Next Bud rumor: New York Knicks

[Watchman]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all just keep making excuse after excuse for this dude!!!  No one is forcing Bud to do the things he is currently doing.  Management is not delusional about Bud's value..Bud is over valuing his importance in the NBA all by himself.  The cold reality will hit Bud at some point and he will realize that he is not in as much demand as he thinks because his resume is not all that great.  Aside from a marvelous 1 month during his career, his record has been close to .500...Not good.  I actually hope someone wants Bud and is willing to give up compensation.  But even I know that at this point it will be highly unlikely.  He will likely serve out his last 2 years here and continue a mediocre career with another team cause ain't no stars recommending his services to their GM's.

Clearly Ressler doesn't want Bud here, otherwise there would be no reason to allow him to interview.  He just wants to capitalize on the opportunity to get another draft pick instead of having to fire him and pay the contract in full.

[Watchman]

2 hours ago, Royjr9 said:

I don’t think bud is in position to tell anybody anything. His current situation is all on him. I mean he asked for permission to interview.  His contract demands prolly won’t get met. Although I’m hoping New York sells him the world because I don’t want anyone that doesn’t want to be a hawk here.

His current situation is all on Ressler and his toadie Slinky.

[Watchman]

2 hours ago, Royjr9 said:

I don’t think bud is in position to tell anybody anything. His current situation is all on him. I mean he asked for permission to interview.  His contract demands prolly won’t get met. Although I’m hoping New York sells him the world because I don’t want anyone that doesn’t want to be a hawk here.

How (or why) do you think Bud asked for permission to interview?  Phoenix would have had to make in initial contact to obtain permission.  Otherwise it would be tampering.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

Clearly Ressler doesn't want Bud here, otherwise there would be no reason to allow him to interview.  He just wants to capitalize on the opportunity to get another draft pick instead of having to fire him and pay the contract in full.

Who knows how Ressler feels about Bud but the organization would give him up for a draft pick then find someone just as good or better.

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Who knows how Ressler feels about Bud but the organization would give him up for a draft pick then find someone just as good or better.

Like Ferry and Slinky?

[Royjr9]

44 minutes ago, Watchman said:

How (or why) do you think Bud asked for permission to interview?  Phoenix would have had to make in initial contact to obtain permission.  Otherwise it would be tampering.

He’s under contract and asked for permission to interview in Phoenix and god only knows where else. He is not on board with rebuilding it seems even though his gym descisions or lack ther of put the team in the position it is today. Like I said he can’t complain. He wants out clearly and Schlenk and ressler are happy to oblige him and not hold him hostage. Like I said earlier I’m fine with bud the coach but his power play that he’s seeking prolly won’t happen. I just asked that it get done and over with either he’s staying or going.

[marco102]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

This fan base is baffling...While other coaches are hoisting trophies and competing like Brad Stevens, this fan base continues to think that their coach is superior to those coaches.  Just confusing!

This assumption that Brad Stephens is better than Bud is baffling.  What's Stephen's record against a Bud coached team, before this year of course?  Also, how many lottery picks does Stephens has on his teams compared to Bud.  

I'm honestly exhausted with this entire situation, but give Brad Stephens some of Buds rosters and you would probably get similar results. 

What makes Brad so much better than Bud other than the talent on his team?

[Peoriabird]

26 minutes ago, marco102 said:

What makes Brad so much better than Bud other than the talent on his team?

His record...Who did Brad Stevens have last year?  This year with 2 all stars are down and they will still win in the 1st round

[marco102]

28 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

His record...Who did Brad Stevens have last year?  This year with 2 all stars are down and they will still win in the 1st round

With less talent Bud pushed the number 1 seed to seven games.  

Like I said Brad has lottery talent up and down his roster.  Bud had Horford and no one else.  Then Dwight and now Tauren.  

My point isn't with your dislike of Bud, but to use that Boston coach is horrible for you as a Hawks fan.  

They've taken their teams to the exact same place,ECF and got identical treatment. 

I don't care about regular season wins and losses, but Bud has a winning record against Stephens,  if Stephens gets this team to the Eastern Conference Finals, I would say he is better than Bud.  Until then they are even. 

Also, Buds win/loss record took a big hit this year.

