A Creative Hawks Retool...

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

What if I told you letting Millsap walk and trading Bazemore would fix literally all of this teams problems? You probably wouldn't believe me because this team has been on a massive losing streak ever since both have been out however what you're missing is the starters in a good majority of those games have been in the positive in the +/- category. What's been killing us is our bench production, and everyone knows this team MUST have a good bench to succeed because our system relies on having guys who can rotate in and out and continue to run the offense seemingly. So with that in mind here's the easy fix.... 

 

Trade Baze to GSW because they'll be in need of another energetic SG/SF combo because they won't have the money to resign Iggy because they have to pay KD and Curry this upcoming season. 

 

Allow Millsap to walk because with him we're still a team that won't get past the ECF's because he isn't a number 1 option on ANY team that legitimately thinks they can contend. 

 

And with all all that money you have saved you do the folllwing.... 

 

Resign THJ,Humph,and Illyasova and then sign the following to bolster this teams depth and help us get back on the right track to Eastern Conference eliteness. 

 

Derrick Rose-Rose has stated he will not command a max deal and just wants to play for a winning team. Assuming he's true to his word we're the perfect fit for Rose as he could come in and be a solid backup to DS17 and he'd also provide a nice mentor to the youngster especially considering Rose was eerily similar to DS17 before he ascended into his MVP level of play. 

 

Ron Baker-yes 2 former Knicks back to back, but what Ron gives us is a guy very similar to our former fan favorite Kyle korver. He's a solid player who has a sneaky 6'4" frame and while his 3-or percentage doesn't blow you out of the water (31%) in his rookie season he's come on hot in the 2nd half of the season shooting near the 40% mark. He'd be a nice rotational player to add as a cheap addition. 

 

Shabazz Muhammad-Atheltic scorer who fits our system perfectly. Would be a nice 6th man on our squad. 

 

The following roster would be... 

PG-DS17,Rose,Cordinier 

SG-THJ,Bembry,Baker,(draft)

SF-Prince,Muhammad 

PF-Illyasova,Humph,(draft)

C-Howard,(draft)

 

with the roster assembled above you would have cap flexibility for years to come and the right mix of young studs/wise vets to lead this team and be competitive for the next few seasons. And if you ever were to find that guy who can be the face of the franchise (whether in house or not) you could easily build around that person. Just throwing an idea up on the board for the squawk to discuss. 

[capstone21]

Wow that team will definitely put us in the running for the number one pick next season

 

also, what does GS give up for Baz and why do they give up that much cap space for his lack of production?

[NBASupes]

This does get us in the lottery for a fact and likely worse than Brooklyn 

[Lurker]

As we've seen recently, a lineup like this would lead to a tanking season.

I'll repost what I've basically been saying. A philosophy change is needed in the draft (its kind of sad I can predict who are the likely Hawks draft picks), better assistants are needed, and an actual GM is needed.

I think guys like Prince and Bembry will turn out to be fine but they have a ceiling. Motley, Hart, and Swanigan have ceilings. Take a swing for a HR, not a single.

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

1 hour ago, capstone21 said:

Wow that team will definitely put us in the running for the number one pick next season

 

also, what does GS give up for Baz and why do they give up that much cap space for his lack of production?

What the issue with the team and secondly what's the issue with finishing in the lottery? Only thing that'd mean is we finally would have a chance to bring home a drafted stud star. 

 

As for the GSW trade... Bazemore's contract could be absorbed by them due to the fact majority of their bench is on 1 year deals and they could easily get him and resign KD/Curry. Their only losses from that however would be Zaza,Clark,and Iggy... which they're losses are pretty much guaranteed unless they sign on vet minimums next season (doubt it) due to the size of what KD and Curry will take up with their max deals. 

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

As we've seen recently, a lineup like this would lead to a tanking season.

I'll repost what I've basically been saying. A philosophy change is needed in the draft (its kind of sad I can predict who are the likely Hawks draft picks), better assistants are needed, and an actual GM is needed.

I think guys like Prince and Bembry will turn out to be fine but they have a ceiling. Motley, Hart, and Swanigan have ceilings. Take a swing for a HR, not a single.

While the roster doesn't look pretty it is definitely a deeper team than the one that was currently on the floor without Millsap. And that's the goal I think this team has to take because quite frankly I don't see any true superstar coming to ATL, so therefore we only have 2 options. 

