Houston Rockets vs. Golden State Warriors: Which Model will we follow?

[enrique]

Read a very interesting article https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2019/9/12/20840203/atlanta-hawks-roster-building-blueprint-model-houston-rockets-trae-young-golden-state-warriors making a case that ATL has a better opportunity to follow the model of the Harden-led Rockets rather than the HOF-laden Warriors. 

Here is a nice summary conclusion from the article, but I highly recommend the read...there are some stats and points made that were very eye-opening for me.

It is important for fans to realize that the Warriors model essentially can’t be copied but, at the same time, the Hawks can “copy” the Rockets. Ultimately, the whole point of team building is to build a contender, not to win a title. The margins for winning a championship are tiny. But how a front office positions a team to be in the right place to benefit from when the ball finally bounces your way is the point of the process. Control what you can control. 

Atlanta has a road map for what they need to do, but they need to use the right one.

[Diesel]

I have to agree that the Warriors model and OKC  and Philly's models can't be duplicated. 

First off, GS was about to trade Curry on Draft night.  You can't recreate how Draymond improved.   

The Houston Model is really a lot of knee Jerk reactions.   We can do that. 

[NBASupes]

I think we are model after GS but our style is Philly mixed with Moreyball

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Their teams formed differently, but to me, the Houston and GS systems are the same.  Houston is Harden's team and GS is Curry's and both guys are surrounded by talent... but building a contender involves both the draft and being active in the trade & free agent markets. Toronto is proof and point.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

Their teams formed differently, but to me, the Houston and GS systems are the same.  Houston is Harden's team and GS is Curry's and both guys are surrounded by talent... but building a contender involves both the draft and being active in the trade & free agent markets. Toronto is proof and point.

Idk about this one chief. They run a different system to me. One team runs a shitload of actions while the other team mainly dominates an iso like system where backdoor cuts and screens are heavily featured 

 

To me, we look like Philly mixed with a lot of Moreyball philosophies 

Edited September 13, 2019 by NBASupes

[Thomas]

People have mentioned it before that the Nash Sun's teams may be more of what we look like now but personally think that will evolve with our newcomers elevating our D a great deal. Give them some game time of course. Trae+JC vs Nash+Amar'e comparison is already obvious but still feel TS has the GSW thing going on in his head. Bruno will be our Draymond at some point and our backcourt already is pretty similar to GSW's but believe our's will be growing exponentially. It has to on the D side of things.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Idk about this one chief. They run a different system to me. One team runs a shitload of actions while the other team mainly dominates an iso like system where backdoor cuts and screens are heavily featured 

 

To me, we look like Philly mixed with a lot of Moreyball philosophies 

I was speaking more to the philosophy used to build their teams.  One was built through the draft and free agents, while the other was built mostly through trades... but in essence, both teams rely on their #1.

[JayBirdHawk]

How about We'll follow our own model, have our own blueprint.

[enrique]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How about We'll follow our own model, have our own blueprint.

No doubt that is what every team ultimately has to do...and it looks to me that we are having to do that as well. No doubt, Trae has been as good as we had hoped for a rookie. It was great that he slowly gathered momentum and learned how to run an NBA offense last year! No one knew what his D would be like, now we do:) So Schlenk has done the best thing possible IMO and leveraged assets to bring in potential "perfect pieces" to place around Trae and Collins. Time will tell (and only time can tell) what we have in Hunter, Cam, Bruno, etc., but they were logical selections in light of our roster and system. They are the actions that show me we are building a team with a vision and principles.

There are guiding principles and values that each contender has employed to arrive at their level. While some teams have stumbled into success by drafting BPA and hitting on a few, others have chosen a player and then built concentrically around them to have an integrated system with enough skilled players to pull it off. I agree with the writer of the article in his take that assembling the sheer volume of potential HOF talent that is the GSWs is NOT a replicable model. Therefore when we look at the pieces at Houston, we see less potential HOF talent yet a team that barring some odd calls and injuries could have beaten the GSW in the 2018 WCF (Note: I am not living in the coulda-shoulda-woulda land here...GSW won vs Houston in 2018, but no one would call it lopsided). In other words, Houston put together a contender by any measuring stick...both regular season as well as playoffs. That is hopefully what we are doing too! 

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by enrique
I can't spell:)

[enrique]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Idk about this one chief. They run a different system to me. One team runs a shitload of actions while the other team mainly dominates an iso like system where backdoor cuts and screens are heavily featured 

 

To me, we look like Philly mixed with a lot of Moreyball philosophies 

As far as systems go, I think you are right on it! 

