisition if there's a plan that was in-place all along... it's just that it's very unclear what that plan could have been, when you don't start with the premise of locking up your Bird asset right away. Don't get me wrong... again... there's only so much you can plan as fast and furious as the environment is. I get that. Holding my breath that it all becomes clearer soon, and I know I'm not alone.

[IheartVolt]

Roll em up Horf and let's get to work

[MrYellow]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

In Bud I trust... but that doesn't mean the sky isn't blue and it doesn't mean that Dwight isn't a liability on the offensive end in the system he runs.

To the original point... I'm not big on Dwight, but I don't mind the acquisition if there's a plan that was in-place all along... it's just that it's very unclear what that plan could have been, when you don't start with the premise of locking up your Bird asset right away. Don't get me wrong... again... there's only so much you can plan as fast and furious as the environment is. I get that. Holding my breath that it all becomes clearer soon, and I know I'm not alone.

If he signed him, he think he know how to coach him...

[sturt]

"know how to coach him"...

What does that even mean?

Not concerned about coaching him. Some are.... I'm not one of those. I'm merely affirming what others too are seeing--this is not a natural fit for our offense. Defense, yes. Offense, nope.

[RandomFan]

19 minutes ago, sturt said:

this is not a natural fit for our offense. Defense, yes. Offense, nope.

I wouldn't be so sure on that.

[sturt]

1 minute ago, RandomFan said:

I wouldn't be so sure on that.

I'd love.... l-o-v-e, love.... to be persuaded otherwise....

[RandomFan]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'd love.... l-o-v-e, love.... to be persuaded otherwise....

Check this post out.

Obviously we will still have to see it develop on the court, but the potential is there for a solid fit. Now it's up to Dwight to embrace it.

[sturt]

Key point made there is that he's a superior pick-and-roll player.

I just don't see the evidence for making that claim.

 

[ATLien_]

59 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'd love.... l-o-v-e, love.... to be persuaded otherwise....

Look no further than Tiago Splitter. He started for the Spurs for years at center. Bud saw  Splitter as  a fit and traded for him last year. Dwight is better than Splitter  at everything except probably passing and maybe positional defense. Neither guy can shoot and they spend  time around  the basket. We also drafted  Walter Tavares.

I think it's a big misnomer that Bud only values stretch bigs in his system.  I believe Bud wants versatility. He wants to be able to make teams adjust to us and throw  out different  lineups.

[Thomas]

24 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

Look no further than Tiago Splitter. He started for the Spurs for years at center. Bud saw  Splitter as  a fit and traded for him last year. Dwight is better than Splitter  at everything except probably passing and maybe positional defense. Neither guy can shoot and they spend  time around  the basket. We also drafted  Walter Tavares.

I think it's a big misnomer that Bud only values stretch bigs in his system.  I believe Bud wants versatility. He wants to be able to make teams adjust to us and throw  out different  lineups.

Seems like Edy has the best range on his shot of all three. He actually has a jump shot. Doesn't mean I expect him to play much at all unless the very, very possible/probable injuries in the post occur this upcoming season.