Jaren Jackson Jr

[davis171]

Just now, AHF said:

Why are you comparing JJJ and Davis?  Their roles are totally different in college.  ADavis >> JJJ.  

That isnt crapping on JJJ.  ADavis was really rare.

BPM is a good measure but not conclusive I mean Sindarius Thornwell led the NCAA in BPM last year that doesn't mean I want him top 3.

[KB21]

9 hours ago, davis171 said:

I don't think he will be a bad player but that is a red flag Ayton is significantly better on offense. I don't give a crap about your BPM you could use any analytic to make a point like PER and win shares Ayton would be significantly better. where would you draft Ayton?

They simply have different roles on offense.  Jaren Jackson is MUCH better defensively, and I buy his shot and playmaking ability off the dribble a lot more than I buy Ayton's.

I'd have Ayton about 5th right now.

[davis171]

34 minutes ago, KB21 said:

They simply have different roles on offense.  Jaren Jackson is MUCH better defensively, and I buy his shot and playmaking ability off the dribble a lot more than I buy Ayton's.

I'd have Ayton about 5th right now.

So by your logic Thornwell (who should have been a first found pick) should have been drafted top 5. The only statistic you showed he lead all NCAA players last year. Izzo is one of the best coaches in the country I'm sure if he had Ayton's offensive capability you would see him dominate games like Ayton has. Ayton has a 4.1 In OWS and a 1.7 in defensive win shares where as JJJ has a 2.2 in offensive and defensive win shares. I'd rather take the later due to knowing he can shoulder a superstar workload game in and game out on offense.

Edited March 1, 2018 by davis171

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, davis171 said:

So by your logic Thornwell (who should have been a first found pick) should have been drafted top 5. The only statistic you showed he lead all NCAA players last year. Izzo is one of the best coaches in the country I'm sure if he had Ayton's offensive capability you would see him dominate games like Ayton has. Ayton has a 4.1 In OWS and a 1.7 in defensive win shares where as JJJ has a 2.2 in offensive and defensive win shares. I'd rather take the later due to knowing he can shoulder a superstar workload game in and game out on offense.

I don't KB is being that reductive.  He likes JJJ's skillset a lot on offense and that outweighs production for him.  He also thinks JJJ is an elite defender (citing the metric to support that).  The production is enough of a warning flag for me that I'd go Ayton but I do agree with KB that his floor seems a lot better than many prospects given his defense and his offensive skills (which would distinguish him from someone like Noel).

[davis171]

Just now, AHF said:

I don't KB is being that reductive.  He likes JJJ's skillset a lot on offense and that outweighs production for him.  He also thinks JJJ is an elite defender (citing the metric to support that).  The production is enough of a warning flag for me that I'd go Ayton but I do agree with KB that his floor seems a lot better than many prospects given his defense and his offensive skills (which would distinguish him from someone like Noel).

Oh I've said 4 is my spot for JJJ I still like the prospect just think Ayton has shown if he hits his ceiling he will be the best player in the draft.

[KB21]

37 minutes ago, davis171 said:

So by your logic Thornwell (who should have been a first found pick) should have been drafted top 5. The only statistic you showed he lead all NCAA players last year. Izzo is one of the best coaches in the country I'm sure if he had Ayton's offensive capability you would see him dominate games like Ayton has. Ayton has a 4.1 In OWS and a 1.7 in defensive win shares where as JJJ has a 2.2 in offensive and defensive win shares. I'd rather take the later due to knowing he can shoulder a superstar workload game in and game out on offense.

You know who else was considered a great offensive center in college that could handle a superstar workload?  Jahlil Okafor, who statistically is more similar to DeAndre Ayton than you are going to want to admit.

[davis171]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You know who else was considered a great offensive center in college that could handle a superstar workload?  Jahlil Okafor, who statistically is more similar to DeAndre Ayton than you are going to want to admit.

How are they similar? Okafor shot 0 3s his entire season in college and shot 51% from the line Ayton shoots 33% from 3 and 75% from the line he also averages more points rebounds and blocks than Okafor did in college. But yeah I guess besides that he is.

Edited March 1, 2018 by davis171

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, davis171 said:

How are they similar? Okafor shot 0 3s his entire season in college and shot 51% from the line Ayton shoots 33% from 3 and 75% from the line he also averages more points rebounds and blocks than Okafor did in college.