Edited April 22, 2018 by marco102

[parfait]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

...and I will tell you that it will not work out that way.  For one, unless this team signs some quality vets this off season that aren't just roster filler like what Schlenk signed this off season, 30 plus wins for this team is a pipe dream.  This team is going to be worse in year two than they are in year one.

 

They signed a couple of solid veterans last offseason in Dedmon and Ilysova, both averaging 10 pts per game with a PER rating of over 15 each, with Dedmon rebounding 7.9 a game in 24 minutes. Belinelli was acquired via trade, and he made for a valuable 6th man for Atlanta and now Philly. These were quality vets and were much more than roster filler.

This upcoming offseason, with every other team except the Hawks and 4 others being in salary cap hell, there will be even less options for a number of these quality veterans, not to mention the potential for the Hawks absorbing quality veterans with bad contracts via trade. There should be an abundance of available quality veterans to come to one of the very few teams with cap space, Atlanta. And Schlenk has said, as long as they have manageable contracts, he will welcome them.

This influx of quality veterans to go with Bazemore, combined with continued growth from Collins, Prince, Dorsey, and Schröder, should make an increase of 6+ wins next year more than attainable.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

With less talent Bud pushed the number 1 seed to seven games.  

Like I said Brad has lottery talent up and down his roster.  Bud had Horford and no one else.  Then Dwight and now Tauren.  

My point isn't with your dislike of Bud, but to use that Boston coach is horrible for you as a Hawks fan.  

They've taken there teams to the exact same place. 

I don't care about wins and losses if Stephens gets this team to the Eastern Conference Finals, I would say he is better than Bud.  Until then they are even. 

5 years and nothing to show for it...Bud even had control over personnel for 2 of them and team got worse

[marco102]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

5 years and nothing to show for it...Bud even had control over personnel for 2 of them and team got worse

We are talking coaching here, don't move that goal post.  Brad Stephens has 4 years and nothing to show for it.   So you proved my point they are at a MINIMUM even as far as coaching goes.  If Bud was in Boston, the hype machine would say he's the best coach in the league.  

Like I said, I don't have a problem with your disdain for Bud just don't say Brad Stephens is better when their resumes are nearly identical and one's roster is better than the others at this point.

[Peoriabird]

17 minutes ago, marco102 said:

We are talking coaching here, don't move that goal post.  Brad Stephens has 4 years and nothing to show for it.   So you proved my point they are at a MINIMUM even as far as coaching goes.  If Bud was in Boston, the hype machine would say he's the best coach in the league.  

Like I said, I don't have a problem with your disdain for Bud just don't say Brad Stephens is better when their resumes are nearly identical and one's roster is better than the others at this point.

1st of all, I don't have a disdain for Bud...Just think that he is overrated by this message board to the point where if the owners of the team and GM don't think he is that good, They must be crazy.  Someone even suggest Phoenix was crazy for not hiring him.  You even said that the team needs more talent but Bud doesn't agree...He preferred business as usual.  So if the dude only want to coach a bunch of mediocre vets to 45 wins and is happy, give me a mid round pick and a new coach!

[marco102]

22 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

1st of all, I don't have a disdain for Bud...Just think that he is overrated by this message board to the point where if the owners of the team and GM don't think he is that good, They must be crazy.  Someone even suggest Phoenix was crazy for not hiring him.  You even said that the team needs more talent but Bud doesn't agree...He preferred business as usual.  So if the dude only want to coach a bunch of mediocre vets to 45 wins and is happy, give me a mid round pick and a new coach!

Not attacking you on that point. Like I said dont sit here and say Brad Stephens is better than Bud when that is not the case. They've done the exact same thing, reached the eastern conference finals.

You are starting to act like someone you always complain about, with your inability to just say, that you used a bit of hyperbole when comparing them. That's is the only point I am making.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Not attacking you on that point. Like I said dont sit here and say Brad Stephens is better than Bud when that is not the case. They've done the exact same thing, reached the eastern conference finals.

You are starting to act like someone you always complain about, with your inability to just say, that you used a bit of hyperbole when comparing them. That's is the only point I am making.

At the very least, Stevens understands what Championship talent is suppose to look like so he endorsed build thru the draft with the acquisition of key free agents at the right time to make that run...Bud thought that Millsap and some other non star or barely all star was enough.  Schlenks gets here and says this is a good draft and we need to get a top 5 pick but Bud is confused.  So give me Stevens over a coach that doesn't understand the business any day of the week!

