The Tank Thread

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Royjr9 said:

For one you would have to have a star to attract something not over paid role players. 

Who is the star in Boston?

If you build the team right, players will come. 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Sothron said:

They already won titles so...not sure what your point is.

Something around 96% of tank teams fail to get to championship calibre and you're focused squarely on the two that did AND with that you're denying the impossible circumstances that happened for them to get there. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, jy23 said:

Who mentored lebron? KD? Steph? We really feel like this would’ve been the route to a quicker championship? You’re talking about an mvp player mentoring a number 1 pick who ended up bein the best ever at his position and most people saw greatness in him before he was ever with Robinson. If this is the best that can be done for an alternative to what we’re doin right now then I think we’re on the right path. Sap is a borderline all star and we’re talking about him mentoring the same way a top 50 all time player did. Come on man 

Lebron - Eric Snow. 

KD - Derrick Fisher/Lebron James/Joe Smith. 

Steph - His Daddy. Jarrett Jack.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Duncan becomes a stud whether Robinson is there or not.  Come on.  We claiming all the greats got there because they had injured borderline All-Stars showing them how to put up a net neutral point differential (assuming for the sake of argument that we were better than last year despite Sap being out for most of the year).

IF I remember correctly.. Duncan was on his way to Orlando to hang out with Tmac and Grant Hill if Robinson doesn't bring him to the house for some lemonaide. 

If Duncan leaves Popp then, he never becomes the great player he is now. 

 

[noble]

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Something around 96% of tank teams fail to get to championship calibre and you're focused squarely on the two that did AND with that you're denying the impossible circumstances that happened for them to get there. 

100% of Atlanta Hawks teams have never won a championship, or even been to the finals. 4% seems better than the 0% we were on.

[jy23]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Lebron - Eric Snow. 

KD - Derrick Fisher/Lebron James/Joe Smith. 

Steph - His Daddy. Jarrett Jack.

Wow! Lol this is getting pathetic, you can’t be serious. First of all none of the guys you named were with these guys their rookie year. Most of em weren’t there until at least 3 years down the line. Secondly you’re calling out guys like Joe Smith and Eric Snow lol...the type of guys we could add to this team and STILL be on our way to a successful tank. Why wouldn’t Desmon fit that bill if a joe smith or Eric Snow does? Y’all are truly getting ridiculous with this. This is the best you got man? Sit down somewhere lol

[MaceCase]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

If Sap could've been brought back for 3 yrs / 90 million, that's the offseason move you make.  He's the All-Star player and the team's best defender.  By the time his 3rd year is up, the hope would be for Collins to have learned enough from Millsap to elevate his game to All-Star status.

No, I'll give you the more realistic scenario.  The Hawks would be sitting at 30 wins and fans would be wondering "why is Bud playing Sap or even Dwight over Collins?  They haven't won jack for us and won't be here in another year, we should be focusing on developing the young players instead of hoping to win out and at best sneak in as a 8 seed ready for a 1st round slaughter.  Schlenk should be fired if he can't trade those two this summer!"

We've already seen how both Dwight and Sap have torpedoed their current teams' future prospects without the luxury of providing them current success yet the idea is it'll be different for the Hawks?  Even though we already saw how well they did with a more talented Hawks team? 

You don't spend 90 million or even 60 million for "vet leadership" particularly to a guy who even if healthy should be playing behind the rook halfway into their first season together.  So which is it, have Collins play behind the guy he already has a greater impact than for 3 years or have the most expensive back up in the league? 

[MaceCase]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

IF I remember correctly.. Duncan was on his way to Orlando to hang out with Tmac and Grant Hill if Robinson doesn't bring him to the house for some lemonaide. 

If Duncan leaves Popp then, he never becomes the great player he is now. 

 

No he stayed in San Antonio because Doc screwed it up.

And Pop hasn't looked so hot without Duncan for people to claim he's responsible for his success.  I mean, Duncan was an All Star, 1st Team All NBA, and 2nd Team All Defense his rookie year during Pop's first full season as a coach so which was it?  Pop was a generational rookie head coach (doubtful seeing as he had 17 wins) or was he a great coach of generational talent?

