Is our new 1st round pick too old school?

[JTB]

First off don't get me wrong I love old school centers over these soft wannabe wing playing centers. The 90s spoiled me and I will always love the BIG men who showed physicality and banged around the goal like a junkyard dog.

But sadly those days are over (at least for right now) and our new 1st round pick isn't necessarily a bang type of center but I've been watching breakdowns, highlights, etc of Collins overall offense and damn this kids low post offense, foot work, faceup game, every thing that has to do with low post offense  is simply superb especially for a 19 year old!...I was blown away with this young mans low post offense and you old schoolers around here are really going to appreciate that part in his game.

but with all that said...the NBA game has changed! I like this pick a lot but I would have been in love with a pick like this before all this small ball shit started. Its honestly odd to me that his coaches in college didn't try to get him to shoot more rather than working on his post game so much being that bigs in the NBA today are shooters. Again I love bigs who can score in the paint especially at will but I'm just not sure how this will work as he's not really going to make any real impact in my opinion until he can learn how to knock down a 3 in a game.

 

 

 

Last before everyone goes nuts I love this kids game cause I love old school bigs better than these shooting bigs...I'm simply just saying the league has changed for players like this who can score in the post and they aren't as important as they use to be. Just seems like we went back in time a bit with this one.

[frosgrim]

I think if you can score effectively/efficiently there is a  spot for you in the NBA. This is independent of "style" per se. A smart coach will provide opportunities for that player to do what he does best.  Millsap did a lot of low block work for the Hawks, as well as PNR/PNP work. Collins should be able to find that niche within the Budoffense. 

 

I also like the Collins pick. I'm not over the moon about him, but I can see that he could be a  very good addition to the club and be a building block- but not a star/team carrier. 

 

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, frosgrim said:

I think if you can score effectively/efficiently there is a  spot for you in the NBA. This is independent of "style" per se. A smart coach will provide opportunities for that player to do what he does best.  Millsap did a lot of low block work for the Hawks, as well as PNR/PNP work. Collins should be able to find that niche within the Budoffense. 

 

I also like the Collins pick. I'm not over the moon about him, but I can see that he could be a  very good addition to the club and be a building block- but not a star/team carrier. 

 

Watching the breakdowns and film it just doesn't seem like he's able to put the ball on the ground like millsap can against PFs or Cs. But we will see...he's really striking me as a "let him get in position and you give him the ball and let him go to work" type of big.

[Guest]

I can't remember, but was Millsap known to put the ball on the floor like he can now?  I remember him more as a back to the basket bruiser/rebounder early in his career.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, JTB said:

Watching the breakdowns and film it just doesn't seem like he's able to put the ball on the ground like millsap can against PFs or Cs. But we will see...he's really striking me as a "let him get in position and you give him the ball and let him go to work" type of big.

True but he's 19 and hasn't just enrolled in Bud U! BTW nothing wrong with old school.. Sap is the definition of an old school baller and I love him.

[hawkman]

Collins is going to surprise a lot of people. He can flat out score and rebound and has a nice midrange game. Everything he did in college translates to the NBA since NBA PFs are so weak today. It almost seems like any big who can post his man up is looked at as a dinosaur. I don't get that. If Shaq, Hakeem, or Duncan were playing right now and in their prime, they would still dominate. The other NBA teams got it all wrong, and for once, it worked out for us.

[CP61]

He shot very from outside the paint last year, although he didn't do it much. He wasn't asked to shoot, but he shot a good FT%. Actually he shot about the same percentage as Hawksquawk darling Justin Jackson on twice as many attempts. He went 16/25 from 3 at the combine. I know it's just a workout, but the signs of a good shooter for a big man are there. It's already publicly been said that the Hawks want him to start working on his jump shot, so I'm thinking he's the best of both worlds.

[ATLien_]

7 minutes ago, JTB said:

First off don't get me wrong I love old school centers over these soft wannabe wing playing centers. The 90s spoiled me and I will always love the BIG men who showed physicality and banged around the goal like a junkyard dog.

