Would the franchise be better served if Schlenk just goes ahead and hires his own guy to coach?

[Guest]

 

[sturt]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

Not sure why there's this level of resistance. Honestly.

 

Was graduation already scheduled?

Yes. Absolutely. So, that date is crossed off in Bud's calendar.

 

So, in the world many of us live in, when we're scheduling something important and we want certain people to be there, we get everyone to get their calendars out, and we figure out what day/times are open.

In this case, the opposite appears to have occurred. Bud said when he had a conflict, and Ressler said, "Great, let's wait a week on this so you can't make it, Bud."

That, or Bud volunteered, "Ya know, Tony, I'd really rather not be at the press conference, and it sure would be convenient if you'd wait a week for that, so that I have a 'reason' for not being there."

 

So yeah... of course... there's an extra-large divide between (a) purposely not wanting Bud to be there and (b) Bud sitting there voicing his support.

"Steve? Hi, this is Tony. Get your calendar out....

"I'm thinking next Friday morning, June 2 for the press conference. Is that open on your schedule?....

"Yes?... Great...

"Just want to make sure that everybody who matters has that time open.... Mark it down and we'll see you then."

 

*wink*

[RandomFan]

Does nobody else think it's simply more about everyone wanting the day to be all about Schlenk and him getting his first GM job? And knowing if Bud was in attendance questions to him would have possibly overshadowed Schlenk's special day? It doesn't have to be some shady ulterior motive for the team to schedule this on a day Bud would not be able to attend.

[sturt]

13 hours ago, sturt said:

4. How should anyone interpret that?

Well, there are positivist ways to interpret it. You just attempted one. There are negative ways to interpret it. Each person can judge for him/herself how realistic it is to believe one or the other. I've already made clear what seems more realistic to myself. (The record notably will show that I'm not the cynical type, btw.)

5. What no one seemingly should be trying to argue is that Ressler didn't introduce reason for doubt into it all... ie, by not scheduling it sometime in the 6 days after it was announced (as we said here back then, who ever waits a week, after all, to have a presser with their new GM???), or for that matter, by scheduling it sometime after... ie, you've waited a week, what's another 3 days until Monday?

Don't you want that photo op of the three of you holding that basketball, Mr. Ressler? Don't you want that opportunity that the presser presents to talk about the future and put forward the image of a unified front?

Your decision made it appear you perceived the risk to be greater than the reward, and again, to the point here, your decision absolutely introduced doubt.

@RandomFan, first, I give you credit for at least being the first to seemingly acknowledge that this was obviously a conscious decision. And yes, I acknowledged a positivist interpretation is possible (... see above).

But as you yourself suggest in this "give him his day in the sun w/o distraction" interpretation, one still implicitly affirms that Ressler or Bud or both perceived the risk of having Bud vulnerable to questions was greater than the reward of showing the unified front.

Conventional wisdom says, if Bud is all-in on this, then you want those questions because you want that stuff met head-on and put behind you. You want him, if he's genuinely feeling great about the new hire, sitting there providing confirmation that this is, indeed, going to be a partnership.

And the converse is also true... if you don't want those questions, then it naturally follows that you perceive the risk of him being there is greater than the potential reward of him being there.

Does that constitute a "shady ulterior motive?"

I suppose it's a matter of word choice. Might not call it shady, but then, clearly there was an attempt from the start (as Bob Rathburn opened the event) to preempt any questions about why Bud wasn't there and to slide past the question "Why not schedule this for another time, then?" "Ulterior motive," though, is fairly accurate either way by the strict definition of the phrase... ie, a motive that isn't explicitly stated.

Backing up to the original premise and question, the ingredients seem to be here for a not-nearly-so-hunky-dorry off-season next year IF the 2017-18 team fails to meet expectations.

 

[hazer]

Schlenk's first official day as GM was June 1st. The very next day is a Friday, big day in news cycle circles. Just started, great day to announce, Bud was at a once in a lifetime graduation. Draw yourself a nice hot bath, toss in some magnesium salts, pop a beer, and soak up the anti-cortisol mineral. It does wonders for anxiety ;)

Edited June 5, 2017 by hazer

[sturt]

16 minutes ago, hazer said:

Schlenk's first official day as GM was June 1st. The very next day is a Friday, big day in news cycle circles. Just started, great day to announce, Bud was at a once in a lifetime graduation. Draw yourself a nice hot bath, toss in some magnesium salts, pop a beer, and soak up the anti-cortisol mineral. It does wonders for anxiety ;)

It's like whack-a-mole. It really is.

