5-Man Unit Final Results for 2016-17 | What observations intrigue you, and what conclusions do you draw?

[sturt]

For now, all I've got is "observations"... will intend to come back after some time to think about "conclusions"...

1) Bud played one of the worst combinations an inexplicably large portion (425 min) of the time.

2) Two of our three (#7 and #10, in addition to #4) best Off/Def deltas inexplicably featured Delaney at PG (!)... and, not only that but Moose at C (!!!).

3) Just caught my eye because the two happen to be side-by-side at #14 and #15... same first four, but defense number worsened by 0.14 with Moose, and otoh, offense gained 0.28 with Moose.

4) My preseason vision of Schröder-Bazemore-Prince-Millsap-Howard as starters (and thus, amassing significant time together) over a majority of the season? Didn't even crack the top 20. (Ouch.) The only close facsimile is with Hardaway instead of Bazemore, but that one looks fairly depressing.

5) Absolute worse combination, hands-down: Schröder-Hardaway-Sefolosha-Milsap-Muscala--tied for our low-water mark on offense (0.94) and far and away our low-water mark on defense (1.36).

[Lurker]

When you look at that, it's really unexplainable how this team even won 43. I don't believe a different PG would have helped the top lineups, either.

[Bankingitbig]

Biggest thing to me is the Schröder-Hardaway-Sefolosha-Millsap-Howard lineup (#4) putting up a net differential of +0.26, but if you swap Sefolosha for Prince (lineup #12) it goes to -0.11. Somehow the Sefolosha lineup put up 1.24 OffRtg vs. 1.06 for the Prince lineup. Makes me question even more why Sefolosha didn't see playing time in the playoffs. Also, curious why the offense improves so much more with him instead of Prince because Sefolosha isn't good offensively. The only thing I can think is that Sefolosha is much more active in terms of movement and cutting, whereas Prince will just stand in the corner.

[Admin]

More ammo to my thought that LD was a better coach than Bud and we have gotten progressively worse since Bud got to ride the coattails of the system LD had in place. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

More ammo to my thought that LD was a better coach than Bud and we have gotten progressively worse since Bud got to ride the coattails of the system LD had in place. 

Huh???

LD played ISO with Joe.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

Biggest thing to me is the Schröder-Hardaway-Sefolosha-Millsap-Howard lineup (#4) putting up a net differential of +0.26, but if you swap Sefolosha for Prince (lineup #12) it goes to -0.11. Somehow the Sefolosha lineup put up 1.24 OffRtg vs. 1.06 for the Prince lineup. Makes me question even more why Sefolosha didn't see playing time in the playoffs. Also, curious why the offense improves so much more with him instead of Prince because Sefolosha isn't good offensively. The only thing I can think is that Sefolosha is much more active in terms of movement and cutting, whereas Prince will just stand in the corner.

when the season started and Baze struggled - this was the lineup I wanted to see.

Schröder-Hardaway-Sefolosha-Millsap-Howard.

Then Thabo got injured and wasn't the same.

[Admin]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Huh???

LD played ISO with Joe.

2012-2013 Hawks moved the ball all over the place and I believe we were near the top in assisted baskets. 

[Admin]

Yep we were 2nd in assists, half an assist per game behind the Spurs. That team put on a clinic in ball movement. 

[Lurker]

That goes to say, while I'm not down on him for it, Taurean wasn't really THAT great this season outside of the playoffs and a few games in the regular season. Its not that I don't like him, I do like him and he had enough moments to make me think he can become one of the best of his type (which is more like 3/D SF than star scoring SF), but sometimes we may need to pump the brakes a bit.

In fact, and it's poking at him again, I think Taurean could ACTUALLY be that Draymond Green type that someone is crying that someone in this draft is.

As long as Millsap is still here I think Taurean is going to be quite a bit better next year. He was just starting to show what he could do off of the ball in the playoffs.

[Guest]

My fav lineup was #12...however it looks like it didn't have great success based on the numbers. 

[Guest]

Dennis

THJ

Prince

?

Dwight

[benhillboy]

3 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

My fav lineup was #12...however it looks like it didn't have great success based on the numbers. 

Without looking at the numbers I just scrolled down to the first lineup that included Dennis while excluding Howard and Baze and decided that was my favorite.  What do you know, 75% winning percentage. 

Surprised Dennis didn't play a single minute with Delaney.  He gets killed here but his lack of turnovers and willingness to stay in his lane translate to more positive advanced numbers than you'd expect.

Edited June 3, 2017 by benhillboy

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

Without looking at the numbers I just scrolled down to the first lineup that included Dennis while excluding Howard and Baze and decided that was my favorite.  What do you know, 75% winning percentage. 

Surprised Dennis didn't play a single minute with Delaney.  He gets killed here but his lack of turnovers and willingness to stay in his lane translate to more positive advanced numbers than you'd expect.

He and Dennis played a few minutes, but not enough to register.

 

[benhillboy]

11 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

He and Dennis played a few minutes, but not enough to register.

 

Yeah I kinda remember a few minutes.  A whole lotta defense sagging off Delaney to shoot and size exploited on the other end. Not a good enough trade off for slightly better ball movement.

[thecampster]

What didn't surprise me is both Dennis and Hardaway are in 4 of the 5 top lineups for win shares and +/-.

Edited June 3, 2017 by thecampster

[AHF]

On 6/2/2017 at 4:53 PM, sturt said:

 

2) Two of our three (#7 and #10, in addition to #4) best Off/Def deltas inexplicably featured Delaney at PG (!)... and, not only that but Moose at C (!!!).

5) Absolute worse combination, hands-down: Schröder-Hardaway-Sefolosha-Milsap-Muscala--tied for our low-water mark on offense (0.94) and far and away our low-water mark on defense (1.36).

My guess:

2)  Delaney and Muscala got most of their time on the floor against bad backup players.  Combining the two of them with some of our best regular season players last year (THJr and Millsap) against bad backups = good results.

5)  That lineup played against starters.  Moose can't handle good players so while the rest of the lineup looked just fine in other lineups, subbing Moose in against real opponents = bad results.