Would the franchise be better served if Schlenk just goes ahead and hires his own guy to coach?

[sturt]

But we've seen this movie before. There's the honeymoon, and then later, if things start to feel like they're sliding backwards, self-preservation surfaces, and what once was denied as being at all plausible becomes plausible. What's more, we don't have any reason for confidence that Bud is content. To the contrary, we only have reason to think he might not.

 

Wish I could be so dismissive, but by purposely scheduling that news conference at the precise time Bud couldn't be there, Ressler at minimum introduced doubt into the situation.

[JTB]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

But we've seen this movie before. There's the honeymoon, and then later, if things start to feel like they're sliding backwards, self-preservation surfaces, and what once was denied as being at all plausible becomes plausible. What's more, we don't have any reason for confidence that Bud is content. To the contrary, we only have reason to think he might not.

 

Wish I could be so dismissive, but by purposely scheduling that news conference at the precise time Bud couldn't be there, Ressler at minimum introduced doubt into the situation.

Again I just think you're reaching too far about the introductory news conference for Schlenk. You're trying to grab something that's not there if you ask me but I will say again let's say ressler did in fact do what you're claiming...

It was more than likely done due to all three (ressler, Schlenk, bud) not having an opportunity to really discuss the future of the team and the off season coming up. No need to have all 3 up there on different outlooks of the future in front of the public. Schlenk was completely honest in my opinion when he stated that  he thought bud was a top 10 NBA coach (many feel this way) and proven developer, at the same time being brutally honest by saying they aren't best friends and have never really spoken to each other much until a brief conversation last week however they are on the same page as far as style goes and that's not hard to believe considering where both came from as far as prior teams.

 

Schlenk fits bud and bud fits Schlenk in the same way the Warriors fit Kerr and vice verse...Kerr was Spurs type guy, he believed in all the same philosophies when it came to player and ball movement....Schlenk knows Bud is the exact same coach with more experience but with a lesser talented roster.

[Thomas]

8 hours ago, hazer said:

I can't be the only one intrigued with Snyder...

Believe Quinn is going to be one of the highest compensated coaches within five years or even less. Can coach and develop very well, including winning games late in the clock which is the combination everyone looks for. Wonder how much he likes Salt Lake as a possibly permanent home, or not?

[sturt]

5 hours ago, JTB said:

Again I just think you're reaching too far about the introductory news conference for Schlenk. You're trying to grab something that's not there if you ask me but I will say again let's say ressler did in fact do what you're claiming...

Setting a couple of things straight before this spins off into something other than what "I'm claiming" in reality...

1. I did not introduce this post as-if it's what I want. At all. Again, I'm among Bud's most stout advocates.

2. I am not saying the scenario envisioned "will" happen. I am saying it is plausible. And I'm saying it's plausible because it's plausible we will have a worse record than this season in the coming season and because, as I say, "we've seen this movie before," that everyone is positive for good long while, but once it ends up that outcomes are negative, those emotions follow.

3. I can't say this any more emphatically... no, Ressler practically without question DID do what I'm claiming....

Because what I'm claiming is (a) Ressler could have scheduled the press conference at a time when Bud could have been there. And (b), Ressler didn't.

4. How should anyone interpret that?

Well, there are positivist ways to interpret it. You just attempted one. There are negative ways to interpret it. Each person can judge for him/herself how realistic it is to believe one or the other. I've already made clear what seems more realistic to myself. (The record notably will show that I'm not the cynical type, btw.)

5. What no one seemingly should be trying to argue is that Ressler didn't introduce reason for doubt into it all... ie, by not scheduling it sometime in the 6 days after it was announced (as we said here back then, who ever waits a week, after all, to have a presser with their new GM???), or for that matter, by scheduling it sometime after... ie, you've waited a week, what's another 3 days until Monday?

Don't you want that photo op of the three of you holding that basketball, Mr. Ressler? Don't you want that opportunity that the presser presents to talk about the future and put forward the image of a unified front?

Your decision made it appear you perceived the risk to be greater than the reward, and again, to the point here, your decision absolutely introduced doubt.

6. What I'm not claiming is that there is any divide today where Schlenk is concerned between himself and his coach. I take him at face value.

The OP merely suggests, if we look down the road to what we might expect to be seeing this time next year, and putting that together with lessons of NBA history... might it be that we will have felt better if Schlenk had just went ahead and gotten "his guy."

So, make no mistake, the questions here are not with Schlenk's current attitude, but with (a) Bud's, (b) Ressler's, and (c) Schlenk's projected one after what could be a disappointing 2017-18 season.

(And for clarity, yes, the premise of the question is requisite... if the coming season "meets expectations" or better, then the legitimacy of the question evaporates, imo.)

 

[hazer]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

Setting a couple of things straight before this spins off into something other than what "I'm claiming" in reality...