 

1.Conjure up a team like this that is deep down throughout the bench (like even the 13th man can play good consistently) or option 2

 

2.Build a team like what the Sixers,Nets,and Suns have and be a young team but consistently miss the playoffs but the payoff is consistent lottery picks in hope we snag an actual superstar. 

 

Me personally i like option 1. Which is why I've brought the idea up that maybe the best way to build this team is not by major addition. It's by those minor additions. 

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

I think with the roster I've constructed you could easily run a 10 man rotation and be sneaky good like the Heat are this season. 

[Lurker]

55 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheSquawk said:

While the roster doesn't look pretty it is definitely a deeper team than the one that was currently on the floor without Millsap.

Maybe watch the games, this team isn't even in the ballpark of being close to decent with Millsap off the floor. It's not a case in which just getting two, three quality players is going to fix it, as much as you think it will.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Letting Millsap walk only puts us back in the lottery.  It doesn't fix any of our problems.  In fact, with this teams long history of NOT finding that franchise guy, unless it's via trade or free agency, we can't be sure if the right guy will EVER come along.

One thing is for sure, the fan base will not put up with what we've been seeing the past few weeks.  But the fan base also has to realize that you can't win a dang thing with a bunch of role players.  You MUST have that alpha dog type scorer on the team, that can carry the squad when the rest of the team is playing horribly.

The current management group didn't want to trade for guys like Demarcus Cousins or Carmelo Anthony ( nor did the fans ).  They didn't want to pay for, and bring in a quality vet like a Joe Johnson ( nor did the fans ).  They wanted no part of journeyman guys like Jordan Crawford ( nor did the fans ).

The big thing this franchise needs to do, is start acquiring guys that can do more than just one thing.   Ilyasova is the type of role player that can be valuable to us, because he can do multiple things.  But bringing in guys who can just make a 20 foot shot ( and only if wide open ), isn't conducive to winning.  Bringing in point guards who can just make an 18 foot jumper, and not finish ( or even get to ) the basket, isn't conducive to winning.

Brooklyn looked like the more talented team today, especially their bench.  There's no way that should be possible.  Even with 3 starters out, our 9 through 12 guys should be better and more versatile than what they are.

But when your talent is limited, the coach must drastically reduce the rotation, so as to keep the best players on the floor as much as possible.  Start playing guys 36 - 40 minutes a game, if need be.  

Nique routinely played 36+ minutes a game as a Hawk.

Joe Johnson played 40+ minutes a game in his early years as a Hawk . . three times . . and never played less than 35 minutes a game

Steve Smith played 39 minutes a game in two of his seasons as a Hawk.

 

Stop playing scrubs, and play the talented people.

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

52 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Maybe watch the games, this team isn't even in the ballpark of being close to decent with Millsap off the floor. It's not a case in which just getting two, three quality players is going to fix it, as much as you think it will.

This team's starting lineup isn't hurting with Sap off the floor. It's the bench. It's very obvious that the only way ANY hawks team will succeed with or without a all star like Millsap is  with a great bench, and the fact of the matter is we haven't had one sense the 60 win season. 

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

42 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Letting Millsap walk only puts us back in the lottery.  It doesn't fix any of our problems.  In fact, with this teams long history of NOT finding that franchise guy, unless it's via trade or free agency, we can't be sure if the right guy will EVER come along.

One thing is for sure, the fan base will not put up with what we've been seeing the past few weeks.  But the fan base also has to realize that you can't win a dang thing with a bunch of role players.  You MUST have that alpha dog type scorer on the team, that can carry the squad when the rest of the team is playing horribly.

The current management group didn't want to trade for guys like Demarcus Cousins or Carmelo Anthony ( nor did the fans ).  They didn't want to pay for, and bring in a quality vet like a Joe Johnson ( nor did the fans ).  They wanted no part of journeyman guys like Jordan Crawford ( nor did the fans ).

The big thing this franchise needs to do, is start acquiring guys that can do more than just one thing.   Ilyasova is the type of role player that can be valuable to us, because he can do multiple things.  But bringing in guys who can just make a 20 foot shot ( and only if wide open ), isn't conducive to winning.  Bringing in point guards who can just make an 18 foot jumper, and not finish ( or even get to ) the basket, isn't conducive to winning.

Brooklyn looked like the more talented team today, especially their bench.  There's no way that should be possible.  Even with 3 starters out, our 9 through 12 guys should be better and more versatile than what they are.

