I have to agree with this Kings fan. We look like the Harden-Westbrook Rockets

[terrell]

On 11/27/2022 at 7:40 PM, JeffS17 said:

Give them more than 5-7 FGA?  You guys act like if JC/Dre/others dont make 50% of their first 6 shots they dont deserve more attempts.  Zero chance we do anything with trae taking 30 shots a game

Thank you....

[macdaddy]

Hawks needed to do two things this summer imo.   Get a better starting wing and bolster the bench with good vets.     They did the first one but not the second.

Can this starting lineup contend?  Probably.   Can we contend with this bench.  No.  Not unless OO, AJ, JJ make huge improvements. 

[Expedite]

On 11/24/2022 at 3:38 PM, theheroatl said:

Before anybody even thinks about blaming Trae and DJM let’s consider the albatrosses we throw out there at the 3 and 4 every night.

inconsistency  times 1000

What do the 3 and 4 mean in this context?

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Hawks needed to do two things this summer imo.   Get a better starting wing and bolster the bench with good vets.     They did the first one but not the second.

Can this starting lineup contend?  Probably.   Can we contend with this bench.  No.  Not unless OO, AJ, JJ make huge improvements. 

Ugh. It’s always add this and add that. I just don’t get why our players can’t step the f up and make some strides here. 
 

Coach these players up! Somebody! If not Nate, then Nick Van or Kyle. 
 

Every year it’s … “this summer we need to..”

 

I don’t even care if Forrest Gump is our small forward. Teach Gump how to play basketball. Coach him up and let’s play.

 

Funneling players every year is just annoying.

We have our core. Now win damnit WIN!

[AHF]

11 hours ago, Expedite said:

I attended the Celtics vs. Hawks game live on November 16, 2022, and it was the first complete basketball game I ever watched in my life. I was very impressed with how entertaining it was, but I don't understand a lot of the strategy involved in basketball.  So please be understanding of my ignorance.  

Clint Capela started at Center at the Hawks game I attended 13 days ago.  When you say that Clint Capela's lack of gravity is elite, I am assuming you just mean that Capela can jump extraordinarily high.  You say that Capela's lack of gravity creates zero spacing for Murray.  My interpretation of what you are saying is the following:  Capela's ability to jump extraordinarily high creates zero spacing for Murray.  I am totally baffled.  Why would anyone's ability/lack of ability to jump high create spacing for anyone else?  

 

P.S. remember I am brand new to basketball.  Please be gentle.

 

 

 

Just to expand on this, a player's gravity on offense generally means the threat the other team perceives in them shooting from a given area of the floor.  So the threatening offensive player draws defenders to them because they perceive him as a threat.  If the player doesn't represent a threat, they don't draw defenders and don't have gravity in that area of the floor.  For example, Steph Curry has truly elite gravity because teams need to mark him everywhere on the floor. 

A player like Capela rarely scores from anywhere other than directly under the basket.  So if he is around the rim, teams feel the need to mark him.  But if he ventures anywhere away from the basket then the defense feels like they can completely ignore him (other than making sure he doesn't move back to the basket unmarked).  Since he doesn't attract defenders to him when he isn't under the basket, that is a lack of gravity. 

Capela is unusually limited in his ability to score so NBASupes described it as an "elite" lack of gravity.  A more versatile scorer will attract defenders to them in multiple areas.  On our team, Trae Young has been one of the league leaders in gravity because there is no area of the floor where defenders feel safe to let him go unmarked.

A player's gravity directly affects the ability of others to score.  Players with high gravity draw defenders to them and create more space for others to score.  Players with low gravity make it easy for the defense to give extra attention to other scorers and make it more difficult for them to score.  One challenge for our team this season has been a lack of quality 3pt shooters (we lost two good ones in the offseason and several of our players have started off cold from deep this year) and that ability to leave our shooters more open means the defense can make life more difficult for the team to score inside the 3pt arc.  This has been seen in the success teams have had running zone defenses against us and our struggle to take advantage of the openings in the zone (generally the single easiest way to beat a zone defense is to shoot over it since it tends to give up open looks from 3pt range).

[Expedite]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

Just to expand on this, a player's gravity on offense generally means the threat the other team perceives in them shooting from a given area of the floor.  So the threatening offensive player draws defenders to them because they perceive him as a threat.  If the player doesn't represent a threat, they don't draw defenders and don't have gravity in that area of the floor.  For example, Steph Curry has truly elite gravity because teams need to mark him everywhere on the floor. 

A player like Capela rarely scores from anywhere other than directly under the basket.  So if he is around the rim, teams feel the need to mark him.  But if he ventures anywhere away from the basket then the defense feels like they can completely ignore him (other than making sure he doesn't move back to the basket unmarked).  Since he doesn't attract defenders to him when he isn't under the basket, that is a lack of gravity. 