One of the things that surprised me with Trae last year was his ability to get into the paint, draw fouls and even finish in traffic. I had no idea his floater was going to actually work I am very interested to see how his "added strength" translate in the two arenas of penetration/finishing and defense. I truly hope both areas are net gains for him this season.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How about We'll follow our own model, have our own blueprint.

Ya we’ve been over this. We are us. F the scrubs and their dumb lil fans.

[Thomas]

OK, I am not the crazy one, its everyone else in the room...right? Moving forward think we will see that what is in Schlenk's head is Trae, Huerter, Hunter and Bruno will be very similar to Steph, Klay, Iggy and Draymond. TS already experimented with what he thought would be a poor man's clone of Draymond in Omari. Reset that with Bruno looking ahead. Believe our passing game will eclipse the Warrior's passing game at some point. Trae is actually already there himself. All this we are pioneering conversation does not seem accurate to me. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, enrique said:

No doubt that is what every team ultimately has to do...and it looks to me that we are having to do that as well. No doubt, Trae has been as good as we had hoped for a rookie. It was great that he slowly gathered momentum and learned how to run an NBA offense last year! No one knew what his D would be like, now we do:) So Schlenk has done the best thing possible IMO and leveraged assets to bring in potential "perfect pieces" to place around Trae and Collins. Time will tell (and only time can tell) what we have in Hunter, Cam, Bruno, etc., but they were logical selections in light of our roster and system. They are the actions that show me we are building a team with a vision and principles.

There are guiding principles and values that each contender has employed to arrive at their level. While some teams have stumbled into success by drafting BPA and hitting on a few, others have chosen a player and then built concentrically around them to have an integrated system with enough skilled players to pull it off. I agree with the writer of the article in his take that assembling the sheer volume of potential HOF talent that is the GSWs is NOT a replicable model. Therefore when we look at the pieces at Houston, we see less potential HOF talent yet a team that barring some odd calls and injuries could have beaten the GSW in the 2018 WCF (Note: I am not living in the coulda-shoulda-woulda land here...GSW won vs Houston in 2018, but no one would call it lopsided). In other words, Houston put together a contender by any measuring stick...both regular season as well as playoffs. That is hopefully what we are doing too! 

 

There is no one model - sometimes it's the luck of the draw, timing, injuries to own team or opposing team.

When GSW was put together (drafting) no one saw them as having all these future HOFs though - but are they all really future HOFs besides Steph n KD?

No one saw Toronto winning trading for 1 year of Kawhi. 

Houston just traded CP2 who was supposed to be who got them over the hump for Westbrook.

[hazer]

The Hawks are creating a model, not following one. In the future, fans will be tossing around the “Hawks Model” in rebuilding conversations. It’s a hybrid of how Suns/Dubs/Rockets were built and play. But it’s different. It’s the Hawks

[AHF]

Houston seems the farthest from us in terms of how they built their team and how we have built this team to date.  Clint Capela may be the only rotation player they have actually drafted.

[hazer]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Houston seems the farthest from us in terms of how they built their team and how we have built this team to date.  Clint Capela may be the only rotation player they have actually drafted.

That will very likely change if/when Schlenk eventually utilizes that double-max available cap space on a star FA and trade. Which he set us up for, by design. Waiting to pounce...

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, hazer said:

That will very likely change if/when Schlenk eventually utilizes that double-max available cap space on a star FA and trade. Which he set us up for, by design. Waiting to pounce...

It will be interesting for sure.  Houston traded some young guys and draft picks; GS added Iggy and KD with cap space.  We could trade picks, players or use space or some combination of the same.

[enrique]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There is no one model - sometimes it's the luck of the draw, timing, injuries to own team or opposing team.

When GSW was put together (drafting) no one saw them as having all these future HOFs though - but are they all really future HOFs besides Steph n KD?

No one saw Toronto winning trading for 1 year of Kawhi. 

Houston just traded CP2 who was supposed to be who got them over the hump for Westbrook.

Absolutely! That’s my point and thought exactly. You can’t predict off metrics who will be “lightning in a bottle” and who will be a bust. That’s why I’m glad we have taken some calculated risks based off solid metrics and then chosen to build around a “core.” Hoping we see steps forward individually and collectively this year. Then what TS and team can finagle on the FA side will possibly be the ultimate decider of this teams ceiling. 

[gurpilo]

It is not just luck, it's to find the pieces that fit together and have the flexibility for it. You can nearly plug and play any SF or C at GS because they already have the passing, shooting and defense with Curry, Thompson and Green.

Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam also allow a lot of flexibility, anyway FVV, Ibaka, Gasol were fantastic additions.

I think Young, Huerter, Hunter and Collins might become also a good fit. If Reddish explodes Young, Reddish, Hunter and Collins might be even better core

[Diesel]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How about We'll follow our own model, have our own blueprint.

that never works!