Nooooooooooooo! No no God NO!

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

The Hawks traded Teague for a higher draft pick.  Leonard was drafted @ 15 am I not correct?   Dennis could at least get a mid 1st round draft pick

Heck, their current pick is 19

But is that worth it. Dennis is a C+ player with B potential. It makes no sense to trade him unless we can get Lonzo Ball or someone with vast potential. B level players are hard af to land in today's NBA. If Kemba Walker came level, he would fetch a top 5 pick. 

[Lurker]

If Dennis actually used his tools well on the defensive end and was a consistent shooter in the 36-38% 3PT range I'd say he's somewhere in between Jrue Holiday and Eric Bledsoe as a PG. That's a legitimate starter in the NBA but it's a guy that is overextended as a top scoring option and top assists option. If he was just turned loose without Millsap (or perhaps someone else) to help him as a playmaker, he'd probably go 20/8/3 with 4 TO per game, and with a team probably in the mid 30s wins wise, just like with Jrue in Philly.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

But is that worth it. Dennis is a C+ player with B potential. It makes no sense to trade him unless we can get Lonzo Ball or someone with vast potential. B level players are hard af to land in today's NBA. If Kemba Walker came level, he would fetch a top 5 pick. 

Not saying I would do it but refuting the notion that Atlanta doesn't have the assess to get a mid 1st round pick like San Antonio did with Leonard.

[DBac]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

The Hawks traded Teague for a higher draft pick.  Leonard was drafted @ 15 am I not correct?   Dennis could at least get a mid 1st round draft pick

Dennis could definitely net something nice (like top 8 or so). This would be a weird draft to trade him though, most of the top prospects are PGs. There's a couple nice bigs but nobody to build around. And trading Dennis seems like a pipe dream. 

 

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Not saying I would do it but refuting the notion that Atlanta doesn't have the assess to get a mid 1st round pick like San Antonio did with Leonard.

Agreed. They did last year and got just that. But like I said, mismanaging Horford put the nail in the coffin for this franchise. Adding Howard and Bazemore is a massive mistake that will place this organization in rebuilding mode. That's why everyone got removed from their post. 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Agreed. They did last year and got just that. But like I said, mismanaging Horford put the nail in the coffin for this franchise. Adding Howard and Bazemore is a massive mistake that will place this organization in rebuilding mode. That's why everyone got removed from their post. 

I agree that we should continue to add talent...Just not ready to tank like Philly

[NBASupes]

Just now, DBac said:

Dennis could definitely net something nice (like top 8 or so). This would be a weird draft to trade him though, most of the top prospects are PGs. There's a couple nice bigs but nobody to build around. And trading Dennis seems like a pipe dream. 

 

Is it worth it? 

Does a team want to do that? 

Ask the Knicks what they would like? De'Aaron Fox or Dennis Smith Jr for 7-8 years locked into a great contract or 3 years of Dennis. Now Dennis is clearly better right now, but his contract is only three years and there's is 7-8 and they have the same potential as Dennis if not higher. It makes no sense to do that unless you feel you are in position to contend right now which no team in the top 10 is outside of Boston who doesn't need Dennis and wouldn't even do it for Jimmy Butler who's a A- level player much less a C+ level player. 

This is where good GM skills matter so much in the NBA. Sometimes you gotta overpay just to maintain an asset because if you don't, all of the dominos will fall and you will have to start all over again. I really think Bud felt he could get Orlando Dwight back if he was healthy and that risk completely failed. Horford said it best, Ainge wanted Al to do him, Atlanta wanted him to do all he does and score this amount and rebound this amount. Now Boston is about to go to the ECF and Atlanta is crashing and burning. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I agree that we should continue to add talent...Just not ready to tank like Philly

No one will tank again like Philly. The issue I had with their tank was that it came in weak drafts till more recently and they refused to change tune. 

 

Most of the teams with top 3 picks in today's NBA has good young talent but usually lousy vets. For us, we would have decent young talent and lousy vets. That would put us in a worse position than Brooklyn. 

[DBac]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Is it worth it? 

Does a team want to do that? 

Ask the Knicks what they would like? De'Aaron Fox or Dennis Smith Jr for 7-8 years locked into a great contract or 3 years of Dennis. Now Dennis is clearly better right now, but his contract is only three years and there's is 7-8 and they have the same potential as Dennis if not higher. It makes no sense to do that unless you feel you are in position to contend right now which no team in the top 10 is outside of Boston who doesn't need Dennis and wouldn't even do it for Jimmy Butler who's a A- level player much less a C+ level player. 

This is where good GM skills matter so much in the NBA. Sometimes you gotta overpay just to maintain an asset because if you don't, all of the dominos will fall and you will have to start all over again. I really think Bud felt he could get Orlando Dwight back if he was healthy and that risk completely failed. Horford said it best, Ainge wanted Al to do him, Atlanta wanted him to do all he does and score this amount and rebound this amount. Now Boston is about to go to the ECF and Atlanta is crashing and burning. 

I think a team would definitely take a 23 year old coming off a 25 and 8 playoff performance rather than take a risk on Fox (probably won't shoot as well as Dennis, but better distributor) or Smith (not gonna lie I love Dennis Smith Jr). Plus Sacramento is always down to make a deal . But really if you look at the past few years of PG draftees, Dennis is up at the top. 