But when your talent is limited, the coach must drastically reduce the rotation, so as to keep the best players on the floor as much as possible.  Start playing guys 36 - 40 minutes a game, if need be.  

Nique routinely played 36+ minutes a game as a Hawk.

Joe Johnson played 40+ minutes a game in his early years as a Hawk . . three times . . and never played less than 35 minutes a game

Steve Smith played 39 minutes a game in two of his seasons as a Hawk.

 

Stop playing scrubs, and play the talented people.

The issue with what you're saying is eventually those players that are playing near max minutes will run out of gas or even worse get injured.

The NBA has evolved now into a team game. That's why we see NBA fans getting mad that they paid money just to watch a star rest, but the fact of the matter is that every player needs rest especially considering they play damn near max minutes night in and night out. And your theory to play the most talented people can work on a short term basis, but in an 82 game season those players will run out of gas and fall short every single time in today's NBA. 

So that's why I'm advocating for a bolstering of the bench opposed to keeping everyone in house. As much as everyone wants to say it we're not the Spurs East. We don't have the depth nor talent to just sub in and out players every offseason like we have the past 2 years with Korver,Carroll,Horford,and Teague leaving. That's why you have seen us decline. So until BudCox or Hill or whoever runs this team fully commits to reshaping the mold of this team sadly we'll continue to decline unless we luck up and draft/develop a star. 

Im telling you all now resigning Millsap is a lateral move for this team as constructed now and looking forward to the offseason. 

[benhillboy]

I like 4 of your points out of 5:

Paying Sap is crazy

Keeping Baze at his number is even crazier

I like Baker.  He fights over screens harder than Dennis I can tell you that.

Dont know about Muhammad but always felt like he could improve a lot in a set system

Cant agree with you on Rose.  That kid always been out to lunch.

We need so much with this team, this offseason is only a start lol.

 

[Lurker]

9 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheSquawk said:

This team's starting lineup isn't hurting with Sap off the floor. It's the bench. It's very obvious that the only way ANY hawks team will succeed with or without a all star like Millsap is  with a great bench, and the fact of the matter is we haven't had one sense the 60 win season. 

-6 net rating without Millsap says it does matter if Millsap is gone and unless you get a star caliber player, it's going to tank the team.

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

-6 net rating without Millsap says it does matter if Millsap is gone and unless you get a star caliber player, it's going to tank the team.

I will never understand why everyone on this site is not fully committed to change. What exactly is the problem with a lottery pick? That's literally our only chance to land a top caliber player to this roster because we've already tried to trade for one (and failed) and the slim few times we've tried to sign one or even resign one we failed (KD,Horf,etc.) Don't be afraid of change. 

[Lurker]

3 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheSquawk said:

I will never understand why everyone on this site is not fully committed to change. What exactly is the problem with a lottery pick? That's literally our only chance to land a top caliber player to this roster because we've already tried to trade for one (and failed) and the slim few times we've tried to sign one or even resign one we failed (KD,Horf,etc.) Don't be afraid of change. 

I'm in the camp of this needs a scorched earth rebuild. Not just a little, trade everyone on the team, everyone.

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

13 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'm in the camp of this needs a scorched earth rebuild. Not just a little, trade everyone on the team, everyone.

The way I look at this Hawks team is by comparing what I think a championship team should be to what we got now and see just who is worth keeping...

 

Schröder-Young PG that I feel could be top 10 maybe top 5 with maturity and growth with more time as a starter definite KEEP

Baze-Underperforming hustle player that is at best a 7th man on a actual contending team. GONE

Sefolosha-declining defensive player who provides absolutely nothing Offensively. GONE

Millsap-as a max player/main guy he's not worth it. On a contending team he's a iffy 2nd option but on most he's the 3rd guy just like K-Love. GONE

Howard-At his contract and for what he does I'm more than happy with keeping Dwight especially if down the road we build an actual contending team and he stays I'd love to see him in a 6th man or limited role with about 25 minutes a game where all he's gotta do is rebound and protect the paint. KEEP

THJ-Is a legit 6th man in the NBA on any contending team and on at least half of the teams he's a full time starter. KEEP

Prince-Solid rookie who has grown up before our eyes. I see a lot of those Carroll/Kawhi traits Bud seen when he was drafted definite KEEP