But sadly those days are over (at least for right now) and our new 1st round pick isn't necessarily a bang type of center but I've been watching breakdowns, highlights, etc of Collins overall offense and damn this kids low post offense, foot work, faceup game, every thing that has to do with low post offense  is simply superb especially for a 19 year old!...I was blown away with this young mans low post offense and you old schoolers around here are really going to appreciate that part in his game.

but with all that said...the NBA game has changed! I like this pick a lot but I would have been in love with a pick like this before all this small ball shit started. Its honestly odd to me that his coaches in college didn't try to get him to shoot more rather than working on his post game so much being that bigs in the NBA today are shooters. Again I love bigs who can score in the paint especially at will but I'm just not sure how this will work as he's not really going to make any real impact in my opinion until he can learn how to knock down a 3 in a game.

 

 

 

Last before everyone goes nuts I love this kids game cause I love old school bigs better than these shooting bigs...I'm simply just saying the league has changed for players like this who can score in the post and they aren't as important as they use to be. Just seems like we went back in time a bit with this one.

John Collins has a nice stroke and he's all ready really good in the mid range. Even if he never extend to 3 he would be really valuable. I see no reason why he can't extend to three; he's already a 75 percent free throw shooter. I don't know many guys that can't shoot that shoot that well from the free throw line.

Traditional bigs aren't dying because they can't play; it's dying because AAU and and every big wanting to be a guard. David Robinson, Shaq, Olujawan would all still dominate because they were skilled and could move. Post isn't being taught, so if you can't shoot what else can you do?

You don't think Al Horford would have been a better player if he had learned to post up efficiently? He might have been a real superstar. He was too limited offensively only being able to shoot. The key is versatility and being able to attack at all levels. The best players can be a threat to score anywhere on the court.

[Buzzard]

Even in todays NBA you need one bully in the post. GSW does it with Draymond or ZaZa, Cavs do it with Tristian. Bostons weakness is their post play and 3pt shooting, they had no chance at all against the Cavs for these very reasons. 

And when I say bully in the post I am talking about both ends of the floor.

[Guest]

I agree he's a bit ol' skool-ish but, due to his athleticism-activity quotient, he has a place.  It's not like he's a plodder, which would be a problem IMHO.

I think, for bigs, if they can guard or 'effect' the PnR, they'll be fine.

If they can do that and score in the post, they'll be pretty good.

If they can do that, and score in the post and step out and hit the J, you've got something special on you hanz ... this is what I believe we potentially have in Collins.

Collins has a rep as a good reboarder too so I'm starting to fall in love with the pick.

[Bankingitbig]

Excited by Collins' offense and think he can extend his range to be a somewhat average 3pt shooter. He needs to increase his defensive BBIQ I think. He has the athletic ability to guard 3-5 I think, but just needs to be smarter on defensive and not always ball watching.

[CP61]

1 minute ago, ATLien_ said:

You don't think Al Horford would have been a better player if he had learned to post up efficiently? He might have been a real superstar. He was too limited offensively only being able to shoot. The key is versatility and being able to attack at all levels. The best players can be a threat to score anywhere on the court.

I think, offensively, that could be a good comp for Collins potential. Al with a post up game. Collins actually shot a better FT percentage than Horford. They are about the same height too. Hopefully he can rebound, but Al could rebound in college too. 

[Guest]

Aye, I cain't get no love for coining the term 'athleticism-activity quotient'?  Just slid that right in as if it's a thing.

Also got no love for the new sig either.  SMDH, I thought y'all cared.

[Guest]

He's 19 with a post game and decent footwork - that's a good thing.  I think it's easier to improve on his already decent mid range jump shot, that it is to add a post game.  Extend his range to 15-18 feet, then out to the 3 eventually.

 

If he can be a versatile offensive player.  How's his handle.

[ATLien_]

1 minute ago, CP61 said:

I think, offensively, that could be a good comp for Collins potential. Al with a post up game. Collins actually shot a better FT percentage than Horford. They are about the same height too. Hopefully he can rebound, but Al could rebound in college too. 