 

I think what the Hawks wanted to do was sign Dwight and Al and then trade away Millsap. I think that would've been a smooth transition while being competitive in the meanwhile.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No one will tank again like Philly. The issue I had with their tank was that it came in weak drafts till more recently and they refused to change tune. 

 

Most of the teams with top 3 picks in today's NBA has good young talent but usually lousy vets. For us, we would have decent young talent and lousy vets. That would put us in a worse position than Brooklyn. 

Well the hawks are a playoff team with numerous chances to advance to the second round.  The Nets are the worst team in basketball without their 1st or 2nd round pick.  So i don't agree

[DBac]

Yeah it's hard to be in a worse position than Brooklyn. They are a bottom 3 terrible team without premium picks and very little FA appeal.

Edited May 7, 2017 by DBac

[Peoriabird]

I'll let Supes and lurker handle DBAC.  He got the "hit the lottery" mentality even though history doesn't support such an approach. 

[Lurker]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Well the hawks are a playoff team with numerous chances to advance to the second round.  The Nets are the worst team in basketball without their 1st or 2nd round pick.  So i don't agree

If you don't include Millsap, this is a bad team, maybe not as putrid as Brooklyn, but a bad team that has two awful contracts and is pretty stuck.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, DBac said:

I think a team would definitely take a 23 year old coming off a 25 and 8 playoff performance rather than take a risk on Fox (probably won't shoot as well as Dennis, but better distributor) or Smith (not gonna lie I love Dennis Smith Jr). Plus Sacramento is always down to make a deal . But really if you look at the past few years of PG draftees, Dennis is up at the top. 

 

I think what the Hawks wanted to do was sign Dwight and Al and then trade away Millsap. I think that would've been a smooth transition while being competitive in the meanwhile.

You think, would they? 7-8 years of rights of a player that has the same potential if not higher who has three years on his deal? Both Smith Jr and Fox are 19. This is usually a no brainier. Now if they didn't have a PG available at that slot and they had the need, they would strongly consider it but would Atlanta knowing they would have to start someone like Calderon or Delaney? 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

If you don't include Millsap, this is a bad team, maybe not as putrid as Brooklyn, but a bad team that has two awful contracts and is pretty stuck.

I feel that the players on the team will continue to get better and develop more chemistry...Obviously other posters don't think so but time will tell.

[DBac]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

You think, would they? 7-8 years of rights of a player that has the same potential if not higher who has three years on his deal? Both Smith Jr and Fox are 19. This is usually a no brainier. Now if they didn't have a PG available at that slot and they had the need, they would strongly consider it but would Atlanta knowing they would have to start someone like Calderon or Delaney? 

Like I said it's a funky draft for that kind of trade, but I think they'd have to consider it. But yeah I'd rather not watch 82 games of Delaney and Calderon, so we'd essentially be trading Dennis for another young PG unless they want to grab a young guy at 19 (which might not be any better).

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, DBac said:

Yeah it's hard to be in a worse position than Brooklyn. They are a bottom 3 terrible team without premium picks and very little FA appeal.

Not really. They have Lopez(B) and Lin(C+). They have a solid rotation of starters who are C level players. Caris LeVert has as much expected potential as anyone on this squad as he was a steal at his draft position. On top of that, Brooklyn has ZERO bad contracts. The issue with Brooklyn is their draft assets are terrible. But their cap situation is one of the best in the NBA. 

[Lurker]

Honestly while I go back and forth on it, I'm not really for a full on tank. But not full on tanking puts you in a tricky situation...you need to take more risks instead of taking the safe college guy (and you still really should trade at least one of your bad contracts).

Like if Hamidou Diallo stays in the draft, like what Milwaukee did with Maker, you risk your first on him and bring him along slowly. And if he doesn't, you risk that Hartenstein is able to reach the potential he has.

Maybe try what Miami did and don't bite the tax bill with Millsap and instead use the money on a bunch of under the radar talent. If it doesn't work, you have a top pick, and if it does work to the extent it did with Miami, you have a fun team that plays hard.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

I feel that the players on the team will continue to get better and develop more chemistry...Obviously other posters don't think so but time will tell.

How are they going to get much better when their best player is Dennis? 

We just seen a regression with most of the squad from last year to this year and from two years ago to last year? How are we going to get better. Teams gets better and worse in the NBA every year. We are the one team that got worse. Now you are talking about losing our only B+/A- level player and getting better. We lost a B- level player in Teague and A- in Horford can clearly got much worse by the analytics and the data aggression. 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, NBASupes said:

How are they going to get much better when their best player is Dennis? 

We just seen a regression with most of the squad from last year to this year and from two years ago to last year? How are we going to get better. Teams gets better and worse in the NBA every year. We are the one team that got worse. Now you are talking about losing our only B+/A- level player and getting better. We lost a B- level player in Teague and A- in Horford can clearly got much worse by the analytics and the data aggression. 

Horford is 31 and Teague is 28?  Prince is 21, THjr is 24? Bembry is 21?  Dennis is 23?  so yeah those will probably get better.   Also the chemistry will improve playing together more than 2-3 months