Bembry-Honestly to me I think he's Sefolosha's replacement as our primary defender on the leading scorer of whoever we play. He reminds me a lot of Andre Roberson which is perfectly fine with me. Especially as a role player. KEEP

Humph-Nice physical primary backup player on a minimal contract. KEEP

Muscala-Stretch 4 who doesn't stretch anything or provide enough versatility to do anything else. GONE

Illyasova-Legit versatile stretch 4 that I love seeing spell whoever our PF may be in the future. An absolute KEEP

Delaney-Go the f*** back to Europe. GONE

Jose-Journeyman PG with nothing left. GONE

Dunleavy-3 point specialist who doesn't not specialize in 3 point shooting. GONE

Kelly-D-League guy at best. GONE

Edited March 27, 2017 by ViewsFromTheSquawk

[JTB]

1 hour ago, ViewsFromTheSquawk said:

The way I look at this Hawks team is by comparing what I think a championship team should be to what we got now and see just who is worth keeping...

 

Schröder-Young PG that I feel could be top 10 maybe top 5 with maturity and growth with more time as a starter definite KEEP

Baze-Underperforming hustle player that is at best a 7th man on a actual contending team. GONE

Sefolosha-declining defensive player who provides absolutely nothing Offensively. GONE

Millsap-as a max player/main guy he's not worth it. On a contending team he's a iffy 2nd option but on most he's the 3rd guy just like K-Love. GONE

Howard-At his contract and for what he does I'm more than happy with keeping Dwight especially if down the road we build an actual contending team and he stays I'd love to see him in a 6th man or limited role with about 25 minutes a game where all he's gotta do is rebound and protect the paint. KEEP

THJ-Is a legit 6th man in the NBA on any contending team and on at least half of the teams he's a full time starter. KEEP

Prince-Solid rookie who has grown up before our eyes. I see a lot of those Carroll/Kawhi traits Bud seen when he was drafted definite KEEP

Bembry-Honestly to me I think he's Sefolosha's replacement as our primary defender on the leading scorer of whoever we play. He reminds me a lot of Andre Roberson which is perfectly fine with me. Especially as a role player. KEEP

Humph-Nice physical primary backup player on a minimal contract. KEEP

Muscala-Stretch 4 who doesn't stretch anything or provide enough versatility to do anything else. GONE

Illyasova-Legit versatile stretch 4 that I love seeing spell whoever our PF may be in the future. An absolute KEEP

Delaney-Go the f*** back to Europe. GONE

Jose-Journeyman PG with nothing left. GONE

Dunleavy-3 point specialist who doesn't not specialize in 3 point shooting. GONE

Kelly-D-League guy at best. GONE

This is exactly how I see all our current players. Only I feel like THJ is starter material but he need to be able to go through a whole season playing in buds system with the starters and against opposing teams starters and by doing that seems to me it would really benefit THJ and help him raise his game another level . As I've been saying all year Hawks continue to lack that alpha dog scorer...yet THJ has shown some huge flashes of being that guy! THJ need that opportunity to unleash and hopefully bud will realize that.

Regarding everything else you said @ViewsFromTheSquawk I agree with you but the squawk is pretty negative right now and for good reason. Therefore it's hard for some to see any bright side looking towards the near future .....anyways personally for me despite these horrible last games  I've already seen some good things for the near future and I believe the Hawks future is in their face with Dennis, THJ, Prince as starters for much of the individual reasons you posted above. Now  Will they probably lose starting off ? Of course! ...2 brand new starters and 2nd year full time starter, hell yeah they are going to lose but you take that time now to prepare them . That's what I'm looking forward to.

so going forward my lineup next year that I'm hoping for is:

pg-Dennis 

sg-THJ

sf-Prince 

can you imagine how much damage these 3 can do if they can simply build better chemistry going forward? They have the talent....they need the smarts and trust as unit.

pf- Derrick Favors (I believe bud may be able to get him since the Jazz is so hell bent on resigning Hayward$

c- Howard (his minutes may get cut but he brings in excellent value still though the game has changed at his position)

[BigDog90]

2 hours ago, ViewsFromTheSquawk said:

The way I look at this Hawks team is by comparing what I think a championship team should be to what we got now and see just who is worth keeping...

