Knee Jerk Reactions on the Squawk...

[Diesel]

Knee Jerk reactions really is a RealGM thing.   But we're seeing a lot of it on the Squawk lately. 

2 in particular:

 

1.  Get rid of Capela

a.  via Trade

b.  Give OO His minutes. 

 

2.  Replace Bogi with Cam

3.  Not resign Collins

 

These are knee Jerk reactions and they really disrespect the great season we have had under Nate.   The first thing I would say is about promotion of young players.... I don't have a problem if they earn it on the floor.   2nd.. responses about Capela (specifically) not being able to stand tall against Gainnis, Lopez, and Embiid...  I ask.. in our system, playing the defense that we played ... who would have done better?  OO didn't stop Lopez.   OO looked good against Giannis but that's a different story.  Too many squawkers are looking at size differences  and missing that this is basketball.  If your defense is a rotating defense and the offense completes a dribble drive that draws your big... whoever is playing on the wing has to rotate and stop the post player.  Milwaukee lived off of this.  They probably saw this from the NY series. In the NY series, when hunter left the floor, Rose was able to play this two man game and get good results.  Their problem was Randle.   He had to prove that he can hit a three. 

The Bottom line...  We should pretty much Stay Pat (unless a real upgrade that doesn't cost us much comes along) and run it back.  The great thing that we have working for us is that now that teams have seen us.... Trae will be more able to attract free agents.

 

[Gray Mule]

Never satisfied.  It's the nature of the beast.  As Pogo famously said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."  Our team was good enough to win two games in the eastern division finals.  We did this with a great wing player out - injured and with three of our starting five being walking wounded.

For many seasons, Atlanta needed a great center and a great PG.  We believe we now have both.  I know.  Hawks had the all star game on our court and had -0- players selected.  Oh, well.  Capela had the most rebounds in the east and Trae stole our heart if no one else noticed until the playoffs.

[NBASupes]

Man, if I didn't promise @AHF, ugh. It's not the message, it's the messenger. 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Man, if I didn't promise @AHF, ugh. It's not the message, it's the messenger. 

You should support the right message no matter the messenger.   Diesel is on point here.  

[Threezus]

I think you are a bit misunderstanding on this as i don't see it as a knee jerk reaction.  As for me im looking at it on the business side of things and looking to see how we can work the cap space and improve the team.  I love me some Capela and Collins.  But we got a ton of contracts coming up were gonna have to put out big money for.  So im looking to see if we can either 1. upgrade the team via trades while saving some money now to help on contracts.  or 2. move assets to upgrade to a better player and consolidate more avg players to 1 better at a weaker position from a position that we might have a backup at thats showing promise. 

Now with that said i don't want to move Capela nor Collins for table scraps it would need to be a overpay for me to even think about it so if were not coming out with a huge win on the trade i am not even thinking about it.

Im never ever against moving any player on any team if i feel it can help the team in the long run and upgrade the team as a whole.

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You should support the right message no matter the messenger.   Diesel is on point here.  

[Diesel isn't free from knee jerk reactions of his own.]  [This thread] was only created because he doesn't like any of these three ideas. Not because he's doesn't approve of knee jerk reactions which have been common on here and just about any message board since I've been posting in 2002. 

Tweaked the form of the message - AHF

[REHawksFan]

36 minutes ago, Threezus said:

I think you are a bit misunderstanding on this as i don't see it as a knee jerk reaction.  As for me im looking at it on the business side of things and looking to see how we can work the cap space and improve the team.  I love me some Capela and Collins.  But we got a ton of contracts coming up were gonna have to put out big money for.  So im looking to see if we can either 1. upgrade the team via trades while saving some money now to help on contracts.  or 2. move assets to upgrade to a better player and consolidate more avg players to 1 better at a weaker position from a position that we might have a backup at thats showing promise. 

Now with that said i don't want to move Capela nor Collins for table scraps it would need to be a overpay for me to even think about it so if were not coming out with a huge win on the trade i am not even thinking about it.

Im never ever against moving any player on any team if i feel it can help the team in the long run and upgrade the team as a whole.

Agree with this. Ironically, his post is just a knee jerk reaction to a few other discussions that aren't.  In regards to Clint for instance, he's severely overstating the actual sentiment in other threads by saying "get rid of Capela" as if any of us wants to just dump him for nothing. 

I have no idea if it was my comment in the playoff thread that started this whole thing, but I simply wondered out loud if Clint was no longer untouchable given his play and OO's play in the playoffs.  Now it's being morphed into wanting Clint gone like last nights stinky garbage.  That's just not the case.  

