Hunter vs Reddish

[Buzzard]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

BR has never been real good on % positions.  Look at the top lineups and you know where he is playing:

That is fine but where is the minutes? That is the weakness; there was no consistency in minutes with our lineups. I don't know why I have to keep repeating this. Our 2nd most used lineup at NBA.COM is ranked 94th among all teams in minutes played. That means there are 93 other lineups that were used more by other teams than our #2. Our 2nd most used lineup is irrelevant compared to where other teams 2nd most used lineups rank.

You are citing most used lineups when by comparison with other teams, we do not have most used lineups. Its a joke to call anything other than maybe our #1 a most used. It ranks 33rd out of 30. Frigging sad to be honest with you.

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/

 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

That is fine but where is the minutes? That is the weakness; there was no consistency in minutes with our lineups. I don't know why I have to keep repeating this. Our 2nd most used lineup at NBA.COM is ranked 94th among all teams in minutes played. That means there are 93 other lineups that were used more by other teams than our #2. Our 2nd most used lineup is irrelevant compared to where other teams 2nd most used lineups rank.

You are citing most used lineups when by comparison with other teams, we do not have most used lineups. Its a joke to call anything other than maybe our #1 a most used. It ranks 33rd out of 30. Frigging sad to be honest with you.

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/

 

Minutes are listed on the link below:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01/lineups/2020

But you know it is facially wrong.  The numbers you posted were 40% / 59% at SF and PF.  That means 1% at SG.  Just from the 10 lineups listed there, you are easily higher than 1% at SG.  Plus, we all watched last season.

BR is good at a lot of things but their position tracking is known to be pretty terrible.

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Minutes are listed on the link below:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01/lineups/2020

But you know it is facially wrong.  The numbers you posted were 40% / 59% at SF and PF.  That means 1% at SG.  Just from the 10 lineups listed there, you are easily higher than 1% at SG.  Plus, we all watched last season.

BR is good at a lot of things but their position tracking is known to be pretty terrible.

It was actually 1% at Center not SG. But who is reading the links I shared.

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Minutes are listed on the link below:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01/lineups/2020

But you know it is facially wrong.  The numbers you posted were 40% / 59% at SF and PF.  That means 1% at SG.  Just from the 10 lineups listed there, you are easily higher than 1% at SG.  Plus, we all watched last season.

BR is good at a lot of things but their position tracking is known to be pretty terrible.

This should really give us all a clue to how useless most used lineups are under LP this season. The 5th most used lineup by what you posted has Dedmon in it. At NBA.COM that lineup is our 3rd most used with 92 minutes. He has only been with us 15 games. Don't you think that is a little CRAZY that a player who has only played 15 games out of 67 is in the 3rd and 5th most used lineups?

I am not going to call most used lineups relevant for this team with data like that. So nothing about this stat is factually right; except our #1 most used lineup. The rest are garbage time like minutes that make no sense at all to rank where they do.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

45 minutes ago, AHF said:

LOL . . . Harrison is not a bad player ( even though I had to cut him from my fantasy team ).   He's just . . . Harrison.

He'll play in the league 15+ years as a guy who can defend halfway decent and knock down open 3s.  But he's also a guy that probably shouldn't be playing any time at PF, just for the sake of having another shooter out on the floor.

[JayBirdHawk]

24 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Maybe they got Hunter and Reddish twisted around. I can tell you this, the lineup combinations that were used last season were over the top with the massive number of different things LP was trying. Stupid shit, like Bembry starting four games and also averaging just over 20 minutes a game.

Yes, some of the lineups were questionable at times but context also matters in a lot of this. (and I don't want to go down the LP rabbit hole in this thread).

Yes, Bembry started 4 games. But Why? No Cam or Huerter available (I checked the 1st 2 games he started). Who should LP have started? Punch-face Turner, Always injured Crabbe or reprise VC's role as a SG, or Scrubalub Tyrone Wallace?

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

This should really give us all a clue to how useless most used lineups are under LP this season. The 5th most used lineup by what you posted has Dedmon in it. At NBA.COM that lineup is our 3rd most used with 92 minutes. He has only been with us 15 games. Don't you think that is a little CRAZY that a player who has only played 15 games out of 67 is in the 3rd and 5th most used lineups?

I am not going to call most used lineups relevant for this team with data like that. So nothing about this stat is factually right; except our #1 most used lineup. The rest are garbage time like minutes that make no sense at all to rank where they do.

 

That lineup specifically pertains to Reddish's top 10 lineups, and not the Hawks top 10 lineups. 

 

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

It was actually 1% at Center not SG. But who is reading the links I shared.

You should know on its face any source saying Reddish didn't play at all at SG is a bad source for that data.

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

LOL . . . Harrison is not a bad player ( even though I had to cut him from my fantasy team ).   He's just . . . Harrison.

He'll play in the league 15+ years as a guy who can defend halfway decent and knock down open 3s.  But he's also a guy that probably shouldn't be playing any time at PF, just for the sake of having another shooter out on the floor.

Harrison is an overpaid bum, IMO.  He costs teams way more than he is worth and is not a difference maker at all.  He would be fine if he was being paid $8M.  But being paid $22M pretty much means your team won't be competing because you've tied up a large part of your cap on a guy who shows up and scores with middling efficiency and subpar everything else.

****ING 13.3 career PER.  That is ***** for a guy in his pay bracket.  Absolute garbage.

[Buzzard]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

That lineup specifically pertains to Reddish's top 10 lineups, and not the Hawks top 10 lineups. 

 

Makes sense then but it still remains that a player who has only been with us 15 games is in the 3rd most used lineups. I am like @JayBirdHawk and see no reason to go down the LP Rabbit hole.

