OO ........

[Diesel]

I'm going to give it to you straight and I know most of yall won't like it.  But it must be said...

First.. My plan remains... OO takes over for Clint and Clint becomes BU...

Second... That can happen tomorrow... I'm not pressed.

But here's the bitter pill (also a good pill)  

 

OO is not skilled as a big. 

What we see in OO is a motor, athleticism, and reflex.  He also has really good lateral movement on defense.  Other than that.. OO has not developed true big man skills.  Save the comments about it's more than we get from Capela... this is not that conversation. I actually agree with it.   But we have to walk into this recognizing the truth..  OO is not skilled as a big.  What do you mean Diesel...

Does he have a drop step = No

Does he have an up and under = No

Does he have a turn and shoot = No

Does he have a shot from the elbow = No.

Does he know how to carve out space with a bump = Not cleanly..

Does he have a jump hook = No

Can he play the high post = No

Can he pass out of the double = Not Cleanly. 

 

I was watching some of my Al Horford footage earlier this morning.   Horford.. as much as I hated him.. he was very skilled.  This was the genesis of the thought. 

Back to OO.

The fact that OO has all the intangibles but none of the real skills... is good.   Now is the time to get OO to work out with a Big man's coach.  It used to be Hakeem and before that Moses Malone.   However, I would even say a week with Kevin McHale.  OO didn't spend enough time at University to pick up on Skills and while he was at Chino HS(?).. the focus was the Ball Boys.   If you could have OO learn just a forth of the things listed  above, he will be a true monster. 

If he don't learn any.. as his athleticism wanes, so will his value on the floor. 

 

[BangHolman]

He was an athletic, skilled defender with high offensive potential coming out of USC. He is still just that because in his young career he hasn't had an off-season to develop his offensive game due to injury. Give it time.

[JayBirdHawk]

He needs off season development - unfortunately he has not been able to do any of that since coming to the NBA - it's always has been rehabbing in the offseason, that stunts his development.  What he has is great instinct, anticipation and BBall IQ.

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

He was an athletic, skilled defender with high offensive potential coming out of USC. He is still just that because in his young career he hasn't had an off-season to develop his offensive game due to injury. Give it time.

I actually agree with this.  I noted that he had the torn labrum (I believe) and the bad knee for both of his offseasons.  Hopefully, this is his chance to learn how to be an effective big.   Ayton was close to donkey piss when he started.. but he worked with somebody.. Probably Chris Paul in Paul's backyard between commercial shoots... and now he has alot of the skills that I mentioned. 

I don't know if the turn around will be that fast for OO.. but in the process of this season,I can see where Trae is teaching him how to be the next PNR finisher.  Lou is also working with him on being a better big...

 

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He needs off season development - unfortunately he has not been able to do any of that since coming to the NBA - it's always has been rehabbing in the offseason, that stunts his development.  What he has is great instinct, anticipation and BBall IQ.

This look to find Lou, how many centers do this, THIS ATHLETICALLY!! 
 

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He needs off season development - unfortunately he has not been able to do any of that since coming to the NBA - it's always has been rehabbing in the offseason, that stunts his development.  What he has is great instinct, anticipation and BBall IQ.

I would say less BBIQ and more instincts.  You can tell that because of the type of fouls that he gets... But he learns.. when we started this season, he would bit on every fake and faint.  Now.. not so much. 

 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Diesel said:

But he learns.

Indeed he does, some don’t.

[Diesel]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

This look to find Lou, how many centers do this, THIS ATHLETICALLY!! 
 

To Supes enjoyment.  I posted a collage of Al Horford footage on the other thread.   Al Horford was great at finding open players. Also,  I believe that Lou is the player that I would guess works out with OO the most.   You actually see Lou coaching OO on the sidelines as they come off the floor.  In a game earlier this year, Trae made a great pass to OO that OO bungled a little and missed.  When he came off the court, Lou immediately met him and started talking to him (I guess about how to know what to expect and what to do).   When Lou retires, he may find himself in a coaching gig.  Somebody have to teach these guys how to move to the left and shoot as a right handed player. 

 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Diesel said:

To Supes enjoyment.  I posted a collage of Al Horford footage on the other thread.   Al Horford was great at finding open players. Also,  I believe that Lou is the player that I would guess works out with OO the most.   You actually see Lou coaching OO on the sidelines as they come off the floor.  In a game earlier this year, Trae made a great pass to OO that OO bungled a little and missed.  When he came off the court, Lou immediately met him and started talking to him (I guess about how to know what to expect and what to do).   When Lou retires, he may find himself in a coaching gig.  Somebody have to teach these guys how to move to the left and shoot as a right handed player. 

 

Indeed Lou and OO have great chemistry as do Bogi and OO in a 2 man game. Agreed on Lou, he’s a lifer.

[JayBirdHawk]

Add nimble feet and great body control.

[benhillboy]

(These are WS/48)

Disregard Frank Kaminsky (who I like) and the other 7 guys on here you’ve never heard of who work mop up duty Who’s the only dude on this list at 21 yo (and 2 years younger than the next youngest?). You damn right trick.

Edited April 3, 2022 by benhillboy

[Dynamo]

He has a great feel for the game. It would be a good idea to hire a big man coach during the offseason.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Dynamo said:

He has a great feel for the game. It would be a good idea to hire a big man coach during the offseason.

That only helps if he's not rehabbing again this offseason. Gotta be healthy.

