Question for Squawkers...

[Diesel]

IF we got the #1 pick overall, would you move Collins and our #22 pick for a shot at the top of the lottery.. say 3, 4, or 5? 

 

The question that this move really asks is:

1.  How much value do you give to Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Porter or any of the other Bigs compared to Collins.

2.  How do you rate Prince? (Porter and Doncic) 

3.  How long do you think the Hawks comeback plan is/should be?

 

 

[Sothron]

Depending on how the season pans out I would take Ayton if he plays as projected. I think you can pair him and Collins together. I would not trade Collins and a late first to get into the top five.  Prince is an average NBA starter and I think that's his ceiling. A decent 3 and D guy to start.

[GThawks3]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Depending on how the season pans out I would take Ayton if he plays as projected. I think you can pair him and Collins together. I would not trade Collins and a late first to get into the top five.  Prince is an average NBA starter and I think that's his ceiling. A decent 3 and D guy to start.

I’m worried Collins/Ayton would clog the paint. Collins has done much better guarding C’s than PF’s as well. Not sure it’s the best fit. Big reason I want Bagley.

Collins + 22 will not get you a top 5 pick in this draft either way.

[CP61]

I wouldn’t give up Collins for any pick. I’m too invested in him.

[Sothron]

I don't think they would clog the paint. Ayton is like KAT and Jokic, he can shoot the ball wherever he wants. Collins needs to learn how to guard PF since that's where his future will be at in the NBA.

[GThawks3]

21 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I don't think they would clog the paint. Ayton is like KAT and Jokic, he can shoot the ball wherever he wants. Collins needs to learn how to guard PF since that's where his future will be at in the NBA.

I agree but who knows if he’ll ever be able to do that. And PF’s these days need to be able to handle the ball, pass and shoot the ball especially in Bud’s system. I do think Collins will develop into a good mid range/3 point shooter but just not sure about developing the other two skills.

Would you rather have Ayton or Bagley?

[Sothron]

Ayton if he develops. You can't go wrong with centers that are skilled like that. If he's a new KAT or Jokic, yes, give me that ten times out of ten.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, CP61 said:

I wouldn’t give up Collins for any pick. I’m too invested in him.

Is that because we drafted him?  Does he really fit the NBA sylewise?

[CP61]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Is that because we drafted him?  Does he really fit the NBA sylewise?

He’s already in the nba and is doing awesome. Arguing style of play fitting the nba is a debate from a year ago. The guy will always get buckets. Unless there is regression, he will at worst be an incredible 6th man that puts up numbers enough to consistently be in the 6th man of the year conversation. That’s assume no progression to shooting, which has positive signs based on FT%, and defense. 

John Collins is the best thing to happen to the Hawks in a decade. I’d stop being a fan if he were to be traded.

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, CP61 said:

He’s already in the nba and is doing awesome. Arguing style of play fitting the nba is a debate from a year ago. The guy will always get buckets. Unless there is regression, he will at worst be an incredible 6th man that puts up numbers enough to consistently be in the 6th man of the year conversation. That’s assume no progression to shooting, which has positive signs based on FT%, and defense. 

John Collins is the best thing to happen to the Hawks in a decade. I’d stop being a fan if he were to be traded.

COllins is a throwback.  For us to make him useful (winning) is that we would have to build a team that matches his skillset.    That means that we would have to find players that are a little bit different.  We run the risk of becoming a Memphis Grizzlies 2010-2016...  A good team that has good players but these players are not built for this era so they do good but get swept against three point shooting teams. 

[CP61]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

COllins is a throwback.  For us to make him useful (winning) is that we would have to build a team that matches his skillset.    That means that we would have to find players that are a little bit different.  We run the risk of becoming a Memphis Grizzlies 2010-2016...  A good team that has good players but these players are not built for this era so they do good but get swept against three point shooting teams. 

Is he though? Cause he’s a small center. I don’t see why he can’t be a better rebounding Al Horford.

[AHF]

I think what made Memphis distinctive was having two high volume/usage, high minute low post players.   I'm not convinced Collins can't develop more range as a starter and don't think paring him with a rangy big would crush our spacing in this era whether or not he ends up shooting 3s.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

I think what made Memphis distinctive was having two high volume/usage, high minute low post players.   I'm not convinced Collins can't develop more range as a starter and don't think paring him with a rangy big would crush our spacing in this era whether or not he ends up shooting 3s.

I haven't seen otherwise.  He's  like a Zbo...  We'd be looking for a stretch 4 or 5 to put next to him.   He has to improve his defense or we'd have to get a defensive stopper.   We definitely would need a 3 and D guy at the 3..  All of that is possible and really we got a lot of that now and we don't have a winning combination. 

[AHF]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

I haven't seen otherwise.  He's  like a Zbo...  We'd be looking for a stretch 4 or 5 to put next to him.   He has to improve his defense or we'd have to get a defensive stopper.   We definitely would need a 3 and D guy at the 3..  All of that is possible and really we got a lot of that now and we don't have a winning combination. 

Are you suggesting his development is near done as a player or that the team would be a winning combination if he could shoot 3's at a 35% clip?  Those seem like bad reasons to pigeonhole a guy who has shown so much positive work so early in his career.

[Thomas]

Uh, Collins just turned twenty years old a few weeks ago. A bit early to define or suggest this is a snapshot of his entire career path. He has played in just twenty NBA games thus far. I'm definitely expecting some range from his jumper and hoping for a lot more defense as he matures with us. Would like him to have a long career here. 

[Diesel]

21 hours ago, AHF said:

Are you suggesting his development is near done as a player or that the team would be a winning combination if he could shoot 3's at a 35% clip?  Those seem like bad reasons to pigeonhole a guy who has shown so much positive work so early in his career.

No.. but aside from improving his defense, how much better do you think he will get?

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

No.. but aside from improving his defense, how much better do you think he will get?

Who knows?  You have to see.  How much better did Dennis, Sap, etc get from their first 20 games in the league?

Some guys like Faried never get that much better.  Some guys like Kawhi transform.  

I do think the improvement will be quite significant but there is no data that is predictive on it based on the first 20 games.