Hunter vs Reddish

[Spud2nique]

Cam 2/3

Hunter 3/4

 

Two future defensive monsters for your Atlanta Hawks. All I know is I’m excited for some D. ... fense! Seriously we haven’t had real vitamin D since 99 with Deke and Mook. That was a pg and a c, this is a two wang scenario. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

19 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

As I sift through many of the proposed wing trade/free agent signings scenarios, one primary assumption always rears its ugly head which is Reddish is better than Hunter and should start at small forward if a high priced guard is brought on board.  This notion kinda bothers me so I want to start a thread addressing this very issue.  I know Hunter is older and doesn't possess Reddish's guard skills but he does offer other advantages namely being bigger and stronger with a more mature game.  I know a lot of you will want to put up second half of the season offensive stats that might be in Reddish's favor to prove your point but I would still maintain that Hunter still is the more mature fundamentally sound player right now and most experts would agree outside of Atlanta.  I'm not saying that Hunter does have flaws in his game that he needs some work like his handle and off the ball defense but right now, he has fewer flaws in his game than Reddish. Bottom line is that I think that Hunter remains a better small forward option over Reddish and should receive more credit than he currently gets from fans of this team

If a high priced guard . . ( cough ) Bradley Beal ( cough ) . . is brought on board, I would have no issue with Reddish playing the 6th man role, so that he can develop even further as a top offensive threat on the floor with the 2nd unit.   Hunter would start, but maybe Hunter isn't on the floor at the end of games, depending on who is having the better game between Hunter and Reddish.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And keep Hunter out of the 4 spot until he bulks up to be Joe Johnson's size.  He's literally one of the smallest starters you can put on the court at the 4, both in height and in weight.

Most of his minutes should come at the 3.  But I'd rather see him play more at the 2, than at the 4.

[Buzzard]

15 hours ago, AHF said:

Like I said, I'm not too worried about the academic, white board comparisons here because I'm looking at Cam playing most of his minutes at the 2 and Hunter playing most of his minutes at the 3 this coming season.

Hunter had the better rookie season. There is no debate about that at all.

Hunter:

12.3 PTS, 4.5 TRB, 1.8 AST .410 FG%, .764 FT%, .355 3P%, .521 TS%

Reddish:

10.5 PTS, 3.7 TRB, 1.5 AST, .384 FG%, 80.2 FT%, .332 3P%, .500 TS%

Now lets go to best monthly splits and I will not use the small monthly splits of October with 5 games and March with 4 games.

Hunter:

February: 10 Games

13.8 PTS, 6.8 TRB, 1.5 AST, .439 FG%, .826 FT%, .463 3PT%, .589 TS%, 11 Steals and 3 blocks.

Reddish: February 9 Games

13.4 PTS, 3.0 TRB, 1.3 AST, .441 FG%, .828 FT%, .349 3PT%, .572 TS%, 10 Steals and 6 blocks.

Hunter also had another month ( December ) where he posted 13.8 PTS but his TS% was only .507, so naturally I used his best month. Both players showed they were trending in the right direction in January. Cam's TS% jumped to .543 and Hunters went up to .537. February was the best months for both players when it comes to efficiency. Putting this together I almost expected to see Hunters shooting stats to be better; but seeing Hunters assist numbers were even minutely better was a surprise.

My whole point to this exercise is if Reddish is seen as a potential All Star, there is nothing in these numbers to suggest Hunter does not have just as much potential. Hunter is not as twitchy but he clearly has the potential to be every bit as efficient if not more.

I think we have two good players. One is best suited to playing SG; one is best suited to playing SF. Now bring on the draft, free agency, Capela, and the start of next season!

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntede01/splits/2020

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01/splits/2020

[JayBirdHawk]

30 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

My whole point to this exercise is if Reddish is seen as a potential All Star, there is nothing in these numbers to suggest Hunter does not have just as much potential. Hunter is not as twitchy but he clearly has the potential to be every bit as efficient if not more.

Numbers don't always tell the entire story though. Sometimes you just gotta believe what your lying eyes tell you. .

I do hope at least one of them get to that 'Superstar' category.

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Numbers don't always tell the entire story though. Sometimes you just gotta believe what your lying eyes tell you. .

I do hope at least one of them get to that 'Superstar' category.

I get the flash and twitchiness with Reddish; its exciting as hell. But don't discount the steady eddies. I think Hunter is a lot like Horford when it comes to demeanor.

[Peoriabird]

42 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Hunter had the better rookie season. There is no debate about that at all.

Hunter:

12.3 PTS, 4.5 TRB, 1.8 AST .410 FG%, .764 FT%, .355 3P%, .521 TS%

Reddish:

10.5 PTS, 3.7 TRB, 1.5 AST, .384 FG%, 80.2 FT%, .332 3P%, .500 TS%

Now lets go to best monthly splits and I will not use the small monthly splits of October with 5 games and March with 4 games.