So his first official day was June 1st. So what? His first official day could have been any day they wanted to make it his first official day. I don't know how that even actually matters here. (Heck, Schlenk had been meeting for "days" with Bud already, per his presser comment... so maybe those days don't count because he wasn't "official" yet? Cmonnnnnnnnn. That has nothing to do with anything here.)

"Great day to announce"... ummm.... they already announced it a week before on the Hawks website. Right? Not telling you anything you didn't already know.

Bud, indeed, was at a once in a lifetime graduation.

And unless you think that was a sudden decision on his part...

"Oooooh hey, I just realized, Tony... I know I told you I could make it to the press conference, but I wasn't thinking about this graduation thing my kid asked me to attend..."

....then, you understand that when Ressler decided on that date, he consciously was scheduling it for ostensibly the one day that Bud couldn't  be available.

Please. Let's at least move past that much here.

And "anxiety?" Yes, I absolutely admit to having anxiety. As @Spud2Nique posted earlier, we're not exactly trending on everyone's list as an up-and-coming threat. So, I make no apologies--I think there's good reason for anxiety about the short-term of this team.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, sturt said:

It's like whack-a-mole. It really is.

So his first official day was June 1st. So what? His first official day could have been any day they wanted to make it his first official day. I don't know how that even actually matters here. (Heck, Schlenk had been meeting for "days" with Bud already, per his presser comment... so maybe those days don't count because he wasn't "official" yet? Cmonnnnnnnnn. That has nothing to do with anything here.)

"Great day to announce"... ummm.... they already announced it a week before on the Hawks website. Right? Not telling you anything you didn't already know.

Bud, indeed, was at a once in a lifetime graduation.

And unless you think that was a sudden decision on his part...

"Oooooh hey, I just realized, Tony... I know I told you I could make it to the press conference, but I wasn't thinking about this graduation thing my kid asked me to attend..."

....then, you understand that when Ressler decided on that date, he consciously was scheduling it for ostensibly the one day that Bud couldn't  be available.

Please. Let's at least move past that much here.

And "anxiety?" Yes, I absolutely admit to having anxiety. As @Spud2Nique posted earlier, we're not exactly trending on everyone's list as an up-and-coming threat. So, I make no apologies--I think there's good reason for anxiety about the short-term of this team.

No we aren't but then again the oddsmakers always crap on us. I don't remember the last time the oddsmakers gave us a legit shot at it...prolly cracked top 5 a few times in the last few decades. 

 

Sorry its Sunday night I don't wanna depress everyone with Hawks history. @hazer what do I do...get a rubber ducky or...where's @kg01...that bath isn't gonna draw itself...

 

And a one and a two and a....

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

No we aren't but then again the oddsmakers always crap on us. I don't remember the last time the oddsmakers gave us a legit shot at it...prolly cracked top 5 a few times in the last few decades. 

 

Sorry its Sunday night I don't wanna depress everyone with Hawks history. @hazer what do I do...get a rubber ducky or...where's @kg01...that bath isn't gonna draw itself...

 

And a one and a two and a....

[hazer]

7 hours ago, sturt said:

It's like whack-a-mole. It really is.

So his first official day was June 1st. So what? His first official day could have been any day they wanted to make it his first official day. I don't know how that even actually matters here. (Heck, Schlenk had been meeting for "days" with Bud already, per his presser comment... so maybe those days don't count because he wasn't "official" yet? Cmonnnnnnnnn. That has nothing to do with anything here.)

"Great day to announce"... ummm.... they already announced it a week before on the Hawks website. Right? Not telling you anything you didn't already know.

Bud, indeed, was at a once in a lifetime graduation.

And unless you think that was a sudden decision on his part...

"Oooooh hey, I just realized, Tony... I know I told you I could make it to the press conference, but I wasn't thinking about this graduation thing my kid asked me to attend..."

....then, you understand that when Ressler decided on that date, he consciously was scheduling it for ostensibly the one day that Bud couldn't  be available.

Please. Let's at least move past that much here.

And "anxiety?" Yes, I absolutely admit to having anxiety. As @Spud2Nique posted earlier, we're not exactly trending on everyone's list as an up-and-coming threat. So, I make no apologies--I think there's good reason for anxiety about the short-term of this team.

It's only whack-a-mole if the entire point of you creating this thread is for reassurance of your reaching suspicion that Bud is a goner, and for us to agree with you. Why then even ask the question "Would It?" in the title? Should've just called it "Bud's a Goner, Amarite Amarite?! Who's With Me???" 

[hazer]

7 hours ago, sturt said:

It's like whack-a-mole. It really is.