 

Schröder-Young PG that I feel could be top 10 maybe top 5 with maturity and growth with more time as a starter definite KEEP

Baze-Underperforming hustle player that is at best a 7th man on a actual contending team. GONE

Sefolosha-declining defensive player who provides absolutely nothing Offensively. GONE

Millsap-as a max player/main guy he's not worth it. On a contending team he's a iffy 2nd option but on most he's the 3rd guy just like K-Love. GONE

Howard-At his contract and for what he does I'm more than happy with keeping Dwight especially if down the road we build an actual contending team and he stays I'd love to see him in a 6th man or limited role with about 25 minutes a game where all he's gotta do is rebound and protect the paint. KEEP

THJ-Is a legit 6th man in the NBA on any contending team and on at least half of the teams he's a full time starter. KEEP

Prince-Solid rookie who has grown up before our eyes. I see a lot of those Carroll/Kawhi traits Bud seen when he was drafted definite KEEP

Bembry-Honestly to me I think he's Sefolosha's replacement as our primary defender on the leading scorer of whoever we play. He reminds me a lot of Andre Roberson which is perfectly fine with me. Especially as a role player. KEEP

Humph-Nice physical primary backup player on a minimal contract. KEEP

Muscala-Stretch 4 who doesn't stretch anything or provide enough versatility to do anything else. GONE

Illyasova-Legit versatile stretch 4 that I love seeing spell whoever our PF may be in the future. An absolute KEEP

Delaney-Go the f*** back to Europe. GONE

Jose-Journeyman PG with nothing left. GONE

Dunleavy-3 point specialist who doesn't not specialize in 3 point shooting. GONE

Kelly-D-League guy at best. GONE

It'd be nice to get rid of Baze but ATL probably is stuck with him unless they want to take back a longer bad contract (3+years) or swap straight up for somebody like Deng/Evan Turner. 

[DJlaysitup]

2 hours ago, ViewsFromTheSquawk said:

The way I look at this Hawks team is by comparing what I think a championship team should be to what we got now and see just who is worth keeping...

 

Schröder-Young PG that I feel could be top 10 maybe top 5 with maturity and growth with more time as a starter definite KEEP

Baze-Underperforming hustle player that is at best a 7th man on a actual contending team. GONE

Sefolosha-declining defensive player who provides absolutely nothing Offensively. GONE

Millsap-as a max player/main guy he's not worth it. On a contending team he's a iffy 2nd option but on most he's the 3rd guy just like K-Love. GONE

Howard-At his contract and for what he does I'm more than happy with keeping Dwight especially if down the road we build an actual contending team and he stays I'd love to see him in a 6th man or limited role with about 25 minutes a game where all he's gotta do is rebound and protect the paint. KEEP

THJ-Is a legit 6th man in the NBA on any contending team and on at least half of the teams he's a full time starter. KEEP

Prince-Solid rookie who has grown up before our eyes. I see a lot of those Carroll/Kawhi traits Bud seen when he was drafted definite KEEP

Bembry-Honestly to me I think he's Sefolosha's replacement as our primary defender on the leading scorer of whoever we play. He reminds me a lot of Andre Roberson which is perfectly fine with me. Especially as a role player. KEEP

Humph-Nice physical primary backup player on a minimal contract. KEEP

Muscala-Stretch 4 who doesn't stretch anything or provide enough versatility to do anything else. GONE

Illyasova-Legit versatile stretch 4 that I love seeing spell whoever our PF may be in the future. An absolute KEEP

Delaney-Go the f*** back to Europe. GONE

Jose-Journeyman PG with nothing left. GONE

Dunleavy-3 point specialist who doesn't not specialize in 3 point shooting. GONE

Kelly-D-League guy at best. GONE

I agree with you with some exceptions - everybody you mentioned SUCKS except Millsap :-)

The primary guys who took us to the ECFs were Al Horford, Paul Millsap, KKorver, Jeff Teague, and D.  We now have 1 of those 5 left and he is hurt.

 

[Guest]

Why would GSW take on Baze when  Iggy's caphold is about the same as Baze's contract? I'm sure they'd prefer to keep Iggy.  Stephs cap hold is $18  plus Iggy's is $16 mil plus their guaranteed contracts leaves them about $30 mil to give to KD.  You'd have to include an asset to trade Baze.

The team you propose is a tank team so no need for Rose. So if that's the case you would also look to move Dwight.

If that is the route the Hawks are taking - you get young players on low value short term contracts to groom or vets on the cheap who can add some 'teaching' value to the young players - that's not Derrick Rose.