I have to agree with this Kings fan. We look like the Harden-Westbrook Rockets

[RedDawg#8]

10 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Before anybody even thinks about blaming Trae and DJM let’s consider the albatrosses we throw out there at the 3 and 4 every night.

inconsistency  times 1000

Nah, I’d rather blame Batman and Robin, the 2 natural point guards, rather than the 2 forwards who rely on someone else to get them the ball.

JC’s shooting is documented. We get it. But we have 2 PGs that are score first instead floor generals getting their lesser teammates going so that their life is easier.

Getting Dre and JC in a rhythm should be their number 1 priority at the start of each game. Nate should be finding ways to get them clean looks at the basket. 

Trae and DJM are the head of the snake. The onus should always be on them.

[Final_quest]

10 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Getting Dre and JC in a rhythm should be their number 1 priority at the start of each game. Nate should be finding ways to get them clean looks at the basket. 

That sounds nice but I don’t think that approach has worked.  It’s typically better for us when Trae gets going early.  Our best scorers are not JC and Hunter.  Trying to make them a primary offensive focus has never worked.  

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, DS5 said:

WB and Harden are both horrible defenders and they never complimented each other. I think it’s too early to say the same is true for Trae and DJM, just gotta give them some time to figure it out. 

And for as much as I wanted Ayton in the off-season, I don’t think he’s a good fit now. He definitely won’t be featured in offense and he won’t give half of Clint’s effort on d. I think we need to ride it out with the starters and shore up the bench. 

Westbrook ain't even a horrible defender right now and don't forget, we got the WOAT with Trae. To say they never complimented each other when one got they won a lot of games together and went to the NBA Finals together is kinda an odd statement. 

I can see that a legit take for Ayton to Atlanta. 

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

That sounds nice but I don’t think that approach has worked.  It’s typically better for us when Trae gets going early.  Our best scorers are not JC and Hunter.  Trying to make them a primary offensive focus has never worked.  

Superstars getting their teammates involved early is a universal concept that is bigger than Trae, JC, or the Hawks.

We are a playoff team with Trae getting his and going off. He csn only carry us so far. Ask MJ, Kobe, Magic, Isiah, you name it.

We want to be a championship team, meaning the “others “will have to be just as important to our success.

Notice the word “focus” was not used. Rhythm begets confidence. When the role players are confident and in rhythm, the defense can’t keep up. It makes Trae more effective when 5 defenders are no longer selling out to stop him. 

I didn’t make this concept up, just watch any championship team from the modern era. It’s the 3rd-5th options that break the opponents backs when they are too worried about options A and B. 

[marco102]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Westbrook ain't even a horrible defender right now and don't forget, we got the WOAT with Trae. To say they never complimented each other when one got they won a lot of games together and went to the NBA Finals together is kinda an odd statement. 

I can see that a legit take for Ayton to Atlanta. 

Pretty sure he isn't WOAT this year so you need to stop saying that if you want to be taken seriously and not just trolling and I don't even believe he's been the worst the past couple of seasons.

See evidence below.  Ayton, RJ, Bojan Bogdonavic, Saddiq Bey, Reggie Bullock and Julius Randle must be worst WOAT since they are worst defenders than Trae? 

Edited November 24, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Pretty sure he isn't WOAT this year so you need to stop saying that if you want to be taken seriously and not just trolling.

See evidence below.  Ayton, RJ, Bojan Bogdonavic, Saddiq Bey, Reggie Bullock and Julius Randle must be worst WOAT since they are worst defenders than Trae? 

You really think Trae is better on D than Westbrook right now  

4 hours ago, AtLaS said:

Bigs have figured out that Murray won't throw the lob on the PNR so they are just stepping up when he comes off the screen which takes away his midrange J.  Then he basically gets trapped or has to force up a really tough shot.

Yep. Facts!

[marco102]

Just now, NBASupes said:

You really think Trae is better on D than Westbrook right now  

No, I'm just saying you calling him worst all time is not factually correct so you need to stop saying it.  Is he one of the worst defenders in the NBA yes. 

Stop being hyperbolic if you are making a serious point. You don't have to exaggerate your point to make it. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

No, I'm just saying you calling him worst all time is not factually correct so you need to stop saying it.  Is he one of the worst defenders in the NBA yes. 

Stop being hyperbolic if you are making a serious point. You don't have to exaggerate your point to make it. 

I've been calling Trae the worst defender in NBA history for years. That's not new. 

I think it's a fact. If you don't think it's a fact, you are entitled to your opinion. 

I am not going to stop. That's like asking Trae to stop shooting 30ft jumpers, he's not going to stop

[marco102]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I've been calling Trae the worst defender in NBA history for years. That's not new. 

I think it's a fact. If you don't think it's a fact, you are entitled to your opinion. 

I am not going to stop. That's like asking Trae to stop shooting 30ft jumpers, he's not going to stop

Cool so don't turn to analytics when you are trying to make your ither points because analytically he hasn't been worst all time in any stat. 

But go off chief. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Cool so don't turn to analytics when you are trying to make your points because analytically he hasn't been worst all time in any stat. 

But go off chief. 

Bro, I'ma do what I do and always do it and always expect Marco to be Marco, DIESEL to be Diesel and AHF to be AHF

Edited November 24, 2022 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

53 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Superstars getting their teammates involved early is a universal concept that is bigger than Trae, JC, or the Hawks.

We are a playoff team with Trae getting his and going off. He csn only carry us so far. Ask MJ, Kobe, Magic, Isiah, you name it.

We want to be a championship team, meaning the “others “will have to be just as important to our success.

