Which Hawk(s) have the most trade value

[Spud2nique]

If we package a deal, which one of our guys is most attractive to the rest of the NBA?

(Not including Trae for obvious reasons)

2 part question :

1.  Who has the highest value?

2. who has the 2nd highest value?

 

[BangHolman]

The 2 guys, other than Trae, that I don't want to trade, Okongwu and Hunter.

[Diesel]

Loaded question.

I think that some of us are really homerish towards our young guys but in trade, not everybody wants a project.   The loaded part is dealing with contracts.... some contracts are less favorable which affects trade value.   But you don't get to have your shot at a top 4 anything in this league so being top 4 really increases the value of a player. 

 

[Final_quest]

I think it’s Hunter, JC, and Okongwu.  

[AHF]

52 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

If we package a deal, which one of our guys is most attractive to the rest of the NBA?

(Not including Trae for obvious reasons)

2 part question :

1.  Who has the highest value?

2. who has the 2nd highest value?

 

Good poll, Spud!  I am scratching my head on this because of contract status, current impact, upside, age, health, etc.

I think you could make a case for any of them other than Gallo to be in the top 2 depending on what a given buyer wants.

CC - The most proven production and on a long-term deal.  Are the dollars too high to be attractive to other teams?

JC - High production.  Same age as Hunter.  High dollar, long-term deal.  Injuries this season.  Probably a top 10 PF in the league (speaking to JC's production and the lack of depth at the position) but has shown he really isn't a #2 option and that he can struggle in a lot of playoff matchups.

Hunter - Team controlled with $10M salary next season and RFA status.  But RFA status also means a big unknown.  Has shown a mix of promise and pedestrian production over his first three seasons with injuries playing a major role.

Bogi - Highest impact scorer of the group which is attractive to teams with a need.  Injury status is a big question mark.  Contract is reasonable but only for 2 years which could be a pro or a con for some buyers.

Gallo - Limited but positive impact and short-term contract make him almost a rental.  Doubtful he would get $21M for next year in FA which makes him the only negative value contract here even though he could help a lot of teams as an 8th man in their rotation.

Huerter - Young and clear value as a shooter with some ability to handle and pass.  But impact in every area is limited - not aggressive enough to be a killer except on occasion.  Easy to fit into lots of teams but probably coming off the bench for a good team and not a big value contract if he doesn't improve from here.

OO - By far the youngest and offers the most team control on the lowest salary.  Size and ceiling are open questions but he has shown enough to be the #1 guy on my list in a vacuum but teams don't trade in a vacuum.  He wouldn't fill a need on some rosters.

[Spud2nique]

36 minutes ago, AHF said:

OO - By far the youngest and offers the most team control on the lowest salary.  Size and ceiling are open questions but he has shown enough to be the #1 guy on my list in a vacuum but teams don't trade in a vacuum.  He wouldn't fill a need on some rosters.

Haven’t voted 🗳 yet but agree here. Not sure if Hunter or JC is 2nd around the league. From all articles I’ve read in the past 3 years, it’s almost a tie, a bit more untapped potential with Hunter for sure as he plays both ends, but a lot of rosters can certainly use an athletic shooting 4 on their rosters. 
 

All of a sudden we sound like used car salesmen trying to get a few off the lot today  #snapreactions 

[agentorange90]

I voted Okongwu and Collins but Hunter is obvious.  And I think we all agree we need to keep Hunter.  I think a change of scenery could be good for Collins and I think some teams could use him.  After some really good GM years, I think Schlenk did not have a great year.  I think this off-season is as big for him as the year that we had the #4 pick and picked up Trae.

[Watchman]

6 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

If we package a deal, which one of our guys is most attractive to the rest of the NBA?

(Not including Trae for obvious reasons)

2 part question :

1.  Who has the highest value?

2. who has the 2nd highest value?

 

JC definitely has the highest value, but if we accept a lesser talent just to make a move, what have we accomplished?

