The Tank Thread

[nathan2331]

 

 

....and now we definitely will not have a chance to win a championship, because this team is so far away from the playoffs that you can just imagine that they will never get back to that level again.  At some point, regression to the mean will happen like it did in Philadelphia this year, but it isn't going to be because the Hawks decided to intentionally lose games, which is just the most atrocious thing I can think of when it comes to sports and competition.  I put tanking at the same level as abortion with just how vile and inhumane it is as a strategy.  

 

So the Sixer's draft picks had nothing to do with their teams success? It was just "regression to the mean"? You know that's not true.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

So the Sixer's draft picks had nothing to do with their teams success? It was just "regression to the mean"? You know that's not true.

Their strategy to tank has nothing to do with the success they had this past season, which I don't believe is sustainable because out of 5 high lottery picks, they got only 2 players who can actually play.  All that losing for just two players.

[GThawks3]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

....and now we definitely will not have a chance to win a championship, because this team is so far away from the playoffs that you can just imagine that they will never get back to that level again.  At some point, regression to the mean will happen like it did in Philadelphia this year, but it isn't going to be because the Hawks decided to intentionally lose games, which is just the most atrocious thing I can think of when it comes to sports and competition.  I put tanking at the same level as abortion with just how vile and inhumane it is as a strategy.  

That’s becasue you’re ok with being a treadmill team. We’ve already established this.

And we’ve never won one game past the 2nd round but you’re talking about championships? Lmao. That 60 win team is the best Hawks team in history and was swept by an injured Cavs team. You can’t seriously think we’d have any chance to beat the Warriors anytime soon.

[h4wkfan]

28 minutes ago, thecampster said:

that would be the scout, scout, scout part.

Manu Ginobilli - 57th pick

Tony Parker - 28th pick

Luis Scola - 55th pick

Leandro Barbosa - 28th pick

Tiago Splitter - 28th pick

Goran Dragic 45th pick

George Hill 26th pick

 

Lottery picks since 1998 - 0

1997 - they drafted Tim Duncan #1 overall...because David Robinson missed 76 games due to injuries, Chuck Person missed the entire year with back issues and the team lost over 300 player games total to injury.

You have to go back to 1987, 1988, 1989 to see them in the lottery. Their lowest pick during this time other than their 4 total lottery appearances in 30 years...18.  Yes, this team managed to draft lower than 18 only 4 times in 30 years but have been perennial contenders.  Scout, scout, scout. buy low, sell high.

Oh I agree their scouting is top notch. But that Tim Duncan pick is the difference between a dynasty and not. One of the top 10 GOATs will do that for you. 

I'm just saying. It's not one or the other. You have to have that superstar talent and then supplement with the buy low sell high, insane scouting, etc in order to maintain that success. 

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, GThawks3 said:

That’s becasue you’re ok with being a treadmill team. We’ve already established this.

And we’ve never won one game past the 2nd round but you’re talking about championships? Lmao. That 60 win team is the best Hawks team in history and was swept by an injured Cavs team. You can’t seriously think we’d have any chance to beat the Warriors anytime soon.

And you actually think that by intentionally losing games and committing to multiple years of losing that the Hawks will be able to luck into enough talent in the draft to build a team that can be the only team who gets passed LeBron in the East or beats Golden State in the West?

All I see is the attitude where you say "Well, since we can't beat them, we should just give up."

You say I'm OK with being a treadmill team.  If my choice is to be a perennial playoff team or a perennial lottery team, you bet I'm going to take being the playoff team.  So that must mean that you are OK with being a perennial lottery team like the Sacramento Kings.

[Dragitoff]

51 minutes ago, thecampster said:

You take the fun out of everything. Next you're going to tell me I have say please and thank you....grumble, grumble, whine, moan 

I am a father of 6 so I spend virtually every second of every day trying to get my kids to act like decent humans.  It works approximately 12% of the time.  lol

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

Oh I agree their scouting is top notch. But that Tim Duncan pick is the difference between a dynasty and not. One of the top 10 GOATs will do that for you. 

I'm just saying. It's not one or the other. You have to have that superstar talent and then supplement with the buy low sell high, insane scouting, etc in order to maintain that success. 

So, who are the stud superstar, top 10 GOAT types that have been drafted in the era of the one and done college player drafts?  Let's just look at the past few years.  #1 pick in 2014 -- Andrew Wiggins.  Wow!  Stud!  Contributes absolutely nothing to winning, is an inefficient offensive player and poor defender.  #2 pick in 2014 -- Jabari Parker.  Injury prone and not that good when healthy.  Terrible defender.  #2 pick in 2015 -- D'Angelo Russell has already been traded by the team that drafted him.  #3 pick in 2015 is Jahlil Okafor, who has been traded and really has no future in the NBA with how the league has gone.  #2 pick in 2016 -- Brandon Ingram.  Net negative player who contributes nothing to winning.

This is your most likely outcome.  You are far more likely to get an Andrew Wiggins/Jahlil Okafor/D'Angelo Russell/Brandon Ingram than you are a Tim Duncan or Kevin Durant.  In fact, the Sacramento Kings idiocy when it comes to their ability to manage their team is a reason the Hawks aren't going to make the mistake of taking the guy who is this year's Andrew Wiggins in Marvin Bagley.

[GThawks3]

Just now, KB21 said:

And you actually think that by intentionally losing games and committing to multiple years of losing that the Hawks will be able to luck into enough talent in the draft to build a team that can be the only team who gets passed LeBron in the East or beats Golden State in the West?

All I see is the attitude where you say "Well, since we can't beat them, we should just give up."

