Nooooooooooooo! No no God NO!

[Peoriabird]

Just now, DBac said:

They became contenders when Curry hit his prime. Teambuilding is important (the Warriors are built around his strengths perfectly... thats why I want the Hawks to space the floor out for Dennis), but he's a top 3 player in the NBA by all accounts. 

The Spurs roster right now is only in the mix because of Kawhi. 

And I don't expect any draft pick to come in day 1 and turn the team around. The idea is to build towards something long term. Warriors fans will trade those dog days with Steph for these 5+ years of contending any time.

You still didn't acknowledge that Kawhi was not obtained by tanking. So why did you mention him in this discussion

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

That appears to be the flaw in your thinking because you probably cannot come up with a single example where a none top 3 pick has transformed a team from a none contender into a contender.

It's impossible for a 19 year old to change your team into something serious unless it's someone like LeBron. Almost all 19 year old players have severe flaws like defense, focus, consistency and strength. 

 

14 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Unless you manage to pull something significant, if you don't resign Millsap you're going to miss the playoffs if you keep basically the same team. I don't know if its Nets bad, that's overreacting (or I may be underrating the Nets), but it's bad, 25-30 win bad.

I would say worse. The Nets have some promising young players but Lopez is a B- level player. Right now, Dennis is a C+ level player who played like a B- level player in the playoffs but Lin played like a B- level player at the end of the season for Brooklyn. I just don't know if our 2nd best player is legit who is Prince and I know Bazemore and Howard are wack or washed. 

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

This.

So do you agree with DBAC that we should sell Dennis for a draft pick, Not resign Hardaway and certainly not resign Millsap to get a chance to draft say a player like an Andrew Wiggins?

[Lurker]

I have no idea what this team actually wants to do but if you blow it up, and I mean not just quick reset, you absolutely do try to sell high on Dennis at the draft and get a middle-ish lottery pick.

[DBac]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You still didn't acknowledge that Kawhi was not obtained by tanking. So why did you mention him in this discussion

Because you said name a player from outside the top 3 that took a noncontending team to contending. 

[NBASupes]

Look at the bottom teams in the NBA. All of them have promising talent and some but usually bad vets. 

Phx- They have Booker, Chriss, Warren and Bender. But their vets aren't that good. Bledsoe is a C+ player, Knight is a C level, Chandler is a C level, Len is a C level. 

 

LAL- They have Young who's a C level but they have three C level young players with very high ceilings in Russell, Ingram and Randle. 

 

Philly- Has Embiid who is a B level player with A potential, Saric is C+ right now, Simmons has A talent and they have a lot of C to C- players. But their vets are bad. 

Brooklyn has a B level player in Lopez. C+ in Lin. A number of C+ and C level players. Their bench has decent talent. 

Atlanta is in worse position than any of these teams without Sap. We have a B+/A- in Sap and after that, it's a squad full of C+ and lower level players. Like it or not, Atlanta can bring back the same team without Sap and finish with the worst record in the NBA. Howard is a C level player who at times is a B+ player and at other times is a D+ player. That's usually a sign you see from guys like Jordan Crawford or Tim Hardaway Jr but for a vet and a former superstar, that's usually a sign of severe regression. You know who used to do that, T-Mac and Iverson and they never improved as they got older, only worse.

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, DBac said:

Because you said name a player from outside the top 3 that took a noncontending team to contending. 

So you are claiming that San Antonio was not a contender before Leonard came?????

[NBASupes]

Atlanta needs to keep Dennis, Prince, Tim and Bembry. Everyone else doesn't matter to the future of this team. That's not to be mean but it's the truth. 

[DBac]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

So you are claiming that San Antonio was not a contender before Leonard came?????

No, only that they would not be contending right now without him. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, DBac said:

No, only that they would not be contending right now without him. 

But when they landed him, they had three HOF's which made it easy for him to step in and develop. The problem we have is we lack the assets to improve via trade. The Spurs had a potential B player who was producing and young to offer as they had a B+ level player starting. Atlanta doesn't have the assets right now. They can't move up via trade without losing someone critical but they can't move up to where they need to go with anyone they currently have. Atlanta is in Philly land when their best players was Iggy and Holiday but Sap is better than Iggy and our squad is worse than that one outside of Sap. 

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, DBac said:

No, only that they would not be contending right now without him. 

What in h-ll are you on???  San Antonio i think had the best record in basketball and the number 1 seed in the west during the 2010-11 season at 61-21. Which is the year before Leonard was drafted.  They lost in the 1st round but I think that their record and seed qualified them as a contender

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Atlanta needs to keep Dennis, Prince, Tim and Bembry. Everyone else doesn't matter to the future of this team. That's not to be mean but it's the truth. 

So build from a core and not tank right?

[NBASupes]

When Atlanta mismanaged Horford as an asset, it placed this team from fringe contender to no man's land. 

Just now, Peoriabird said:

So build from a core and not tank right?

They are players who will fit the future but they aren't core players. 

[DBac]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What in h-ll are you on???  San Antonio i think had the best record in basketball and the number 1 seed in the west during the 2010-11 season at 61-21.  They lost in the 1st round but I think that their record alone qualified them as a contender

I'm not talking about then, only right now in the 2016-2017 season.  

@NBASupes This.

Edited May 7, 2017 by DBac

[Peoriabird]

Just now, DBac said:

I'm not talking about then, only right now. 

@NBASupes This.

Dude,  the question was drafting a player outside the top 3 as a non contender and becoming a contender after the player was drafted.  Lenard doesn't fit in that category.

[NBASupes]

Just now, DBac said:

I'm not talking about then, only right now in the 2016-2017 season.  

@NBASupes This.

They got him with what was a hot prospect in the NBA at the time. On top of that, what gave them the ability to take that risk was having a top 5 PG at the time in front of him in Parker. You reasoning is terrible because we aren't in that position. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They got him with what was a hot prospect in the NBA at the time. On top of that, what gave them the ability to take that risk was having a top 5 PG at the time in front of him in Parker. You reasoning is terrible because we aren't in that position. 

Thank You...I thought that I was the only one that couldn't follow the guy.

[DBac]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Dude,  the question was drafting a player outside the top 3 as a non contender and becoming a contender after the player was drafted.  Lenard doesn't fit in that category.

Well fine then lol. 

@NBASupes nah I was just agreeing that the Hawks don't have many tradable assets.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, DBac said:

Well fine then lol. 

@NBASupes nah I was just agreeing that the Hawks don't have many tradable assets.

The Hawks traded Teague for a higher draft pick.  Leonard was drafted @ 15 am I not correct?   Dennis could at least get a mid 1st round draft pick

Heck, their current pick is 19

[NBASupes]

Honestly, I hate to do this to Sap as he's much improved from his days as a B- player in Utah but this team is eerily similar to his Jazz with the exception of potential up and coming talent. Him and Jefferson could easily be this version of him and Dennis. The Mo Williams could easily be today's Dwight Howard. That said, the potential of that team was much greater than this team. Favors was seen as a potential B+ player which never happened. He became a B- player. Hayward became better than his expected B- level and became a B+ level player. Carroll left went from a C- level player to C+ in Atlanta and a perfect fit. Sadly, that team had the same record but was actually better than this squad. They outperformed their expected results and which was 41-41 and we did as well which was 39-43. That team had a lot of talent but needed to go young and this team has little to no talent and just need to cut the shit. On top of that, we have bad contracts now. That Jazz team didn't have one bad contract.