[Spud2nique]

32 minutes ago, Watchman said:

lesser talent j

Not necessarily lesser although perhaps but more aimed towards a better fit for our team. For example, say a few years ago if a team swung Carmelo for Roco. (I do wanna go on record as saying I’ve always thought Melo was way overrated).

 

I love JC but my man gets bodied and bounced up in that paint. I wanna remain versatile while adding girth, I wanted this a few years ago with Trez to protect Trae, now I want Nurkic or Valencuinis. A big body. Although I guess that’s in place of our center Capela. 

 

[Diesel]

Teams that hot for trades are usually teams that are a piece away.   If a team was drafting then Hunter and OO would be in high demand.. but not by trade because nobody has time to wait on them to develop.   And even though they have looked good in spurts, they are in need of Development.   For this reason, even Kev has a higher trade value than them.

However, the biggest flaw in the voting is that for you to establish trade value, there must first be personal value and I don't think a lot of Hawks fans value Clint.   He's a top 4 C.  Led the league in rebounding last year.  Rim Runner, good defender...and he's on a good value contract.   Clint has really good value for trade.   A team in the trade market will see Clint and want him as their finishing piece. 

[Diesel]

To prove my point about projects...

How many of you would trade for Obi Toppin?

How about Patrick Williams?

How about Killian Hayes?

How about Romeo Langford?

 

See.

[AHF]

12 hours ago, Diesel said:

To prove my point about projects...

How many of you would trade for Obi Toppin?

How about Patrick Williams?

How about Killian Hayes?

How about Romeo Langford?

 

See.

I do think your broader point about teams not paying a premium for unrealized potential is probably correct with DH.  However, I don't at all buy the comparison of these players with OO or DH. 

 

For OO, he is #1 in his class in WS/48 and even with the time he has missed he is still 8th in total win shares.

His WS/48 is literally more than 2-3 times these guys (.183 OO - .090 OT, .067 PW, -0.013 KH, .052 RL) so he is producing on the floor right now in meaningful ways that these guys are not.  Jaxson Hayes is probably the best comparison for OO.  (Drafted #6 and #8; OO better metrics but pretty close and similarly ranked within class.)

Hunter has 3 seasons under his belt with 12-15 ppg each season and has started most of his career.  That is VERY different from these guys.  By way of example:

Hunter Career to Date

DH 133 Total Starts vs OT 10 + PW 80 + KH 58 + RL 11 = 133 vs 159

DH 1831 Total Points  vs OT 901 + PW 808 + KH 629 + RL 353 = 1831 vs 2691

So I don't buy the parallel.  OO and DH can step right into starting or big roles in the rotation for teams and has development potential.  Those guys are all scrubs right now.

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Don't buy the comparison with OO or DH. 

 

For OO, he is #1 in his class in WS/48 and even with the time he has missed he is still 8th in total win shares.

His WS/48 is literally more than 2-3 times these guys (.183 OO - .090 OT, .067 PW, -0.013 KH, .052 RL) so he is producing on the floor right now in meaningful ways that these guys are not.  Jaxson Hayes is probably the best comparison for OO.  (Drafted #6 and #8; OO better metrics but pretty close and similarly ranked within class.)

Hunter has 3 seasons under his belt with 12-15 ppg each season and has started most of his career.  That is VERY different from these guys.  By way of example:

Hunter Career to Date

DH 133 Total Starts vs OT 10 + PW 80 + KH 58 + RL 11 = 133 vs 159

DH 1831 Total Points  vs OT 901 + PW 808 + KH 629 + RL 353 = 1831 vs 2691

So I don't buy the parallel.  OO and DH can step right into starting or big roles in the rotation for teams and has development potential.  Those guys are all scrubs right now.

DH has been in the league for a whole year more than OT...  Played more games.   Had more starts.. Why is OT's WS/48 5 times higher than DHs.. and they are both ~6'9" 220. 

[Spud2nique]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

For OO, he is #1 in his class in WS/48 and even with the time he has missed he is still 8th in total win shares.

Yes sir! Just win for him.

[Gray Mule]

Our two draft picks from last summer.  Why?  Other teams know that they did not play any of the meaningful minutes all season, therefore they believe that they can swoop in and take them for next to nothing.