[gHost83]

I'm kinda on board moving on from Collins if he wants over 93 mill. Much rather have the capital available to sign our wings then to sink it into an undersized PF.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Threezus said:

I think you are a bit misunderstanding on this as i don't see it as a knee jerk reaction.  As for me im looking at it on the business side of things and looking to see how we can work the cap space and improve the team.  I love me some Capela and Collins.  But we got a ton of contracts coming up were gonna have to put out big money for.  So im looking to see if we can either 1. upgrade the team via trades while saving some money now to help on contracts.  or 2. move assets to upgrade to a better player and consolidate more avg players to 1 better at a weaker position from a position that we might have a backup at thats showing promise. 

Now with that said i don't want to move Capela nor Collins for table scraps it would need to be a overpay for me to even think about it so if were not coming out with a huge win on the trade i am not even thinking about it.

Im never ever against moving any player on any team if i feel it can help the team in the long run and upgrade the team as a whole.

I heard the owner say that he is willing to pay more for a championship.  The question is what does that translate to?  A contract for John?  John hasn't earned much more than we offered.  He had a down year but he's still a vital piece for us.   The idea of trading Capela right now is simply Knee Jerk.  From a value perspective, you are not going to find more value than what we get from Capela... unless we can get Embiid or somebody like that, I'm willing to let the sun go down on Capela's contract as he trades places with OO.   His contract is just too good to move for what we can get for him. 

Collins is a different story.  I love Collins and I think he definitely fits us... but he's never been a great defender.  It leaves the door open for us to go after a better player if one was available. I'm talking Siakim or something of that nature.   A guy who could give us better defense.   BUT in the absence of that type of player... I like our chemistry with John.  

Like I said in the other thread... this team deserves a chance to run it back and see what we can do while healthy with a few small changes.   I would evaluate Knight, Bruno  vs. can we get a skilled bigbig to be a BU C in here.  Whitesides would be my first choice.  I would love to come off the bench with a rim protector when we need one.   But that's not even neccessary... it comes down to how Nate coaches defense.   Maybe he needs a fast guy off the bench.. if that be the case, an improved Bruno could be our man.  

B.L. I trust Travis in this process and am willing to wait to see how he plays it. 

 

[Threezus]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Agree with this. Ironically, his post is just a knee jerk reaction to a few other discussions that aren't.  In regards to Clint for instance, he's severely overstating the actual sentiment in other threads by saying "get rid of Capela" as if any of us wants to just dump him for nothing. 

I have no idea if it was my comment in the playoff thread that started this whole thing, but I simply wondered out loud if Clint was no longer untouchable given his play and OO's play in the playoffs.  Now it's being morphed into wanting Clint gone like last nights stinky garbage.  That's just not the case.  

It all started for me when a guy on RealGM offered something like Wiseman Looney and 14 for Clint.   Look i love Clint but thats a hell of an offer that could turn out much better for us in the long run of things i find that hard to turn down. 

[Threezus]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I heard the owner say that he is willing to pay more for a championship.  The question is what does that translate to?  A contract for John?  John hasn't earned much more than we offered.  He had a down year but he's still a vital piece for us.   The idea of trading Capela right now is simply Knee Jerk.  From a value perspective, you are not going to find more value than what we get from Capela... unless we can get Embiid or somebody like that, I'm willing to let the sun go down on Capela's contract as he trades places with OO.   His contract is just too good to move for what we can get for him. 

Collins is a different story.  I love Collins and I think he definitely fits us... but he's never been a great defender.  It leaves the door open for us to go after a better player if one was available. I'm talking Siakim or something of that nature.   A guy who could give us better defense.   BUT in the absence of that type of player... I like our chemistry with John.  

Like I said in the other thread... this team deserves a chance to run it back and see what we can do while healthy with a few small changes.   I would evaluate Knight, Bruno  vs. can we get a skilled bigbig to be a BU C in here.  Whitesides would be my first choice.  I would love to come off the bench with a rim protector when we need one.   But that's not even neccessary... it comes down to how Nate coaches defense.   Maybe he needs a fast guy off the bench.. if that be the case, an improved Bruno could be our man.  

B.L. I trust Travis in this process and am willing to wait to see how he plays it. 

 

Im more so willing to move on from collins than i am Capela because i don't feel Collins is worth a max contract at this point.  If we can get him at a good deal like 15 to 20 a year by matching someone because no one is willing to max then im all for bringing collins back.  If we can't get him for anything less than 25 mil a year im more game to do a sign and trade. 