1. I did not introduce this post as-if it's what I want. At all. Again, I'm among Bud's most stout advocates.

2. I am not saying the scenario envisioned "will" happen. I am saying it is plausible. And I'm saying it's plausible because it's plausible we will have a worse record than this season in the coming season and because, as I say, "we've seen this movie before," that everyone is positive for good long while, but once it ends up that outcomes are negative, those emotions follow.

3. I can't say this any more emphatically... no, Ressler practically without question DID do what I'm claiming....

Because what I'm claiming is (a) Ressler could have scheduled the press conference at a time when Bud could have been there. And (b), Ressler didn't.

4. How should anyone interpret that?

Well, there are positivist ways to interpret it. You just attempted one. There are negative ways to interpret it. Each person can judge for him/herself how realistic it is to believe one or the other. I've already made clear what seems more realistic to myself. (The record notably will show that I'm not the cynical type, btw.)

5. What no one seemingly should be trying to argue is that Ressler didn't introduce reason for doubt into it all... ie, by not scheduling it sometime in the 6 days after it was announced (as we said here back then, who ever waits a week, after all, to have a presser with their new GM???), or for that matter, by scheduling it sometime after... ie, you've waited a week, what's another 3 days until Monday?

Don't you want that photo op of the three of you holding that basketball, Mr. Ressler? Don't you want that opportunity that the presser presents to talk about the future and put forward the image of a unified front?

Your decision made it appear you perceived the risk to be greater than the reward, and again, to the point here, your decision absolutely introduced doubt.

6. What I'm not claiming is that there is any divide today where Schlenk is concerned between himself and his coach. I take him at face value.

The OP merely suggests, if we look down the road to what we might expect to be seeing this time next year, and putting that together with lessons of NBA history... might it be that we will have felt better if Schlenk had just went ahead and gotten "his guy."

So, make no mistake, the questions here are not with Schlenk's current attitude, but with (a) Bud's, (b) Ressler's, and (c) Schlenk's projected one after what could be a disappointing 2017-18 season.

(And for clarity, yes, the premise of the question is requisite... if the coming season "meets expectations" or better, then the legitimacy of the question evaporates, imo.)

 

Bud is Schlenk's guy, it's part of why he accepted the job. He's already said it took a special situation for him to leave the Warriors, and referenced Bud as part of that special situation. 

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, hazer said:

Bud is Schlenk's guy, it's part of why he accepted the job. He's already said it took a special situation for him to leave the Warriors, and referenced Bud as part of that special situation. 

All of that has essentially already been acknowledged, though. There is no argument about any of that. ("Is" being present tense.)

 

[AHF]

Coaches are like players.  When a new gm comes in he asks whether a player will fit the ball he wants played and the culture he wants and whether that guy will be worth the cost.  If the player meets the criteria, the gm keeps him to build around.  If not, then ship him out.

 

I think that Bud meets that keeper criteria and don't think we would be better off letting him go.  Let Bud focus on coaching and let our new GM run the business and personnel side.

[sturt]

Again, @AHF... no disagreement with any of that....

3 hours ago, sturt said:

6. What I'm not claiming is that there is any divide today where Schlenk is concerned between himself and his coach. I take him at face value.

The OP merely suggests, if we look down the road to what we might expect to be seeing this time next year, and putting that together with lessons of NBA history... might it be that we will have felt better if Schlenk had just went ahead and gotten "his guy."

So, make no mistake, the questions here are not with Schlenk's current attitude, but with (a) Bud's, (b) Ressler's, and (c) Schlenk's projected one after what could be a disappointing 2017-18 season.

(And for clarity, yes, the premise of the question is requisite... if the coming season "meets expectations" or better, then the legitimacy of the question evaporates, imo.)

 

 

[sturt]

Answering my own question... the real one, that is, as opposed to how the question seems to have been misinterpreted in a variety of ways...

Yes, we might be able to look back on June 2017 and say, "would have been a year ahead if Schlenk had just went ahead and made a clean break, and hired his own guy, minus the baggage of supervising the guy who used to supervise the GM and who now has seen a disappointing 2017-18."

Absolutely, imo.

But then, in follow-up to that, there's this...

That we might doesn't preclude the upside of if we might not.

And, consequential to "might not" is... can we somehow improve for 2017-18, not taking any step backward at all, but rather, finishing 2017-18 with a flourish?

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, sturt said:

Answering my own question... the real one, that is, as opposed to how the question seems to have been misinterpreted in a variety of ways...

Yes, we might be able to look back on June 2017 and say, "would have been a year ahead if Schlenk had just went ahead and made a clean break, and hired his own guy, minus the baggage of supervising the guy who used to supervise the GM and who now has seen a disappointing 2017-18."

Absolutely, imo.

But then, in follow-up to that, there's this...

That we might doesn't preclude the upside of if we might not.

And, consequential to "might not" is... can we somehow improve for 2017-18, not taking any step backward at all, but rather, finishing 2017-18 with a flourish?