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, noble said:

100% of Atlanta Hawks teams have never won a championship, or even been to the finals. 4% seems better than the 0% we were on.

I agree with you.   AND  we have tried tanking before.  A few times... and it has never worked.  Didn't get us close to championship calibre.   Do we ever learned from our experiences?

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, MaceCase said:

No, I'll give you the more realistic scenario.  The Hawks would be sitting at 30 wins and fans would be wondering "why is Bud playing Sap or even Dwight over Collins?  They haven't won jack for us and won't be here in another year, we should be focusing on developing the young players instead of hoping to win out and at best sneak in as a 8 seed ready for a 1st round slaughter.  Schlenk should be fired if he can't trade those two this summer!"

We've already seen how both Dwight and Sap have torpedoed their current teams' future prospects without the luxury of providing them current success yet the idea is it'll be different for the Hawks?  Even though we already saw how well they did with a more talented Hawks team? 

You don't spend 90 million or even 60 million for "vet leadership" particularly to a guy who even if healthy should be playing behind the rook halfway into their first season together.  So which is it, have Collins play behind the guy he already has a greater impact than for 3 years or have the most expensive back up in the league? 

You play Collins behind the vets, but give him 6th man minutes.  Collins can play both forward and center, so he could've played alongside both Howard or Millsap.  He'd develop a lot more in that situation, than in the current one he's in now.  Bud isn't trying to feature him as a legitimate offensive option, so the vets would teach him how to affect the game, even when he's not the feature.

 If the worst case scenario happened, and the Hawks still weren't a playoff level team, they pick at the end of the lottery and have a chance to get this guy.

 

This is a very deep draft with good players.   But unlike most people, I don't believe you have one or two guys who are sure fire Hall of Famers in this draft.   It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the star of this class was picked outside of the top 5, or even the top 10.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, MaceCase said:

No he stayed in San Antonio because Doc screwed it up.

And Pop hasn't looked so hot without Duncan for people to claim he's responsible for his success.  I mean, Duncan was an All Star, 1st Team All NBA, and 2nd Team All Defense his rookie year during Pop's first full season as a coach so which was it?  Pop was a generational rookie head coach (doubtful seeing as he had 17 wins) or was he a great coach of generational talent?

Quote

Once David Robinson heard that Duncan was seriously considering leaving, he apparently flew back early from his vacation to Hawaii and helped convince him to stay. Duncan himself admitted later that he was “very close” to leaving, but that Robinson swooping in helped persuade him to stay. Ironically, the full-scale marketing blitz that Orlando used to attract Hill and McGrady overwhelmed Duncan and helped convince himto pick a situation where he felt more comfortable. Of all strategies to try with the cargo shorts thought leader, selling fame and glitz probably wasn’t the smartest play.

No time for changing the story now...

[MaceCase]

32 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You play Collins behind the vets, but give him 6th man minutes.  Collins can play both forward and center, so he could've played alongside both Howard or Millsap.  He'd develop a lot more in that situation, than in the current one he's in now.  Bud isn't trying to feature him as a legitimate offensive option, so the vets would teach him how to affect the game, even when he's not the feature.

 If the worst case scenario happened, and the Hawks still weren't a playoff level team, they pick at the end of the lottery and have a chance to get this guy.

 

This is a very deep draft with good players.   But unlike most people, I don't believe you have one or two guys who are sure fire Hall of Famers in this draft.   It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the star of this class was picked outside of the top 5, or even the top 10.

Naw, you're fixated on different parts and failing to make a whole.  Even if I were to subscribe to the idea "young guys have to learn from old guys" you still don't do that at the cost of limiting your team's potential to improve especially when your backup plan is to hope a guy that's mocked to go higher falls to you.  And then what's the plan after that?  Play him behind Baze so he can allegedly develop more?

[MaceCase]

43 minutes ago, Diesel said:

No time for changing the story now...

Quote

“One thing Gregg Popovich didn’t do, Don, is screw it up with Tim Duncan. I remember when Tim was a free agent and he was thinking about going to Orlando when Doc was there … when Tim went out to meet with Orlando, he asked this question: Can family come on the flights to some games. And from what I understand, Doc said, ‘no’ and that’s where he lost Tim Duncan.”