As for Capela as i said earlier im not just moving capela to move him im moving him if we get an overpay and someone really wants him.  To me a Wiseman, Looney, 14 type deal i just couldn't pass up on if something like that was ever offered.   It gives us way more upside with younger talent and cheaper contracts.  Plus you could take 14 and 20 move up a bit and get a backup PG as well if need be thats really talented with upside or using it in a trade for a star player in the next year or 2.   But it would legit have to be something i couldn't walk away from for me to even think about moving Capela.    That would be a top 3 pick in value + a 2nd lottery pick and an ok salary match in looney.   Caps good but he isn't worth all that if anyone would be willing to offer it lol.  I don't think any GM would do that realistically but my reply was more so other fans offering something like that to which i said i'll take it for sure.

[Diesel]

42 minutes ago, Threezus said:

Im more so willing to move on from collins than i am Capela because i don't feel Collins is worth a max contract at this point.  If we can get him at a good deal like 15 to 20 a year by matching someone because no one is willing to max then im all for bringing collins back.  If we can't get him for anything less than 25 mil a year im more game to do a sign and trade. 

As for Capela as i said earlier im not just moving capela to move him im moving him if we get an overpay and someone really wants him.  To me a Wiseman, Looney, 14 type deal i just couldn't pass up on if something like that was ever offered.   It gives us way more upside with younger talent and cheaper contracts.  Plus you could take 14 and 20 move up a bit and get a backup PG as well if need be thats really talented with upside or using it in a trade for a star player in the next year or 2.   But it would legit have to be something i couldn't walk away from for me to even think about moving Capela.    That would be a top 3 pick in value + a 2nd lottery pick and an ok salary match in looney.   Caps good but he isn't worth all that if anyone would be willing to offer it lol.  I don't think any GM would do that realistically but my reply was more so other fans offering something like that to which i said i'll take it for sure.

Agreed... Collins = No worthy of Max. 

I doubt that anybody would give Collins the max now.  Collins regular season had to turn a lot of people off from him.  He's not a defensive standout and offensively, his numbers dipped.   Right now, he looks more Trae made than anything else.... because he's not aggressive like you would expect a max player to be.   If somebody surpasses Travis' evaluation... I would study it very hard. 

I mean, teams would have to look at John and compare him to Portis and Markennen and make a decision based on how much they need to spend.   There's also Harrell, Green, and Griffin who may have played themselves into better deals. 

Collins is smart to test the waters this year... I think the waters will work in our favor though. 

If GS (Not just an unhappy fan) were to offer Wiseman and Looney for Cap.. I would have to waive goodbye.  Wiseman is going to be a future force.   But I just don't see that deal going down. 

 

 

[Threezus]

49 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Agreed... Collins = No worthy of Max. 

I doubt that anybody would give Collins the max now.  Collins regular season had to turn a lot of people off from him.  He's not a defensive standout and offensively, his numbers dipped.   Right now, he looks more Trae made than anything else.... because he's not aggressive like you would expect a max player to be.   If somebody surpasses Travis' evaluation... I would study it very hard. 

I mean, teams would have to look at John and compare him to Portis and Markennen and make a decision based on how much they need to spend.   There's also Harrell, Green, and Griffin who may have played themselves into better deals. 

Collins is smart to test the waters this year... I think the waters will work in our favor though. 

If GS (Not just an unhappy fan) were to offer Wiseman and Looney for Cap.. I would have to waive goodbye.  Wiseman is going to be a future force.   But I just don't see that deal going down. 

 

 

So all in all me and you actually see eye to eye on all of this and you yourself are not against moving players for the right situation.  Which is the way it should be and i honestly don't think Wiseman would be offered for Capela either but i was using that as a reason why i would be talking deals based on others outlooks from different teams.   So again i don't feel it's knee jerk but more so keeping an eye open to whats out there and available to upgrade the team.  For sure don't want to dump people just to dump them because i thought all of them Collins and Cap included performed well enough to want to have them on your team if nothing better comes along.

[bleachkit]

Let's run it back. Try to get JC locked up on a reasonable deal. Get another vet big, reliable back up point guard. BPA at # 20. Off we go. 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, Threezus said:

So all in all me and you actually see eye to eye on all of this and you yourself are not against moving players for the right situation.  Which is the way it should be and i honestly don't think Wiseman would be offered for Capela either but i was using that as a reason why i would be talking deals based on others outlooks from different teams.   So again i don't feel it's knee jerk but more so keeping an eye open to whats out there and available to upgrade the team.  For sure don't want to dump people just to dump them because i thought all of them Collins and Cap included performed well enough to want to have them on your team if nothing better comes along.

Yeah... we see eye to eye.. but I wouldn't go out of my way to move anyone based on these past playoffs.... That's knee jerk.  But if somebody brought a deal that we shouldn't turn down... I wont turn it down. 

[NBASupes]

Wiseman overrated af

[RandomFan]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Wiseman overrated af

Mainly he's just years away from helping a contender, which is why they are contemplating trading him for an established player because they are in win-now mode. Their window is closing fast due to age.