 

I also think we might find out a bit on how much say Bud really has in transactions with the draft coming up. It's not super easy to identify but I think we will be able to tell if the player we draft is a Bud guy or more of a Schlenk guy.

[Lurker]

Golden State has a similar drafting philosophy from what I've seen. They put a priority on college vets and Euros.

So I don't think the draft will help, free agency however? Yes.

[sturt]

That there's even a perceived difference is a little disturbing to me. But I think what you're saying, @Spud2Nique, has some truth in it--as Bradley's column surmised, Bud's almost certainly going to be more geared toward "win-now" than Schlenk is going to be, and that on its own sets this situation up as more challenging than we'd wish.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

That there's even a perceived difference is a little disturbing to me. But I think what you're saying, @Spud2Nique, has some truth in it--as Bradley's column surmised, Bud's almost certainly going to be more geared toward "win-now" than Schlenk is going to be, and that on its own sets this situation up as more challenging than we'd wish.

Ya it's still hard to tell completely but if they take a guy like Bell from Oregon or maybe a Justin Jackson with the 19th, it would seem like Bud...but if we trade up into the top 10 or take a guy like Jarrett Allen or Ike Anigbogu, then I'm thinking it's a Schlenk style rebuild.

[sturt]

Yeah, I think it's a pivotal question for those who want to re-build... it's almost never that a sitting coach survives to continue to coach on the other side of a re-build.

I'd like to see us improve. (And, along with that goes, I'd like to see us hold on to Bud.)

I just don't know how there's any hope for that in reality. Not saying they can't, just saying if they can, it's beyond my little brain to conceive what the path to a better outcome for 2017-18 looks like.

 

[Guest]

If Vegas knows anything, they are assuming that we are rebuilding as they put us as the 23rd team with the best chance of winning the title next year. +30000...wow..

 

https://www.sportsbook.ag/sbk/sportsbook4/nba-finals-betting/2018-nba-championship-(next-years).sbk

[sturt]

Yep. Those odds... sadly... don't seem that out of line right now.

Something tells me if things don't work out so well here for 2017-18, the timing of Pop's retirement decision might be of particular interest to Bud.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, sturt said:

Something tells me if things don't work out so well here for 2017-18, the timing of Pop's retirement decision might be of particular interest to Bud.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

He is ours...no going back! Lol.

[sturt]

Ask yourself, do you feel better about Bud's contentment with his status with the franchise long-term if he'd been part of the interview committee?

Me, too.

But, well, of course, he wasn't.

Failing that, ask yourself, then, would it make you feel better about Bud's contentment with his status with the franchise long-term if he'd been at the press conference?

Me, too.

Actually, it would have made me feel fabulous about it all, seeing Bud up there talking about what he believes Schlenk brings to the team and how excited he is to work with him.

But, well, of course, that didn't happen... in fact, it was deliberately scheduled on a day (as we all know, they waited a whole week) that would provide excuse for him not to be there and say any of that.

That's a big "ruh-roh" for me.  (Obviously.)

Really? I'm the only one? It doesn't for anyone else? We're well in to the second page of this thread now, and it feels like I'm on an island.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, sturt said:

Ask yourself, do you feel better about Bud's contentment with his status with the franchise long-term if he'd been part of the interview committee?

Me, too.

But, well, of course, he wasn't.

Failing that, ask yourself, then, would it make you feel better about Bud's contentment with his status with the franchise long-term if he'd been at the press conference?

Me, too.

Actually, it would have made me feel fabulous about it all, seeing Bud up there talking about what he believes Schlenk brings to the team and how excited he is to work with him.

But, well, of course, that didn't happen... in fact, it was deliberately scheduled on a day (as we all know, they waited a whole week) that would provide excuse for him not to be there and say any of that.

That's a big "ruh-roh" for me.  (Obviously.)

Really? I'm the only one? It doesn't for anyone else? We're well in to the second page of this thread now, and it feels like I'm on an island.

Jesus Christ he had his kid's graduation...lol...things happen..and if he was there you'd feel like he's on board 100%?

[sturt]

Not sure why there's this level of resistance. Honestly.

 

Was graduation already scheduled?

Yes. Absolutely. So, that date is crossed off in Bud's calendar.

 

So, in the world many of us live in, when we're scheduling something important and we want certain people to be there, we get everyone to get their calendars out, and we figure out what day/times are open.

In this case, the opposite appears to have occurred. Bud said when he had a conflict, and Ressler said, "Great, let's wait a week on this so you can't make it, Bud."

That, or Bud volunteered, "Ya know, Tony, I'd really rather not be at the press conference, and it sure would be convenient if you'd wait a week for that, so that I have a 'reason' for not being there."

 

So yeah... of course... there's an extra-large divide between (a) purposely not wanting Bud to be there and (b) Bud sitting there voicing his support.