Where would it put us....

[Diesel]

if we were able to trade Bogi/Kev for Derozan (SNT)?

Can Trae, Derozan, Hunter, JC, and CC win the East?

 

[Diesel]

Originally, I thought Gallo instead of Bogi... but I like Gallo at BU PF. 

[gurpilo]

We would be basically a worst team. We are better with Bogi than with DeRozan so no need to additionally give Huerter

[capstone21]

That does not make us better at all ... probably worse.

Bogi is a better well rounded player in many facets then Demar who also can not shoot outside the midrange.  

[JayBirdHawk]

....behind the 8 ball.  so no trade.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, capstone21 said:

That does not make us better at all ... probably worse.

Bogi is a better well rounded player in many facets then Demar who also can not shoot outside the midrange.  

But DeMarr is the master of the midrange.  Not just some midrange guy.   It's just a thought.   I like our team as constructed.. but I also realize that during this year and next offseason, we will have to trade off some of our guys. 

 

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, Diesel said:

if we were able to trade Bogi/Kev for Derozan (SNT)?

Can Trae, Derozan, Hunter, JC, and CC win the East?

 

I wouldn't trade either of Bogi or Kev for non-floor-spreading, no-defense, 32 YO UFA DD let alone both of them.  Gives us less versatility and a downgrade in talent, imo.  Having another player inside the arc would not help our floor spacing at all.  Derozan's 3pt% the last 3 seasons is 15.6%, 25.7%, and 25.7%.  

Our defense would be horrendous with Trae and DD in the backcourt.  Do not like the fit at all.  Not even a little.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

But DeMarr is the master of the midrange.  Not just some midrange guy.   It's just a thought.   I like our team as constructed.. but I also realize that during this year and next offseason, we will have to trade off some of our guys. 

 

But he doesn't do anything else well enough to make a trade of Bogi AND Huerter make sense.

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

That does not make us better at all ... probably worse.

Bogi is a better well rounded player in many facets then Demar who also can not shoot outside the midrange.  

 

Not so fast.....

Per Game Table

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Bogdan Bogdanović	2020-21	28	44	27	29.7	6.1	12.8	.473	3.3	7.6	.438	2.8	5.3	.522	.602	0.9	1.0	.909	0.5	3.2	3.6	3.3	1.1	0.3	1.2	2.3	16.4
2	DeMar DeRozan	2020-21	31	61	61	33.7	7.5	15.1	.495	0.3	1.2	.257	7.1	13.9	.515	.505	6.3	7.2	.880	0.7	3.6	4.2	6.9	0.9	0.2	2.0	2.1	21.6

Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
Generated 8/3/2021.

[Diesel]

The stats show that the master of the midrange: Scores more points, gets more rebounds, gets far more assists... Goes to the FT more. Hits a better FG% than BB... the only thing that BB does do is shoot and hit more threes. Let's not act as though BB is better than DeRozan. There's a reason why DeRozan is a perennial all-star in this league.

[Atlantaholic]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

The stats show that the master of the midrange: Scores more points, gets more rebounds, gets far more assists... Goes to the FT more. Hits a better FG% than BB... the only thing that BB does do is shoot and hit more threes. Let's not act as though BB is better than DeRozan. There's a reason why DeRozan is a perennial all-star in this league.

He gets more assists because the offense is initiated by him in San Antonio. are we wanting to get the ball out of Trae's hands, force him to play off ball, where he has been thus far in his career ineffective, and run the offense through Dero? He kills spacing for our PnR which is what Trae does best, and on top of that he is a terrible defender, whereas Bogi has been solid the last several years. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

 

Not so fast.....

Per Game Table

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Bogdan Bogdanović	2020-21	28	44	27	29.7	6.1	12.8	.473	3.3	7.6	.438	2.8	5.3	.522	.602	0.9	1.0	.909	0.5	3.2	3.6	3.3	1.1	0.3	1.2	2.3	16.4
2	DeMar DeRozan	2020-21	31	61	61	33.7	7.5	15.1	.495	0.3	1.2	.257	7.1	13.9	.515	.505	6.3	7.2	.880	0.7	3.6	4.2	6.9	0.9	0.2	2.0	2.1	21.6

Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
Generated 8/3/2021.