Our most used lineups need to be ignored. There were way to many of them getting sporadic minutes at best over the course of the season for our 2nd or 3rd ( The Dedmon lineup ) to be considered relevant.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Makes sense then but it still remains that a player who has only been with us 15 games is in the 3rd most used lineups. I am like @JayBirdHawk and see no reason to go down the LP Rabbit hole.

Our most used lineups need to be ignored. There were way to many of them getting sporadic minutes at best over the course of the season for our 2nd or 3rd ( The Dedmon lineup ) to be considered relevant.

We definitely had a highly unstable roster this season - especially in the frontcourt.  Forced all kinds of lineups no one wanted to see.  (Well, maybe Spud wanted to see Jones start prior to the season but most of us never wanted to see significant minutes for many guys who were forced into playing much bigger roles than they should have played).

It definitely played into our season record and ability to execute schemes.

[benhillboy]

I can get with any position shifting except SF to PF.  It was almost unheard of back in the day.  A bigger PG can go up to SG if he could shoot and play off his BU.  A longer SG should be able to find some quickness advantages at the 3.  A long, defensive minded PF can keep the ship afloat at the 5.  Shifting from the wing to around the paint just mucks up everyone’s role IMO. Seeing these skinny 6’7”, 6’8” dudes being tasked with boxing out and rebounding then switching sides parked at the arc and drawing no fouls will never become normal to me.  “Stretch 4” is just a crock of sh!t man.

Edited May 7, 2020 by benhillboy

[AHF]

Example:

We only had 23 games this season when our core 5 played 20 minutes each.  We lost those games by an average of -3.2 points.  We lost our other games by an average margin of -10.5 points.

 

This also extends out in similar fashion regardless of minutes played.  Our core 5 played together in 29 games.  We lost those by an average of 4.4 points (those include games like one where Trae played 10 minutes and went out injured, etc.) and the other games were lost by an average margin of -10.7 points.

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Example:

We only had 23 games this season when our core 5 played 20 minutes each.  We lost those games by an average of -3.2 points.  We lost our other games by an average margin of -10.5 points.

That's the thing.  It's all about those 5 and they performed well for young players surrounded by mediocrity. 

What was the record in those 23?

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That's the thing.  It's all about those 5 and they performed well for young players surrounded by mediocrity. 

What was the record in those 23?

In game were they played 20 minutes, we went 10-13 for a 43.5% winning %.  In all other games we went 10-34 for a 22.7% winning %.

In all games were all 5 played (regardless of how many minutes), we went 11-18 for a 37.9% winning %.  In all other games, we went 9-29 for a 23.7% winning %.

 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Harrison Barnes is useless. Hunter is worth a lot. Things aren't always stat based. Some people do winning shit, some don't. 

[AHF]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Harrison Barnes is useless. Hunter is worth a lot. Things aren't always stat based. Some people do winning shit, some don't. 

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

You should know on its face any source saying Reddish didn't play at all at SG is a bad source for that data.

Harrison is an overpaid bum, IMO.  He costs teams way more than he is worth and is not a difference maker at all.  He would be fine if he was being paid $8M.  But being paid $22M pretty much means your team won't be competing because you've tied up a large part of your cap on a guy who shows up and scores with middling efficiency and subpar everything else.

****ING 13.3 career PER.  That is ***** for a guy in his pay bracket.  Absolute garbage.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

You should know on its face any source saying Reddish didn't play at all at SG is a bad source for that data.

Harrison is an overpaid bum, IMO.  He costs teams way more than he is worth and is not a difference maker at all.  He would be fine if he was being paid $8M.  But being paid $22M pretty much means your team won't be competing because you've tied up a large part of your cap on a guy who shows up and scores with middling efficiency and subpar everything else.

****ING 13.3 career PER.  That is ***** for a guy in his pay bracket.  Absolute garbage.

It's not just the PER. When you watch his games, what is it that he does on a high level? If it's not much, what is his intangibles and values for a team? If that's not much, why is he always overpaid. Because he looks the part and is a great smart guy but that doesn't translate on the court

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

You should know on its face any source saying Reddish didn't play at all at SG is a bad source for that data.

Harrison is an overpaid bum, IMO.  He costs teams way more than he is worth and is not a difference maker at all.  He would be fine if he was being paid $8M.  But being paid $22M pretty much means your team won't be competing because you've tied up a large part of your cap on a guy who shows up and scores with middling efficiency and subpar everything else.

****ING 13.3 career PER.  That is ***** for a guy in his pay bracket.  Absolute garbage.

LOL . . I never said that he wasn't overpaid.  That is a FACT!

Blame Mark Cuban for tossing out the dollars like he's Pac-Man Jones at a strip club.

He's made almost 80 million in his career, with his middling efficiency, subpart stat stuffer play.   Incredible.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I can get with any position shifting except SF to PF.  It was almost unheard of back in the day.  A bigger PG can go up to SG if he could shoot and play off his BU.  A longer SG should be able to find some quickness advantages at the 3.  A long, defensive minded PF can keep the ship afloat at the 5.  Shifting from the wing to around the paint just mucks up everyone’s role IMO. Seeing these skinny 6’7”, 6’8” dudes being tasked with boxing out and rebounding then switching sides parked at the arc and drawing no fouls will never become normal to me.  “Stretch 4” is just a crock of sh!t man.

Imagine Dominique playing the 4.   Someone would try to do that in this era.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

(Well, maybe Spud wanted to see Jones start prior to the season but most of us never wanted to see significant minutes for many guys who were forced into playing much bigger roles than they should have played).

That’s just mean.  

 

Again, I WAS BETRAYED!!!!!!!! Hey at least we only sent Spell, but still I’m never going to vouch for anyone’s opinions on the players we get. Specially not a scrub fan. Fool me once, shame on you!!!

 

But next time AHF, I accept full responsibility.