[Spud2nique]

11 hours ago, benhillboy said:

(These are WS/48)

Disregard Frank Kaminsky (who I like) and the other 7 guys on here you’ve never heard of who work mop up duty Who’s the only dude on this list at 21 yo (and 2 years younger than the next youngest?). You damn right trick.

That’s why I wanted OO in 2019. Watching him at USC, I just saw a guy willing to do anything to win. So win shares doesn’t surprise me.

[benhillboy]

18 hours ago, Dynamo said:

He has a great feel for the game. It would be a good idea to hire a big man coach during the offseason.

Definitely.  This coaching staff doesn’t have the wherewithal to slot him at PF though (only 5% of his career minutes) so I’m skeptical of any decisions they make concerning his development.  They don’t understand that’s why he’s only drawn 5 offensive fouls to 26 committed, and drawn 83 shooting fouls to 145 committed smh.  Fortunately he has enough tools and great make up to combat their shortcomings.

His spike in FT shooting from last season (.633 to .722) and great efficiency on shots coming from  10 feet out to the arc (although on super low attempts) are quite enough to project he’ll develop some Bam, Siakam type face up skills.  He’s becoming more confident in his short hook each game with nice touch.

I have no illusions about him becoming a playmaker but his IQ is plenty high enough to make smart possession advancing passes.  His dribble hand off is already better than most sophomore Bigs.  I’m sure Sweet Lou worked with him a lot on that.

He can be as good as he wants to be, the Win Shares show he will regardless of outside factors.  A Hawk hasn’t been one of my favorite players in the league since Kyle Korver, OO has changed that no doubt.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by benhillboy

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Definitely.  This coaching staff doesn’t have the wherewithal to slot him at PF though (only 5% of his career minutes) so I’m skeptical of any decisions they make concerning his development.  They don’t understand that’s why he’s only drawn 5 offensive fouls to 26 committed, and drawn 83 shooting fouls to 145 committed smh.  Fortunately he has enough tools and great make up to combat their shortcomings.

His spike in FT shooting from last season (.633 to .722) and great efficiency on shots coming from  10 feet out to the arc (although on super low attempts) are quite enough to project he’ll develop some Bam, Siakam type face up skills.  He’s becoming more confident in his short hook each game with nice touch.

I have no illusions about him becoming a playmaker but his IQ is plenty high enough to make smart possession advancing passes.  His dribble hand off is already better than most sophomore Bigs.  I’m sure Sweet Lou worked with him a lot on that.

He can be as good as he wants to be, the Win Shares show he will regardless of outside factors.  A Hawk hasn’t been one of my favorite players in the league since Kyle Korver, OO has changed that no doubt.

 

You have to have a PFs game to play PF.  Sorry BHB but there's no part of his game that resembles a PF.   He has no High post game at all.  He can't shoot it from the elbow.   Hitting FTs when nobody is guarding you and hitting an elbow shot when hands are everywhere is a totally different thing.  You mention Bam and Siakim.   Siakim...  Do you watch dude on offense?  He is a stretch 4.   I want OO to learn some big man moves.  It something that has been proven that can be done.   What has not been proven is that you can convert somebody who only has size to an effective PF.   The experiment that you will try will end up with him being the next Randolph Morris. 

 

[benhillboy]

On 4/4/2022 at 9:03 AM, Diesel said:

You have to have a PFs game to play PF.  Sorry BHB but there's no part of his game that resembles a PF.   He has no High post game at all.  He can't shoot it from the elbow.   Hitting FTs when nobody is guarding you and hitting an elbow shot when hands are everywhere is a totally different thing.  You mention Bam and Siakim.   Siakim...  Do you watch dude on offense?  He is a stretch 4.   I want OO to learn some big man moves.  It something that has been proven that can be done.   What has not been proven is that you can convert somebody who only has size to an effective PF.   The experiment that you will try will end up with him being the next Randolph Morris. 

 

PF is as fluid as a “position” as there is in the league.  Duncan Robinson or DeMar Derozan resemble traditional PFs to you?

Did anyone project Kawhi Leonard scoring like Jordan in the playoffs or Jimmy Butler facilitating like a PG?  Where would Steph be if the Kevin Martin projections were his goal?  Julius randle can do all those things you mentioned how’s that working out for NY?   OO’s makeup and hunger to improve is what makes him, not a skill set.  
 

Bill Russell said rebounding wins championships.  I don’t go against The Godfather.  You can count on one hand the number of PFs that can keep OO off the glass, way more at C.  Miami fans been sitting at #1 all season, all they really do is bitch and moan about Bam playing at the 5 and eventually getting worn down/ injured, with good reason.  He’s an inch taller and 20 pounds heavier than OO.  That’s the main thing I don’t want for Young Yek as he’s already missed too many games early on.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by benhillboy

[benhillboy]

Of course I’m not saying he should never play C.  But only 5% of his career minutes have come at the 4.  That’s crazy if you want to take advantage of matchups. 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Of course I’m not saying he should never play C.  But only 5% of his career minutes have come at the 4.  That’s crazy if you want to take advantage of matchups. 

BHB..

He can't shoot from range.   He can't dribble from the top of the key.. you saw that tonight.   His training has been that of a C.  Sure, we can spend lots of effort to try to make him into a PF.  Just like we can spend lots of time training JC to be a SG.   It can happen, but why?  The smart thing to do is get a big man in here and train him in some big man moves.

Either that or package him and Capela for Ayton. 

 

[macdaddy]

OO showed a decent jumper in college.   I think he can develop that part of his game.