DeRozan needs the ball in his hands a lot more than Bogi or Kev.  Not even Lou Will had the usage rate that DD does year after year.  It is because DD has to hold the ball to work for the midrange shots he takes.

The mid-range shot I want to see the most of for our team is Trae's floater and that does not work well with DD's game.  They need the same space on the floor.

I just don't see the fit on offense and on defense it would be a disaster.  The Spurs are letting him go because they have struggled with him on the floor. 

2020-21:  The Spur's defense was -9.2 points per 100 possessions worse when DD was on the floor for the Spurs.  That left him a net negative player for the season to the tune of -2.0 points per 100 possessions.  

The seasons before:

2019-20: -6.1 points (worse) on defense with DD for a net -4.6 points when he was on the floor

2018-19:  -2.2 points on defense and -3.5 points on offense for a net -5.7 points when he was on the floor

2017-18:  -5.5 points on defense which was more than offsetting the offensive gains for a net -0.1 points when he was on the floor

2016-17:   -5.9 points on defense for a net -4.9 points when he was on the floor

 

That is 5 straight years of teams being worse when he is on the floor than when he is sitting.  I'm not wasting time continuing to go back farther.  The defensive liability that he brings always outweighs his offensive contribution and usually by a very significant amount.

2020-21: Hawks are better on defense and offense with Bogi on the court.  +3.1 net impact per 100 possessions

 

I don't want to take on a guy who negatively impacts our offensive spacing and is a complete defensive liability.  The fact that SA is happy to let him go says it all to me.

 

[Diesel]

That's a false Narrative. i.e. Derozan is Ball Dominant or that he needs the Ball to be effective. He played better alongside Lowry than he did in San Antonio. He's just a guy who is effecient and effective at passing.

[nathan2331]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That's a false Narrative. i.e. Derozan is Ball Dominant or that he needs the Ball to be effective. He played better alongside Lowry than he did in San Antonio. He's just a guy who is effecient and effective at passing.

DeRozan has had a higher usage rate that Bogi for the majority of his career. That doesn't mean DD is a ball hog, we just have to put his game into context if we're projecting him in a different role. If you give him a lesser role (which he would have on the Hawks) the volume in his stats consequently goes down. He's not inefficient, but he also doesn't provide floor spacing, which is the major criticism everyone else is pointing out. Our offense is hardest to stop when we've got shooters surrounding Trae. That's what forces teams to be less aggressive trying to stop Trae. If DD is on the team instead of Bogi/Kev, whoever is guarding him is in a much better position to help disrupt a PnR because Derozan is not going to punish you for leaving him open. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

That's a false Narrative. i.e. Derozan is Ball Dominant or that he needs the Ball to be effective. He played better alongside Lowry than he did in San Antonio. He's just a guy who is effecient and effective at passing.

Really?

Bogi Career 21.4% usage rate; last 4 years low of 19.6% with a career high of 22.6%

Derozan Career 27.0% usage rate; last 4 years low of 26.1% with a career high of 34.3% 

 

But maybe his numbers were lower with Lowry, right?  Wrong.

Raptors

2015-16 29.8% 

2016-17 34.3%

2017-18 29.6%

 

He is absolutely much more ball dominant than Bogi.  Dramatically more ball dominant.  Bogi has a career 18.4% assist rate vs. Derozan's career 18.8% assist rate. 

 

Now I'm waiting to hear how he isn't an absolute garbage defender.  

[sillent]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

if we were able to trade Bogi/Kev for Derozan (SNT)?

Can Trae, Derozan, Hunter, JC, and CC win the East?

 

You just eliminated alot of 3pts and spacing from the team. Thankfully Travis is looking at talent and fit over names.

Also he's a  better fit with the Bulls and their non defensive squad. 

We don't need to reinvent the wheel we just invented. It's actually taking us places. Plus let's let Cam develop into that spot not a vet that may soon be declining.

Edited August 3, 2021 by sillent

[Marvin24Williams]

DeRozan is not the type of 2 guard this team needs. He slaughters your floor spacing offensively and is allergic to defense. Worst type of guard you can have next to Trae