Bowen was a teammate of Duncan’s for eight years, so you have to assume he heard this story directly from Duncan himself.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/12/nba-spurs-magic-bruce-bowen-doc-rivers-mistake-tim-duncan

 

I don't know, hearing from Duncan's teammate and someone who was at the actual meeting lends me to believe there's merit to the story.

[noble]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I agree with you.   AND  we have tried tanking before.  A few times... and it has never worked.  Didn't get us close to championship calibre.   Do we ever learned from our experiences?

 

Different ownership, different GM. At this point I think we can all agree all we want is to have a shot at a ring in our lifetimes. Let's just ride it out like we have before and see what happens.

[davis171]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

Something around 96% of tank teams fail to get to championship calibre and you're focused squarely on the two that did AND with that you're denying the impossible circumstances that happened for them to get there. 

 

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You play Collins behind the vets, but give him 6th man minutes.  Collins can play both forward and center, so he could've played alongside both Howard or Millsap.  He'd develop a lot more in that situation, than in the current one he's in now.  Bud isn't trying to feature him as a legitimate offensive option, so the vets would teach him how to affect the game, even when he's not the feature.

 If the worst case scenario happened, and the Hawks still weren't a playoff level team, they pick at the end of the lottery and have a chance to get this guy.

 

This is a very deep draft with good players.   But unlike most people, I don't believe you have one or two guys who are sure fire Hall of Famers in this draft.   It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the star of this class was picked outside of the top 5, or even the top 10.

You clearly haven't watched enough of the hawks this year. Collins biggest nock is he can't play center due to him seeming to be inept as a rim protector (1.1bpg) which is why a lot of mocks have us pairing bigs like JJJ and Bamba who project out as good rim protectors. Mikal Bridges (Thought you only wanted PG) is good he isn't close to Luka, Ayton, Porter, JJJ, Bamba, and Bagley as a prospect. Worst case my ass they probably wouldn't make it regardless. So lets go with you all's dream scenario we barely slide in as an 8 seed way over the cap with no flexibility and a non lottery pick. Please explain what you would do a year later to try and improve the maybe 8 seed, because clearly you are brighter than the guys being paid millions to do this. This guy needs to be in a hawks uniform next year.

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by davis171

[KB21]

56 minutes ago, noble said:

Different ownership, different GM. At this point I think we can all agree all we want is to have a shot at a ring in our lifetimes. Let's just ride it out like we have before and see what happens.

They have killed any chance they have at a ring by tanking.

[Royjr9]

12 hours ago, Diesel said:

Who is the star in Boston?

If you build the team right, players will come. 

Kyrie is obviously there star. But what did they accumulate to get kyrie.  And better yet who is coming up big for them two lotto picks in Tatum and brown.  Although not a lotto pick Rozier ( he was acquired in ther short tank season. Marcus smart a lotto pick as well. 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, MaceCase said:

I don't know, hearing from Duncan's teammate and someone who was at the actual meeting lends me to believe there's merit to the story.

It can easily be both.   Maybe Doc not allowing Family made Tim Duncan not want to go to Orlando as much while Robinson leaving his vacation in Hawaii made Duncan want to stay put in San Antonio. 

 

[Diesel]

16 minutes ago, Royjr9 said:

Kyrie is obviously there star. But what did they accumulate to get kyrie.  And better yet who is coming up big for them two lotto picks in Tatum and brown.  Although not a lotto pick Rozier ( he was acquired in ther short tank season. Marcus smart a lotto pick as well. 

Kyrie wasn't there this past offseason (when Gordon signed) or the offseason before that or the offseason before that when they got Horf.

What Boston did was build a team (much like we used to have) and because of that players want to  play for them.   The truth is that players want to go to teams that win... not necessarily to teams with a star.   After the fallout of Shaq and Kobe, not a lot of players wanted to play with Kobe.   But they didn't have to tank to get rings either. 

 

 

 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, MaceCase said:

I don't know, hearing from Duncan's teammate and someone who was at the actual meeting lends me to believe there's merit to the story.

  I posted a quote where Duncan HiMSELF admitted that Robinson flying back from his vacation Helped persaude him to stay...