Yea Al used to be a good rebounder in the NBA too before the pec tears. I think it's a fair comparable. Al was much better and tougher defensively, but Al was a Junior too, and played on a defensive team. I think John is the better offensive player. Al didn't extend to the three until late in his nba career and Al's release was slower.

[Sothron]

Collins is not a center, he's a PF...although I guess we could put him in at 5 for a small lineup.

I'm not worried about him on offense outside of the typical "needs to work on strength/jump shot".

A low post game in today's NBA should be MORE value since it helps to stretch a defense even more. The fact there are so few low post players should, in theory, mean he has more room to operate on the blocks and has less defenders that are used to facing someone down there.

My concerns with him are his defense. Go watch WF tape, it is bad, like Charlie Villanueva bad. He needs serious help on defense. But offensively? He's probably the most polished big guy in the draft this year. I'm shocked he fell to us at 19.

[hawkman]

5 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

John Collins has a nice stroke and he's all ready really good in the mid range. Even if he never extend to 3 he would be really valuable. I see no reason why he can't extend to three; he's already a 75 percent free throw shooter. I don't know many guys that can't shoot that shoot that well from the free throw line.

Traditional bigs aren't dying because they can't play; it's dying because AAU and and every big wanting to be a guard. David Robinson, Shaq, Olujawan would all still dominate because they were skilled and could move. Post isn't being taught, so if you can't shoot what else can you do?

You don't think Al Horford would have been a better player if he had learned to post up efficiently? He might have been a real superstar. He was too limited offensively only being able to shoot. The key is versatility and being able to attack at all levels. The best players can be a threat to score anywhere on the court.

I can't agree with this enough. Collins has turnaround jumpers, hooks, floaters, and counter moves in the post. You add a decent midrange shot and high %FT shooter to those post skills and you have a potential offensive monster on your hands. He's a very agile big with explosive leaping ability AND a high motor on the glass. He will be our most skilled big on day one if Sap leaves. I don't see how the Hawks could have done any better.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He's 19 with a post game and decent footwork - that's a good thing.  I think it's easier to improve on his already decent mid range jump shot, that it is to add a post game.  Extend his range to 15-18 feet, then out to the 3 eventually.

 

If he can be a versatile offensive player.  How's his handle.

Handles and defense and outside shooting will be fixed with the help of Dr. Bud in the lab...ala Dre...lol.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He's 19 with a post game and decent footwork - that's a good thing.  I think it's easier to improve on his already decent mid range jump shot, that it is to add a post game.  Extend his range to 15-18 feet, then out to the 3 eventually.

If he can be a versatile offensive player.  How's his handle.

If Howard had his post offense, folks'd be saying "Shaq who?"

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Collins is not a center, he's a PF...although I guess we could put him in at 5 for a small lineup.

I'm not worried about him on offense outside of the typical "needs to work on strength/jump shot".

A low post game in today's NBA should be MORE value since it helps to stretch a defense even more. The fact there are so few low post players should, in theory, mean he has more room to operate on the blocks and has less defenders that are used to facing someone down there.

My concerns with him are his defense. Go watch WF tape, it is bad, like Charlie Villanueva bad. He needs serious help on defense. But offensively? He's probably the most polished big guy in the draft this year. I'm shocked he fell to us at 19.

Wait, when you say "we" are you still talking Hawks or Twolves? (hehe)

Agree with your comments on post scoring.  Whatever the "modern" NBA folks say, post scoring is still important and there are fewer and fewer guys that can post-defend without simply fouling.

My Heat-fan BIL tried to convince me that Shaq couldn't play in the NBA today.  I just shook my head.

[Sothron]

4 minutes ago, hawkman said:

I can't agree with this enough. Collins has turnaround jumpers, hooks, floaters, and counter moves in the post. You add a decent midrange shot and high %FT shooter to those post skills and you have a potential offensive monster on your hands. He's a very agile big with explosive leaping ability AND a high motor on the glass. He will be our most skilled big on day one if Sap leaves. I don't see how the Hawks could have done any better.

We couldn't have done better. This is the first draft since Dennis that I'm actually really happy with our picks.