Hunter:

February: 10 Games

13.8 PTS, 6.8 TRB, 1.5 AST, .439 FG%, .826 FT%, .463 3PT%, .589 TS%, 11 Steals and 3 blocks.

Reddish: February 9 Games

13.4 PTS, 3.0 TRB, 1.3 AST, .441 FG%, .828 FT%, .349 3PT%, .572 TS%, 10 Steals and 6 blocks.

Hunter also had another month ( December ) where he posted 13.8 PTS but his TS% was only .507, so naturally I used his best month. Both players showed they were trending in the right direction in January. Cam's TS% jumped to .543 and Hunters went up to .537. February was the best months for both players when it comes to efficiency. Putting this together I almost expected to see Hunters shooting stats to be better; but seeing Hunters assist numbers were even minutely better was a surprise.

My whole point to this exercise is if Reddish is seen as a potential All Star, there is nothing in these numbers to suggest Hunter does not have just as much potential. Hunter is not as twitchy but he clearly has the potential to be every bit as efficient if not more.

I think we have two good players. One is best suited to playing SG; one is best suited to playing SF. Now bring on the draft, free agency, Capela, and the start of next season!

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntede01/splits/2020

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01/splits/2020

Excellent!

[JayBirdHawk]

33 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I get the flash and twitchiness with Reddish; its exciting as hell. But don't discount the steady eddies. I think Hunter is a lot like Horford when it comes to demeanor.

It's more than the flash and twitchiness with Reddish for me - it's about fluidity, hips, handles to get his shot or make a play, ease with which he can get to any spot and shoot (though not always successful), then add his defense. Just more in his tool box.

If Hunter is Horford that's cool too, teams need that.

And I'm not trying to downplay Hunter, it's about my projections based on their rookies seasons and their varying skillsets. I want them both to succed in their respective roles.

[Buzzard]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's more than the flash and twitchiness with Reddish for me - it's about fluidity, hips, handles to get his shot or make a play, ease with which he can get to any spot and shoot (though not always successful), then add his defense. Just more in his tool box.

If Hunter is Horford that's cool too, teams need that.

And I'm not trying to downplay Hunter, it's about my projections based on their rookies seasons and their varying skillsets. I want them both to succed in their respective roles.

Believe me, I am hyped about Reddish. I have these dreams of T-Mac V2 but a better defender and a lot healthier. But I also know not to make a bet on that dream

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

Hunter had the better rookie season. There is no debate about that at all.

Hunter:

12.3 PTS, 4.5 TRB, 1.8 AST .410 FG%, .764 FT%, .355 3P%, .521 TS%

Reddish:

10.5 PTS, 3.7 TRB, 1.5 AST, .384 FG%, 80.2 FT%, .332 3P%, .500 TS%

Now lets go to best monthly splits and I will not use the small monthly splits of October with 5 games and March with 4 games.

Hunter:

February: 10 Games

13.8 PTS, 6.8 TRB, 1.5 AST, .439 FG%, .826 FT%, .463 3PT%, .589 TS%, 11 Steals and 3 blocks.

Reddish: February 9 Games

13.4 PTS, 3.0 TRB, 1.3 AST, .441 FG%, .828 FT%, .349 3PT%, .572 TS%, 10 Steals and 6 blocks.

Hunter also had another month ( December ) where he posted 13.8 PTS but his TS% was only .507, so naturally I used his best month. Both players showed they were trending in the right direction in January. Cam's TS% jumped to .543 and Hunters went up to .537. February was the best months for both players when it comes to efficiency. Putting this together I almost expected to see Hunters shooting stats to be better; but seeing Hunters assist numbers were even minutely better was a surprise.

My whole point to this exercise is if Reddish is seen as a potential All Star, there is nothing in these numbers to suggest Hunter does not have just as much potential. Hunter is not as twitchy but he clearly has the potential to be every bit as efficient if not more.

I think we have two good players. One is best suited to playing SG; one is best suited to playing SF. Now bring on the draft, free agency, Capela, and the start of next season!

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntede01/splits/2020

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01/splits/2020

It is pretty simple.  Hunter was better in 2019 and Reddish was better in 2020.

Hunter was 2 years older and healthy and was definitely better in 2019.  He made some progress from 2019-20, mostly in the form of improved rebounding and slightly better 3pt shooting.

Reddish was younger and hurt for most of the prior season and summer and started the season like garbage, much worse than Hunter.  In 2020, he dramatically improved his scoring efficiency and continued to play standout defense as the team's best perimeter defender.

The right word for Hunter is steady but that is not a total compliment because it also means less dramatic development from 2019 to 2020:

So given the tools I see with my eyes and the performance I saw and the development I saw, it is an easy call for me to be excited about both but more bullish on Reddish.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Hunter had the better rookie season. There is no debate about that at all.

Hunter:

12.3 PTS, 4.5 TRB, 1.8 AST .410 FG%, .764 FT%, .355 3P%, .521 TS%

Reddish:

10.5 PTS, 3.7 TRB, 1.5 AST, .384 FG%, 80.2 FT%, .332 3P%, .500 TS%

Now lets go to best monthly splits and I will not use the small monthly splits of October with 5 games and March with 4 games.