Our opponents might say, "I'll do your trade.  Just throw in last summer's draft picks to make it work."  This is why I value them so highly.  Our opponents saw what they did in G League.

 

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

DH has been in the league for a whole year more than OT...  Played more games.   Had more starts.. Why is OT's WS/48 5 times higher than DHs.. and they are both ~6'9" 220. 

I see you have nothing on OO who owns OT by every measure.  

But I'll concede that is a basis for valuing the potential for OT.  But your post was saying teams won't value prospect status.  The thing is, that both OO and DH have played meaningful minutes as key members of the rotation on playoff teams.  To the extent you are arguing that teams won't pay for future potential, that puts DH in a much better "plug and play" position than OT.

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Yes sir! Just win for him.

Very excited if he follows through and comes back with a jumper next season.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I see you have nothing on OO who owns OT by every measure.  

But I'll concede that is a basis for valuing the potential for OT.  But your post was saying teams won't value prospect status.  The thing is, that both OO and DH have played meaningful minutes as key members of the rotation on playoff teams.  To the extent you are arguing that teams won't pay for future potential, that puts DH in a much better "plug and play" position than OT.

Very excited if he follows through and comes back with a jumper next season.

Ok.. Since we have diverted the conversation here....  

I still don't think that when you talk about the most "Trade Value" that a team is going to value a player that they have to wait develop over a player that is already developed.   That was the point entirely...   OO and DH may have great WS/48 (well OO maybe) but if a playoff team trying to get to the next level is looking at Hawks big men, who has more value for them.. CC or OO??  If teams knew we were having a firesale and they could get one of our Cs for Cheap... which C will a trading team (usually those trying to get good enough to go to the next level) is going to want?  CC or OO.

OO would be a good "Prospect" but nobody looks at a prospect better than a finished product (all things being equal). 

For instance... if the Pelicans wanted to get better.  They had a trade partner with the Knicks.  Do you think they would pick Topin over Randle if all things were equal?  Topin might be a great player one day... but Randle can get it done today.

 

 

[Sothron]

Not counting Trae the answers are very easy. Capela and JC in that order.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Ok.. Since we have diverted the conversation here....  

I still don't think that when you talk about the most "Trade Value" that a team is going to value a player that they have to wait develop over a player that is already developed.   That was the point entirely...   OO and DH may have great WS/48 (well OO maybe) but if a playoff team trying to get to the next level is looking at Hawks big men, who has more value for them.. CC or OO??  If teams knew we were having a firesale and they could get one of our Cs for Cheap... which C will a trading team (usually those trying to get good enough to go to the next level) is going to want?  CC or OO.

OO would be a good "Prospect" but nobody looks at a prospect better than a finished product (all things being equal). 

For instance... if the Pelicans wanted to get better.  They had a trade partner with the Knicks.  Do you think they would pick Topin over Randle if all things were equal?  Topin might be a great player one day... but Randle can get it done today.

 

 

First, the bold was my point.  By your logic, DH and OO are more developed, experienced and proven than all the comparables you listed.  That is accepting your premise.

Second, I'm not sure your premise is sound.  Young guys can draw big trade packages.  That is why lottery picks are the core of many packages for stars.  

[Diesel]

Just now, AHF said:

First, the bold was my point.  By your logic, DH and OO are more developed, experienced and proven than all the comparables you listed.  That is accepting your premise.

Second, I'm not sure your premise is sound.  Young guys can draw big trade packages.  That is why lottery picks are the core of many packages for stars.  

The premise is that the teams hottest to trade are teams trying to get to the next level.

Rebuilding teams love a draft pick.. so yeah.. draft picks and young players have some value to them.   But I would suggest that it depends..

You say that lottery picks are the core of many packages for stars. 

Most of the time, those picks are lottery protected.  There are few occasions when an unprotected pick is sent for a player.  If there's an unprotected pick going for a player then they must be a superstar.  By that same token, most teams would rather take a lottery pick than a young player. 

But who trades for stars more?

Rebuilding teams or teams trying to get to that next level?