Okafor: 64.1% TS, 66.4% eFG, 9.4% AST, 1.5% STL, 4.5% BLK, 27.6% USG, 30.7 PER, 0.235 WS/48, 10.9 BPM, 6.8 OBPM, 4.1 DBPM

Ayton: 65.2% TS, 62.4% eFG, 9.4 AST, 0.8% STL, 6.3% BLK, 26.2% USG, 31.9 PER, 0.254 WS/48, 10.2 BPM, 6.4 OBPM, 3.8 DBPM

[davis171]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Okafor: 64.1% TS, 66.4% eFG, 9.4% AST, 1.5% STL, 4.5% BLK, 27.6% USG, 30.7 PER, 0.235 WS/48, 10.9 BPM, 6.8 OBPM, 4.1 DBPM

Ayton: 65.2% TS, 62.4% eFG, 9.4 AST, 0.8% STL, 6.3% BLK, 26.2% USG, 31.9 PER, 0.254 WS/48, 10.2 BPM, 6.4 OBPM, 3.8 DBPM

I'll bet you a case of mountain Dew Ayton is drafted before JJJ

[KB21]

Just now, davis171 said:

I'll bet you a case of mountain Dew Ayton is drafted before JJJ

I wouldn't doubt it.  This is the same league that took Anthony Bennett with the top pick and Andrew Wiggins with the top pick a year later.

[davis171]

Just now, KB21 said:

I wouldn't doubt it.  This is the same league that took Anthony Bennett with the top pick and Andrew Wiggins with the top pick a year later.

You act like Wiggins shouldn't even be in the NBA when he would be the best player on the hawks right now. You think that a 25% difference in FT percentage doesn't factor? Ayton also turns the ball over less than JJJ and touches it significantly more (he is the 5th scoring option on the team)

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, davis171 said:

You act like Wiggins shouldn't even be in the NBA when he would be the best player on the hawks right now. You think that a 25% difference in FT percentage doesn't factor? Ayton also turns the ball over less than JJJ and touches it significantly more (he is the 5th scoring option on the team)

Andrew Wiggins is an inefficient shot chucker who is a terrible defender.  At best, he's a 4th or 5th man on a good team.  If that's what you want out of a #1 overall pick, then you stand a great chance of getting that with the path the Hawks are taking.

[davis171]

Just now, KB21 said:

Andrew Wiggins is an inefficient shot chucker who is a terrible defender.  At best, he's a 4th or 5th man on a good team.  If that's what you want out of a #1 overall pick, then you stand a great chance of getting that with the path the Hawks are taking.

He is 23 and isn't that exactly what kemba was his first few years. I still think Wiggins can be good dude has a long career ahead.

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, davis171 said:

He is 23 and isn't that exactly what kemba was his first few years. I still think Wiggins can be good dude has a long career ahead.

BTW, I had Joel Embiid as the top overall prospect in that draft, and I had Wiggins and Parker rated around 8 and 9 in that draft.

[davis171]

Just now, KB21 said:

BTW, I had Joel Embiid as the top overall prospect in that draft, and I had Wiggins and Parker rated around 8 and 9 in that draft.

I had Embiid 2 behind Parker who has been good outside of injury. Regardless Ayton is not a similar prospect to Okafor he may end up busting but they have totally different skill sets.

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, davis171 said:

I had Embiid 2 behind Parker who has been good outside of injury. Regardless Ayton is not a similar prospect to Okafor he may end up busting but they have totally different skill sets.

Parker has not been good at all.

[davis171]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Parker has not been good at all.

he averaged 20 ppg on 35% shooting from 3 his 3rd year in the NBA but I guess thats terrible.

Edited March 1, 2018 by davis171

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, davis171 said:

he averaged 20 ppg on 35% shooting from 3 his 2nd year in the NBA but I guess thats terrible.

-2.4 BPM and -0.2 VORP in his second season.

[davis171]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

-2.4 BPM and -0.2 VORP in his second season.

OMG he was atrocious according to 2 stats that factor in wins! His efg% was above 50% he was 21! Ill bet you now he makes SEVERAL all star appearances baring injury keeping him out.

Edited March 1, 2018 by davis171

[davis171]

I'm seriously crying if 20 ppg 6 rpg 3 apg 1 steal at 21 is bad sign me up!

Edited March 1, 2018 by davis171