Will Michael Porter Jr. lead the Atlanta Hawks to multiple NBA titles?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

15 hours ago, AHF said:

I think he'll be short but he is part of the discussion.

On the surface, I would agree.   But the departure of Gordon Hayward may give Joe one more decent production season on his resume.  He already has his 20,000 points, which is normally the automatic benchmark to get into the Hall.  Only 2 guys who have reached this mark are not in the Hall of Fame ( Tom Chambers, Antwan Jamison ).  The other guys who have reached this mark, but not in, are either still active, or waiting for their 5 year hiatus to be up, so they can be elected into the Basketball HOF.

The big thing though, will be his knack of making clutch shots.  That's his main legacy right now.  And barring injury, and a complete decline in his skills, he's going to become only the 13th player in NBA history to have 20,000 points - 5,000 rebounds - and 5,000 assists in his career.  He's currently 82 assists and 113 rebounds shy of 5,000 in each categories.

Only 16 players are in the 15,000 pts - 5,000 rebs - 5,000 asst club.  And all are in the HOF.

Joe honestly needs to join one of these "superteams" after this season, to try to get a ring as a veteran role player off the bench,  Maybe he'll have a clutch performance or make a big shot for a team like that.  Joe is likely to finish his career with 21,000+ points with 5,000 rebs and assists.

[AHF]

Agree with your recommendation for him.  A ring or two and a few clutch moments in CF and Finals series would do a lot for his case.  If his career has been in LA or Boston, he would likely be a nobrainer right now due to the difference in media coverage.

[KB21]

This is the guy the Hawks MUST get for tanking to be worth it:

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/901043952278786048

Edited August 25, 2017 by KB21

[marco102]

19 minutes ago, KB21 said:

This is the guy the Hawks MUST get for tanking to be worth it:

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/901043952278786048

A lot of fans are sleeping on Luka because he is European. I'd love to have him and now he's slipped to about 5 in the draft per NBA draft.net. I hate deaftexpress sold their collective souls to the devil (ESPN).

If the Hawks are the worse team or luck into a top 3 drat pick Luka or Marvin would be great.  They just need that infusion of young talent.

[bleachkit]

Why is it so hard to tell who is going to be good? Its incredible how often NBA GM's get it wrong.

[KB21]

Those within the NBA put too much emphasis on the wrong traits.  Too many value length and athleticism over skill and production.  Also, when you have a bunch of 19-20 year old prospects to evaluate, it is difficult to determine which of those guys actually has the skill level to become elite at some point.  

[DBac]

 

7 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Why is it so hard to tell who is going to be good? Its incredible how often NBA GM's get it wrong.

Anticipating league trends, measuring motor/desire to improve, coaching, and sometimes players just don't translate for a variety of reasons.

[Flight]

Side note on the Porter talk, the team he played for his senior year was actually 3-18 the year before.

It was also headed by first year coach (Former NBA Player) Brandon Roy. 

 

Just a few facts.

[ATLien_]

20 hours ago, KB21 said:

This is the guy the Hawks MUST get for tanking to be worth it:

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/901043952278786048

I've watched every video you  posted of Donic and I have concerns about his ability to create space in the NBA. If you're skilled you don't have to be an uber athlete, but there is a Mendoza line for athleticism that makes it hard for you to be a star. I'm less concerned with max vertical and top speed, but he appears to lack quickness and suddenes in his game. There is very little separation between low end and top end speed which is necessary to create deception. It's the difference between being on a sliding scale Adam Morrison -> Nik Staukas -> Doug McDermott-> Kyle Anderson -> Danillo Galanari-> Manu Ginobili. All these players are skilled in their own right, but Manu is by far the best and has the quickest first step and is very deceptive because he can change pace. In terms of athleticism I would put Donic clearly behind Galanari and Manu.

[bleachkit]

I'm no scout but I really had doubts about Marvin Williams becoming a star when we drafted him. Just watching him at UNC, this guy cant handle the ball very well, and cant create his own shot, he's not smooth at all ,very awkward. The rebuttal is , he's long and has a nice looking shooting stroke. There's a name for tall guys that can shoot but cant handle the ball or create for themselves. They're called role players. If you're projecting a guy to be a star, there has to be a certain skill set, and being able to handle the ball comfortably is very important. How many Superstars are there that cant handle the ball? These days it is virtually none. I think passing on Chris Paul for Marvin is an important lesson for teams. Stop worrying how long their arms are, start focusing on the skills that make for a dynamic and versatile player, like ball handling, creativity, court vision, etc.

[Lurker]

10 hours ago, Flight said:

Side note on the Porter talk, the team he played for his senior year was actually 3-18 the year before.

It was also headed by first year coach (Former NBA Player) Brandon Roy. 

 

Just a few facts.

Good!

Do it at Missouri, a college team that has fans starving for wins, and maybe you'll have me 100% buying in.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Good!

Do it at Missouri, a college team that has fans starving for wins, and maybe you'll have me 100% buying in.

Even then, I'd question whether it is due to him or his brother Jontay, who may be a better prospect and was also on that HS team that made the leap in wins.

[Flight]

On 8/26/2017 at 9:58 AM, KB21 said:

Even then, I'd question whether it is due to him or his brother Jontay, who may be a better prospect and was also on that HS team that made the leap in wins.

 

Jontay is good but if you think he's a better prospect or meant more to their team this past season then you obviously just personally don't like Michael. 

Because he was easily the best player on the team and debatably in the nation this past year. He even led their team to a victory over Bagley's. Just give the man his credit. 

 

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, Flight said:

 

Jontay is good but if you think he's a better prospect or meant more to their team this past season then you obviously just personally don't like Michael. 

Because he was easily the best player on the team and debatably in the nation this past year. He even led their team to a victory over Bagley's. Just give the man his credit. 