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

At the very least, Stevens understands what Championship talent is suppose to look like so he endorsed build thru the draft with the acquisition of key free agents at the right time to make that run...Bud thought that Millsap and some other non star or barely all star was enough.  Schlenks gets here and says this is a good draft and we need to get a top 5 pick but Bud is confused.  So give me Stevens over a coach that doesn't understand the business any day of the week!

That is not the point. Their resumes are exactly the same so why can't u admit that they are even. Unless you have some disdain for Bud that you keep denying. If you look throughout this thread,  you can see it. I dont want to quote all your posts to prove my point. However, if you think so highly of Stephens, who has the same accomplishments as Bud, the coach, then how is the rest of the board baffling for valuing Bud?

Also, stephens didnt endorse crap. He was brought in for the rebuild.

Edited April 22, 2018 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

21 minutes ago, marco102 said:

That is not the point. Their resumes are exactly the same so why can't u admit that they are even. Unless you have some disdain for Bud that you keep denying. If you look throughout this thread,  you can see it. I dont want to quote all your posts to prove my point. However, if you think so highly of Stephens, who has the same accomplishments as Bud, the coach, then how is the rest of the board baffling for valuing Bud?

                                    win-loss              winning percentage           playoff wins-losses          Playoff winning%

Brad Stevens             221-189                        53.9%                              13-18                                            41.9%

Bud                             213-197                        52%                                  17-22                                           43.6%

 

Based on the records above, Bud and Stevens have very similar results.  But my threads haven't been about Brad Stevens...I mention the guy once.  The major difference is that Brad has been working with young players and Bud prefers older vets.  The team is trying to get younger which Bud wants no part of.  If that is the case, management needs to find someone like Stevens to take Bud's place plain and simple.

[hazer]

22 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

~u2

 

[marco102]

20 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

                                    win-loss              winning percentage           playoff wins-losses          Playoff winning%

Brad Stevens             221-189                        53.9%                              13-18                                            41.9%

Bud                             213-197                        52%                                  17-22                                           43.6%

 

Based on the records above, Bud and Stevens have very similar results.  But my threads haven't been about Brad Stevens...I mention the guy once.  The major difference is that Brad has been working with young players and Bud prefers older vets.  The team is trying to get younger which Bud wants no part of.  If that is the case, management needs to find someone like Stevens to take Bud's place plain and simple.

Okay, I think I misinterpreted you a bit. You said we THINK BUD is superior to Brad Stevens and you're saying he's not.   Which I do agree with and my apologies for my rant. 

I loose all control when someone says something good about Boston sports.

[hazer]

6 hours ago, parfait said:

You know what's a reasonable amount of time?...more than just 1 year, lol. I would say at least 3 years. In fact, what if I told you that this rebuild is not the endless, slow-burn of a rebuild that you are assuming it to be. What if the parameters of the rebuild are as follows:

Year 1 ('17-18): Tank majorly, but remain competitive/entertaining, Sign quality veterans to value 1 year contracts. Accumulate draft capital - ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED.

Year 2 ('18-19): Accumulate further draft capital via taking on bad contracts no greater than 2 years. Develop current youngsters. Integrate more quality rookies. Sign quality veterans to value 1 year contracts. - SHOOT FOR 30+ WINS.

Year 3 ('19-20): Accumulate further draft capital via taking on bad contracts no greater than 1 year. Develop youngsters further. Integrate a couple of more rookies. Sign quality veterans to value 1 year contracts. - SHOOT FOR 40+ WINS/PLAYOFF CONTENTION.

Year 4 ('20-21): The Schröder, Plumlee, and Bazemore contracts have expired. A bevy of youngsters have been developed. Sign 1-2 impact free agents the summer of '20 with massive capspace. - SOLID EASTERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFF TEAM.

Of course, they have to pick the right players. But accumulating more #1's provides better odds to do so. And they need to continue to develop players as they have. But, if they were a borderline playoff team by '19-20, and a solid playoff team by '20-21, wouldn't that be reasonable? I believe so, and I believe that this is in fact Schlenk's timeline based on the length of their current contracts.

Precisely. Several of us have been saying this same 3-year timeline for months, you’re wasting your breath trying to convince some...