So his first official day was June 1st. So what? His first official day could have been any day they wanted to make it his first official day. I don't know how that even actually matters here. (Heck, Schlenk had been meeting for "days" with Bud already, per his presser comment... so maybe those days don't count because he wasn't "official" yet? Cmonnnnnnnnn. That has nothing to do with anything here.)

"Great day to announce"... ummm.... they already announced it a week before on the Hawks website. Right? Not telling you anything you didn't already know.

Bud, indeed, was at a once in a lifetime graduation.

And unless you think that was a sudden decision on his part...

"Oooooh hey, I just realized, Tony... I know I told you I could make it to the press conference, but I wasn't thinking about this graduation thing my kid asked me to attend..."

....then, you understand that when Ressler decided on that date, he consciously was scheduling it for ostensibly the one day that Bud couldn't  be available.

Please. Let's at least move past that much here.

And "anxiety?" Yes, I absolutely admit to having anxiety. As @Spud2Nique posted earlier, we're not exactly trending on everyone's list as an up-and-coming threat. So, I make no apologies--I think there's good reason for anxiety about the short-term of this team.

We all realize it's a distinct possibility Ressler scheduled the thing so that this could be Schlenk's moment to shine without the prospect of the guy he's replacing sitting next to him. There are obvious advantages to that. But his first day on the job was Thursday June 1st, so Friday June 2nd doesn't seem like such a conspirital day to have the press conference. Nor does the absence of Bud due to a prior family engagement, whether intentional or coincidental, point to the reaching assumption in the title of this thread that Schlenk doesn't want Bud coaching the Hawks. Sorry @sturt, I just think you're reading WAY too much into it.

[hazer]

They didn't even make/announce their decision until 5/25, is officially starting the job on 6/1 and having the presser introducing him on 6/2 (a Friday) really conspiratorial?

[AHF]

18 hours ago, sturt said:

That there's even a perceived difference is a little disturbing to me. But I think what you're saying, @Spud2Nique, has some truth in it--as Bradley's column surmised, Bud's almost certainly going to be more geared toward "win-now" than Schlenk is going to be, and that on its own sets this situation up as more challenging than we'd wish.

I don't find that disturbing.  I expect a coach to be geared toward "win-now" which is why it is rarely a good idea to have the coach as the most important voice in roster management.  There should be that dynamic with any well managed team.  I think last year we saw the concerning, unhealthy dynamic of doing things like grossly overpaying Bazemore because we "needed that wing to win now."

You should have the tension between coach looking shortterm and a strong GM looking long-term.  To me, that isn't challenging, it is healthy.

[hazer]

Results weren't there, appreciate that we finally now have an owner who takes action to correct that instead of the hot mess that was the Atlanta Spirit Group. For the past 4 years, we finally now have a COTY and All-Star coach who is considered top 10 in the league who players want to come here and play for. Compare that to Woodson and Drew. We just hired quite possibly the best possible GM candidate available, who had a hand in building the current Warriors, ringingly endorsed by none other than The Logo himself. Pete Babcock, Billy Knight, and/or Rick Sund anyone? Relax, take a deep breath, soak this all in, and appreciate what we now have...

[macdaddy]

Look at it from Bud's perspective.   Hired by Ferry, off to a great start, ownership implodes, takes 2 years to sort it out, Ferry canned, Bud promoted to sort of co-GM with wilcox, now force to resign president title and have a new boss.   We have no idea what's going through his head.   The hawks should be trying to keep him around but all I know is that at some point Pop will get tired and want to order his grand kids around.    I think the rest of Bud's family is still in TX.   If Becky Hammon doesn't get the job i'd think it's Bud's to turn down.  

[hazer]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Look at it from Bud's perspective.   Hired by Ferry, off to a great start, ownership implodes, takes 2 years to sort it out, Ferry canned, Bud promoted to sort of co-GM with wilcox, now force to resign president title and have a new boss.   We have no idea what's going through his head.   The hawks should be trying to keep him around but all I know is that at some point Pop will get tired and want to order his grand kids around.    I think the rest of Bud's family is still in TX.   If Becky Hammon doesn't get the job i'd think it's Bud's to turn down.  

It would be pretty hard for Bud to turn down that Spurs gig when that opens up. If that ever happened, get Snyder on the horn ASAP.

[Diesel]

On 6/2/2017 at 6:30 PM, sturt said:

I ask b/c we all pretty much knew when Ferry came in that Larry Drew's days were numbered, though he denied that at the time. Sooner than later, Ferry was going to want his time to be judged by how the team performed once he had someone he himself wanted for the job, and not just a nice guy who he inherited.