Capela is unusually limited in his ability to score so NBASupes described it as an "elite" lack of gravity.  A more versatile scorer will attract defenders to them in multiple areas.  On our team, Trae Young has been one of the league leaders in gravity because there is no area of the floor where defenders feel safe to let him go unmarked.

A player's gravity directly affects the ability of others to score.  Players with high gravity draw defenders to them and create more space for others to score.  Players with low gravity make it easy for the defense to give extra attention to other scorers and make it more difficult for them to score.  One challenge for our team this season has been a lack of quality 3pt shooters (we lost two good ones in the offseason and several of our players have started off cold from deep this year) and that ability to leave our shooters more open means the defense can make life more difficult for the team to score inside the 3pt arc.  This has been seen in the success teams have had running zone defenses against us and our struggle to take advantage of the openings in the zone (generally the single easiest way to beat a zone defense is to shoot over it since it tends to give up open looks from 3pt range).

I understand the concept of gravity now and how a player with a lot of gravity will create spacing for other players on his team.

Isn't Trae Young a quality 3 point shooter?

If you've got a team with a lot of guys who can slam dunk well, how does an offense relying heavily on slam dunks usually do against a zone defense?

[NBASupes]

15 hours ago, Expedite said:

I attended the Celtics vs. Hawks game live on November 16, 2022, and it was the first complete basketball game I ever watched in my life. I was very impressed with how entertaining it was, but I don't understand a lot of the strategy involved in basketball.  So please be understanding of my ignorance.  

Clint Capela started at Center at the Hawks game I attended 13 days ago.  When you say that Clint Capela's lack of gravity is elite, I am assuming you just mean that Capela can jump extraordinarily high.  You say that Capela's lack of gravity creates zero spacing for Murray.  My interpretation of what you are saying is the following:  Capela's ability to jump extraordinarily high creates zero spacing for Murray.  I am totally baffled.  Why would anyone's ability/lack of ability to jump high create spacing for anyone else?  

 

P.S. remember I am brand new to basketball.  Please be gentle.

 

 

 

In Basketball, the player known to have the most gravity is Steph Curry. Because of his movement, range, ability to get his shot off, his ability to finish and shoot mid range. This means defenses are extended because of his strengths 

Having anti gravity like Capela means you teams drop when he sets a screen. Spacing is compromised. Now this can be avoided if we put shooters around him and Trae but the other end then becomes the problem. 

I had this post created in the morning but @AHF did a hell of a job covering it. Thank you 

Edited November 30, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Expedite said:

I understand the concept of gravity now and how a player with a lot of gravity will create spacing for other players on his team.

Isn't Trae Young a quality 3 point shooter?

If you've got a team with a lot of guys who can slam dunk well, how does an offense relying heavily on slam dunks usually do against a zone defense?

Trae is more than just a quality 3pt shooter. His range spaces the floor and gives him more gravity but Trae alone can't be all you got and he's streaky.

Honestly, poor. That's why you run the zone. Because teams with a lot of finishers are hard to guard, so you want to cut off driving lanes and turn them into shooters. See Miami Heat v. Dallas Mavericks NBA finals series with the Big 3 featuring LeBron James 

Edited November 30, 2022 by NBASupes

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is more than just a quality 3pt shooter. His range spaces the floor and gives him more gravity but Trae alone can't be all you got and he's streaky.

Honestly, poor. That's why you run the zone. Because teams with a lot of finishers are hard to guard, so you want to cut off driving lanes and turn them into shooters. See Miami Heat v. Dallas Mavericks NBA finals series with the Big 3 featuring LeBron James 

Agree with Supes here.  Zones are designed to stop teams from scoring inside.  You have multiple people in and around the lane so people get swarmed if they try to get inside to dunk.  This creates more space for attacking teams on the perimeter which allows attacking offenses to shoot over the zone or to pass the ball in a way that causes the zone to lose its shape.  Often times a good passing forward can flash to around the free throw line and create absolute chaos for a zone defense by making good passes while players are moving and screening off the ball to get people open.  

This is why you did not see a lot of zone defense after the NBA legalized it years ago -- because zones create very predictable opportunities to attack it and are difficult to be successful using them when you are dealing with pro players (the lower skill level of high school and college players can make heavy utilization of zone defenses more successful).  

But we don't do much in the way of plays that require passing and off-ball movement and our shooters have been cold to start the season from long distance.  That encourages teams to play zone and to pack the space inside the 3pt arc to make it harder to score in that area.  Our coaching staff has not done much so far to counteract that strategy.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, Expedite said:

What do the 3 and 4 mean in this context?

The 3 is the Small Forward (DeAndre Hunter), the 4 is the Power Forward (John Collins).