Hunter:

February: 10 Games

13.8 PTS, 6.8 TRB, 1.5 AST, .439 FG%, .826 FT%, .463 3PT%, .589 TS%, 11 Steals and 3 blocks.

Reddish: February 9 Games

13.4 PTS, 3.0 TRB, 1.3 AST, .441 FG%, .828 FT%, .349 3PT%, .572 TS%, 10 Steals and 6 blocks.

Hunter also had another month ( December ) where he posted 13.8 PTS but his TS% was only .507, so naturally I used his best month. Both players showed they were trending in the right direction in January. Cam's TS% jumped to .543 and Hunters went up to .537. February was the best months for both players when it comes to efficiency. Putting this together I almost expected to see Hunters shooting stats to be better; but seeing Hunters assist numbers were even minutely better was a surprise.

My whole point to this exercise is if Reddish is seen as a potential All Star, there is nothing in these numbers to suggest Hunter does not have just as much potential. Hunter is not as twitchy but he clearly has the potential to be every bit as efficient if not more.

I think we have two good players. One is best suited to playing SG; one is best suited to playing SF. Now bring on the draft, free agency, Capela, and the start of next season!

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntede01/splits/2020

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01/splits/2020

Cam was much better after DEC

Look at per36

Points per touches

Defensive value

Etc.

Cam even has a higher WAR when he was the worst in the NBA by a mile at the end of November and Hunter was net neutral 

Looking at December which was rough for both, Cam gained value, Hunter lost some and it trended in that direction till March where both were gaining value.

Cam played like 6 less a minute per game than Hunter. You can't throw out raw numbers.

Edited May 7, 2020 by NBASupes

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

It is pretty simple.  Hunter was better in 2019 and Reddish was better in 2020.

Hunter was 2 years older and healthy and was definitely better in 2019.  He made some progress from 2019-20, mostly in the form of improved rebounding and slightly better 3pt shooting.

Reddish was younger and hurt for most of the prior season and summer and started the season like garbage, much worse than Hunter.  In 2020, he dramatically improved his scoring efficiency and continued to play standout defense as the team's best perimeter defender.

The right word for Hunter is steady but that is not a total compliment because it also means less dramatic development from 2019 to 2020:

So given the tools I see with my eyes and the performance I saw and the development I saw, it is an easy call for me to be excited about both but more bullish on Reddish.

We will see if LP plays a more steady starting five along with better rotations. I think that is a huge key to development. This is a bit of a shock but I just looked at play by play for Reddish; according to basketball reference, Reddish was played 40% of the time at SF and 59% of the time at PF.

Man I hope to see something that looks a lot more normal next year for two players who both check in at under 230 Pounds.

Neither of these players came close to having a month like Trae did his rookie season. Not even one month. So with that being said, I am bullish and reserved on both. I have been disappointed way to many times and the proof is in the pudding for me these days.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01.html

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

This is a bit of a shock but I just looked at play by play for Reddish; according to basketball reference, Reddish was played 40% of the time at SF and 59% of the time at PF.

Man I hope to see something that looks a lot more normal next year for two players who both check in at under 230 Pounds.

Neither of these players came close to having a month like Trae did his rookie season. Not even one month. So with that being said, I am bullish and reserved on both. I have been disappointed way to many times and the proof is in the pudding for me these days.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01.html

I think we all know that is wildly inaccurate.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

We will see if LP plays a more steady starting five along with better rotations. I think that is a huge key to development. This is a bit of a shock but I just looked at play by play for Reddish; according to basketball reference, Reddish was played 40% of the time at SF and 59% of the time at PF.

Man I hope to see something that looks a lot more normal next year for two players who both check in at under 230 Pounds.

Neither of these players came close to having a month like Trae did his rookie season. Not even one month. So with that being said, I am bullish and reserved on both. I have been disappointed way to many times and the proof is in the pudding for me these days.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01.html

You mean Hunter, right.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Right now, Hunter is trending to be Harrison Barnes.  He needs to finish better around the rim, but that will come with time and experience.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Right now, Hunter is trending to be Harrison Barnes.  He needs to finish better around the rim, but that will come with time and experience.

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You mean Hunter, right.

Nope Reddish. They list Hunter as playing 18% at SG, 62% at SF, and 20% at PF.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntede01.html

 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Nope Reddish. They list Hunter as playing 18% at SG, 62% at SF, and 20% at PF.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntede01.html

 

That's wrong then, that's all I got.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

Nope Reddish. They list Hunter as playing 18% at SG, 62% at SF, and 20% at PF.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntede01.html

 

BR has never been real good on % positions.  Look at the top lineups and you know where he is playing:

[Buzzard]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

That's wrong then.

Maybe they got Hunter and Reddish twisted around. I can tell you this, the lineup combinations that were used last season were over the top with the massive number of different things LP was trying. Stupid shit, like Bembry starting four games and also averaging just over 20 minutes a game.