So, given that it appears we've come full circle back to the traditional GM approach, and that by his absence it's difficult to surmise that Bud is still regarded as one of the inner circle and is fundamental to the team's future success (at least where the owner is concerned)...

Should Schlenk just save himself and Bud and all of us fans some unnecessary time going down that road, and just seek a buy-out of whatever contract Bud has left?

I'm asking, not advocating. 24 hours ago, it wasn't even a reasonable question to put out there, but now it seems it most certainly is.

The problem here is the assumption that Bud is not a Schlenk kinda guy.  I think Bud is actually the model for the Kerrs, Stevensons,  and Luke Waltons of the world of coaching.  I just don't think of Bud as being a good GM at all. 

Whereas LD was a good coach with us, he would never subscribe to what Ferrry wanted. 

[Diesel]

16 minutes ago, hazer said:

It would be pretty hard for Bud to turn down that Spurs gig when that opens up. If that ever happened, get Snyder on the horn ASAP.

You know Becky is going to be handed the Spurs gig right??  Popp is going to hand it to her personally.

 

 

[HawkItus]

Never forget........

Bob Sura and his raggedy band of Hawks kept us from the #1 pick!

[sturt]

2 hours ago, hazer said:

It's only whack-a-mole if the entire point of you creating this thread is for reassurance of your reaching suspicion that Bud is a goner, and for us to agree with you. Why then even ask the question "Would It?" in the title? Should've just called it "Bud's a Goner, Amarite Amarite?! Who's With Me???" 

I should have explained what I 'meant by that. Sorry.

"Whack-a-mole" specifically in the sense that I keep whacking, but the same protests keep popping back up, and I'm prompted to try to re-state the same thing in some new way in case someone isn't actually getting it the first time or the second or third... assuming they even read enough in the thread to know that protest was already addressed (and multiple times, at that).

And I did ask the question in a way intended to compel thoughts in this direction, certainly. But then, really and truly, I didn't come to this answer to the question...

21 hours ago, sturt said:

Answering my own question... the real one, that is, as opposed to how the question seems to have been misinterpreted in a variety of ways...

Yes, we might be able to look back on June 2017 and say, "would have been a year ahead if Schlenk had just went ahead and made a clean break, and hired his own guy, minus the baggage of supervising the guy who used to supervise the GM and who now has seen a disappointing 2017-18."

Absolutely, imo.

But then, in follow-up to that, there's this...

That we might doesn't preclude the upside of if we might not.

And, consequential to "might not" is... can we somehow improve for 2017-18, not taking any step backward at all, but rather, finishing 2017-18 with a flourish?

 

 

...until just before I posted it. I ended up, instead, spending so much time and energy just trying to speak to the validity of the premises... and honestly, without pointing any particular finger in any particular poster's direction, so many of the replies assumed things that weren't actually asserted, and as such, they were arguing with a strawman, not me.

So, "Bud's a goner?"... nope. First, it's not that simple and an intention of the OP was to sort through it all. And second, see quote directly above.

 

[sturt]

3 hours ago, hazer said:

We all realize it's a distinct possibility Ressler scheduled the thing so that this could be Schlenk's moment to shine without the prospect of the guy he's replacing sitting next to him.

 

2 hours ago, hazer said:

They didn't even make/announce their decision until 5/25, is officially starting the job on 6/1 and having the presser introducing him on 6/2 (a Friday) really conspiratorial?

"Conspiratorial" is strong, but if that's the word you want to choose to describe the "distinct possibility et al", okay I guess.

But, then... which is it?

Either "Ressler scheduled the thing so that this could be Schlenk's moment to shine"... ie, "conspiratorial" if you like, but again, I just think maybe a little suspiciously covertly strategic on his part... or nah, they didn't even announce their decision until a week before, so waiting 7 days or so until ostensibly the only day Bud couldn't be there... no, no "conspiracy" (again, your word) implicit in that.

Me, I think you're dancing on this one.

You've always been one of the more logical people here, imo, and like me, one of the least cynical... and so you see the logic, and your anti-cynic side makes you just doggedly determined to somehow promote the peace, love and understanding thing.

Perhaps that's because you, like me, saw how sincere Schlenk seems to be. I don't deny that at all. I believe Schlenk is sincere. I don't imagine he had anything to do with when the presser was scheduled. This has nothing to do with his current outlook. It has everything to do with what Ressler's indisputable actions say about what's going on in his own mind, or in Bud's mind, or in both...

And then, all I did in the OP was to say, given that, let's look ahead to what things might look like this time next year.