 

It's nothing against Michael, but when I see someone get the hype that he is getting, I expect to see more on the floor from him than what I've seen at this point.  He's a 6'10" jump shooter who does very little else on the floor.   

I'm the same with Marvin Bagley.  I want to see more than what I've seen when a player comes with this much hype.  Sure, his athleticism, length, and mobility are attractive, but he is not a complete offensive player nor a great positional defender at this point.  Can he get there?  Maybe.  Many thought Andrew Wiggins was going to be the next great thing to hit the NBA when he came out, and in three years, he hasn't improved any of his weaknesses yet.  

[Flight]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

It's nothing against Michael, but when I see someone get the hype that he is getting, I expect to see more on the floor from him than what I've seen at this point.  He's a 6'10" jump shooter who does very little else on the floor.   

I'm the same with Marvin Bagley.  I want to see more than what I've seen when a player comes with this much hype.  Sure, his athleticism, length, and mobility are attractive, but he is not a complete offensive player nor a great positional defender at this point.  Can he get there?  Maybe.  Many thought Andrew Wiggins was going to be the next great thing to hit the NBA when he came out, and in three years, he hasn't improved any of his weaknesses yet.  

 

What exactly are you looking for then? Prospects are either hyped for size or skill and in Bagley and Porters cases they both have Size AND Skill. They're both intelligent players that know how to make an impact on a game. Both have crazy potential, I'm just not sure why you'd give Doncic so much hype but question their abilities even though they've proven they can hold their own already against NBA level players.

 

Andrew Wiggins was a player that Wow'd everyone with his athleticism. Porter and Bagley are both much more balanced in terms of skill. I'm just saying they deserve the love they get and it wouldn't surprise me if both could go top 3. 

[KB21]

1 hour ago, Flight said:

 

What exactly are you looking for then? Prospects are either hyped for size or skill and in Bagley and Porters cases they both have Size AND Skill. They're both intelligent players that know how to make an impact on a game. Both have crazy potential, I'm just not sure why you'd give Doncic so much hype but question their abilities even though they've proven they can hold their own already against NBA level players.

 

Andrew Wiggins was a player that Wow'd everyone with his athleticism. Porter and Bagley are both much more balanced in terms of skill. I'm just saying they deserve the love they get and it wouldn't surprise me if both could go top 3. 

I'm not talking about just shooting ability when I look at skill level in a player.  Michael Porter can shoot.  What I don't see from Michael Porter is elite passing ability, shaky ball handling, and a current lack of ability to truly take someone off the dribble and score.  I also see very minimal defensive potential.

When I see Doncic, I see an elite shooter, elite ball handler, elite passer, and overall elite playmaker.  

[Flight]

On 8/27/2017 at 3:07 PM, KB21 said:

I'm not talking about just shooting ability when I look at skill level in a player.  Michael Porter can shoot.  What I don't see from Michael Porter is elite passing ability, shaky ball handling, and a current lack of ability to truly take someone off the dribble and score.  I also see very minimal defensive potential.

When I see Doncic, I see an elite shooter, elite ball handler, elite passer, and overall elite playmaker.  

Judging by this response you're definitely overvaluing Doncic for some reason. He's not an elite ball handler, his passing is good but his lack of explosiveness and quickness means that he will have a hard time taking anyone off the dribble in the league. Doncic has played on courts with less space and fewer athletic players. He's doesn't have "takeover a game" type scoring ability, he's someone that primarily needs the ball. 

Keep in mind that highlight videos won't show him missing shots and his weaknesses. It's much easier to find that in American players. You can keep saying Porter is just a shooter but you're obviously overlooking his offensive prowess. He's the most versatile near 7'0 we've seen since KD. Honestly he's be a better fit for our team than Doncic would. (Honestly Ayton, Bamba and Bagley all may be better fits)

[Lurker]

You're massively overvaluing Michael Porter Jr.

He will not be even 30% of what KD was. Period...end of story.

[NBASupes]

On 8/25/2017 at 1:50 PM, KB21 said:

This is the guy the Hawks MUST get for tanking to be worth it:

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/901043952278786048

No he isn't. 

[NBASupes]

On 8/26/2017 at 10:06 AM, ATLien_ said:

I've watched every video you  posted of Donic and I have concerns about his ability to create space in the NBA. If you're skilled you don't have to be an uber athlete, but there is a Mendoza line for athleticism that makes it hard for you to be a star. I'm less concerned with max vertical and top speed, but he appears to lack quickness and suddenes in his game. There is very little separation between low end and top end speed which is necessary to create deception. It's the difference between being on a sliding scale Adam Morrison -> Nik Staukas -> Doug McDermott-> Kyle Anderson -> Danillo Galanari-> Manu Ginobili. All these players are skilled in their own right, but Manu is by far the best and has the quickest first step and is very deceptive because he can change pace. In terms of athleticism I would put Donic clearly behind Galanari and Manu.

This. Doncic skill wise is great, one of the best Euros I've seen but this is the NBA. Anamolies tend to be the superstars. Not the super skilled players. Most super skilled players are role players in the NBA. Only ones who wasn't like Kobe was very athletic. Doncic isn't below average athletically. Speed - meh, defense - meh, the first step - meh. 

The NBA is an athletic league. He better be such a skilled shooter to get away with his league of athletic ability. The only one I have seen become a star is Larry Bird. I don't see above average height like Bird nor do I see the super elite shooting skills. To me, he's a tweener in the NBA. He's between a PG and an SG while not having the ability to guard either one. 

I just don't see anything special. 

 

I see Porter Jr. I see special qualities. Same for Ayton and Bagley III. But when I see Doncic and Bridges. I see two very good prospects but they are just missing something special. They are lacking in the tools categories while not lacking in the skills category.