You say I'm OK with being a treadmill team.  If my choice is to be a perennial playoff team or a perennial lottery team, you bet I'm going to take being the playoff team.  So that must mean that you are OK with being a perennial lottery team like the Sacramento Kings.

Anybody that is ok with losing in the first round and 2nd round for 10 straight years doesn’t care about championships. The Hawks tried your way and didn’t win one game past the 2nd round but let’s keep down the same path! 

And please stop with the dumb comparisons. Bagley will never learn improve his defense because Wiggins hasn’t. Bamba will never be a good shooter because Ben Simmons hasn’t. Hawks are tanking so now they’re trying to be the Kings. 

[GThawks3]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So, who are the stud superstar, top 10 GOAT types that have been drafted in the era of the one and done college player drafts?  Let's just look at the past few years.  #1 pick in 2014 -- Andrew Wiggins.  Wow!  Stud!  Contributes absolutely nothing to winning, is an inefficient offensive player and poor defender.  #2 pick in 2014 -- Jabari Parker.  Injury prone and not that good when healthy.  Terrible defender.  #2 pick in 2015 -- D'Angelo Russell has already been traded by the team that drafted him.  #3 pick in 2015 is Jahlil Okafor, who has been traded and really has no future in the NBA with how the league has gone.  #2 pick in 2016 -- Brandon Ingram.  Net negative player who contributes nothing to winning.

This is your most likely outcome.  You are far more likely to get an Andrew Wiggins/Jahlil Okafor/D'Angelo Russell/Brandon Ingram than you are a Tim Duncan or Kevin Durant.  In fact, the Sacramento Kings idiocy when it comes to their ability to manage their team is a reason the Hawks aren't going to make the mistake of taking the guy who is this year's Andrew Wiggins in Marvin Bagley.

Anthony Davis? Joel Embiid? I’m shocked you cherry picked all the recent top picks that haven’t panned out but exclude Davis and Embiid.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, GThawks3 said:

Anthony Davis? Joel Embiid? I’m shocked you cherry picked all the recent top picks that haven’t panned out but exclude Davis and Embiid.

So, since championships are what you are measuring success by, how many championships do Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid have?

[KB21]

And the reason I excluded Embiid and Davis is that getting one of those two is not your most likely outcome of drafting in the top 3.  Getting an Andrew Wiggins type is.  

With that said, getting Embiid/Davis obviously isn't enough to build a championship team.  So, if you are lucky enough to land one, you have to hope you are lucky enough to land another two.  When you take into account that the probability shows that you are unlikely to get just one of those types of players, it pretty much means you are going to spend an eternity in the lottery in an attempt to get just two of them, and you will be mixing in the Nerlens Noels, Jahlil Okafors, and Markelle Fultzs as you continue to hit the most likely outcome of drafting high as opposed to actually getting the All NBA type of player.

[Royjr9]

Damn everyday I wake up to the same thing KB discrediting somebody because of some imaginary goal post that he keeps moving. In other news a lil off topic but Dwight is on the move to brooklyn. Kemp’s could be next which means we prolly could mo e Dennis if charlottes asking price is to high.

[GThawks3]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So, since championships are what you are measuring success by, how many championships do Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid have?

Well Davis is only 25 and Embiid is only 24 years old...pretty sure Lebron/Curry didn’t have any championships at that age.

Two superstars thanks to what? Oh that’s right tanking. And I would take their teams coming up over any Hawks team in the past 11 years. If we’re lucky we can draft a player of that caliber some day...hopefully tommorow.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, GThawks3 said:

Well Davis is only 25 and Embiid is only 24 years old...pretty sure Lebron/Curry didn’t have any championships at that age.

Two superstars thanks to what? Oh that’s right tanking. And I would take their teams coming up over any Hawks team in the past 11 years. If we’re lucky we can draft a player of that caliber some day...hopefully tommorow.

Oh, I'm sure you would because of this myth that they are championship contenders when they clearly aren't.  But hey, we have to continue to push this myth that you have to accept losing for multiple years and establish a losing culture to build a championship team.

[nathan2331]

 

 

Oh, I'm sure you would because of this myth that they are championship contenders when they clearly aren't.  But hey, we have to continue to push this myth that you have to accept losing for multiple years and establish a losing culture to build a championship team.

 

Culture isn't as important as talent in basketball. You can sign two free agents and become a playoff team, you still won't go anywhere.

[KB21]

Just now, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

Culture isn't as important as talent in basketball. You can sign two free agents and become a playoff team, you still won't go anywhere.

Culture is the most important aspect in any sport.

[Vol4ever]

I dont see a Anthony Davis superstar player in this draft, so what good did tanking do this year?  Yea we will get younger but will be inexperienced.  

[GThawks3]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Oh, I'm sure you would because of this myth that they are championship contenders when they clearly aren't.  But hey, we have to continue to push this myth that you have to accept losing for multiple years and establish a losing culture to build a championship team.

Philly will be a championship contender very soon with Simmons and Embiid. (barring injuries) Not sure how you can deny that. And Pelicans without Cousins at least took a game off the Warriors. Lebron and the Cavs  couldn’t even do that.

Like i said I would still take both of those team over any Hawks team in the past 11 years. They at least have a superstar player that they got thanks to tanking. 

[GThawks3]

2 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

I dont see a Anthony Davis superstar player in this draft, so what good did tanking do this year?  Yea we will get younger but will be inexperienced.  

So you have to get another Anthony Davis at #3 for it to be a successful pick?

And what would losing in the 1st round again have gotten us? 

[GThawks3]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Culture is the most important aspect in any sport.

Losing in the 1st round or 2nd round every year is losing culture.