Notice the word “focus” was not used. Rhythm begets confidence. When the role players are confident and in rhythm, the defense can’t keep up. It makes Trae more effective when 5 defenders are no longer selling out to stop him. 

I didn’t make this concept up, just watch any championship team from the modern era. It’s the 3rd-5th options that break the opponents backs when they are too worried about options A and B. 

He's right though.

Trying to get everybody else going, and not Trae, has led us to be a below .500 team even in the past 3 years.  

But if Trae gets going, and he's able to get to that 30 point mark, the Hawks are well over .500.  And moreso this season, seeing that we're 5 - 1 when Trae scores 30 or more.

 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You really think Trae is better on D than Westbrook right now  

 

Definitely not. 

But this is the reason why Defensive analytics is so tricky.  A lot of times, Offensive and Defensive ratings while a player is on the floor, is dependent on how well his TEAM is defending while he's on the floor.  Not necessarily that HE is the reason why the team is defending or not defending.

When you look at Westbrook's defensive dashboard according to when he's defending a player, his defensive numbers are fantastic.

 

They're much better than the "so-called" defender that Pat Beverly hypes himself up to be.  He gets absolutely lit up on defense.  Then again, this may be a product of him "trying" to defend the top offensive player, while Westbrook is coming off the bench and possibly guarding a weaker defender.

 

 

And for the record, this is Trae's defensive dashboard.  This does not indicate WOAT status.

 

 

 

 

[RedDawg#8]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

He's right though.

Trying to get everybody else going, and not Trae, has led us to be a below .500 team even in the past 3 years.  

But if Trae gets going, and he's able to get to that 30 point mark, the Hawks are well over .500.  And moreso this season, seeing that we're 5 - 1 when Trae scores 30 or more.

 

 

 

I recognize this. I get it. We needed this for us to be successful in the past. I’m not ignoring stats unlike my buddy Supes. 

How many rings has that won us though? Remember, it was Kev that won us game 7 to reach the ECF. It was Lou that sparked the game 5 comeback.

It was Dre that singlehandedly almost won us game 5 against Miami.

If you want different you have to do different. To get more you have to do more. Otherwise Trae can follow in Harden, Iverson, and Nash’s footsteps and retire without a ring.

When I say get others involved, yall think that means we have to get Trae off the ball. THAT is not what Im saying and we all know that doesn’t work.

Trae needs to be just as aggressive as he is when he is looking to score. He needs to attack the paint at will and get the defense moving. 

Im suggesting that he moves the ball once the defense has reacted to his initial drive. Im hoping that he forgoes scanning for the shot or the direct assist and starts hunting for the hockey assist. Seeing the play develop faster and being ahead of the defense.

I have no desire to see Trae pass the ball and stand around while Dre, JC, and DJ go iso and try to figure it out. That is not good basketball either. We don’t ever need to see that again.

Trae is option 1, the ball should be in his hands and we should work all the other options off of that. He should always play with a scoring posture because that will keep the defense honest. I don’t want him searching and scanning and dribbling the clock down, I want him hunting.

I want him attacking his defender, then the help defender, and then moving the ball as soon as he has two committed to him. That leaves more open lanes for JC and Dre to cut and get shots at the rim. Now they are confident. Now they are involved.

Can we all agree on that?

[NBASupes]

I saw this on Reddit. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/z3mav1/looks_like_the_pacers_dodged_a_bullet_with_ayton/

Interesting thread. I will say, JC defense is massively underrated these days. 

[marco102]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I saw this on Reddit. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/z3mav1/looks_like_the_pacers_dodged_a_bullet_with_ayton/

Interesting thread. I will say, JC defense is massively underrated these days. 

It is why I'm staying calm about his shooting slump. He has legit been good on defense all season.

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

It is why I'm staying calm about his shooting slump. He has legit been good on defense all season.

I do think his issue is involvement. Even when he's involved, it's like playing through his weaknesses. He should just be used with his strengths but easier said than done 

[bleachkit]

JC's finger might be an issue. A really mangled finger never quite heals back to the way it was. 

[terrell]

11 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I had season tickets that year to the Rockets and must say I agree with this. 

I see a lot of similarities 

The poor half court offenses

Players not comfortable in their roles

Poor shooting

 

The biggest issue is obviously JC but it'd hard to actually do anything about that because Murray and Capela eat from his spots and he's just not getting as many touches. 

So that goes to the root issue. 

The best performing Hawk, Clint Capela. As good as Clint has been this year. His lack of gravity is elite. It creates zero spacing for Murray. Where Trae uses Capela as an extention of his body. Murray has shown no ability to do that and it's really limited him offensively. Teams made some adjustments from early in the year on Murray and it seems like he's hit his offensive peak for our personnel grouping. This happened to a degree with Houston, Westbrook just couldn't flow with Capela and they ended up moving Clint to Atlanta for that very reason. 

What's the solution. I don't have a good one. Just one that makes sense. 

That's Capela and Bogi for Ayton and Crowder 

Ayton is struggling this year. His effort been inconsistent and he's even less involved in the offense without CP3 than he was before. His WAR is one of the worst in the NBA at -0.9. That said, he's still an elite screener with similar gravity to JC and his team defense which has regressed is generally solid. 

Crowder like Bogi hasn't played this year. 

Capela been huge this year. One of the reasons we are 4th in the east and his WAR is 2nd on our team to Murray. But fit and potential is why I do this trade.

As for JC, keep him till you get his value up to a reasonable level. As of right now, I don't see anything out there that makes him tradeable and having Ayton helps JC as they can play off each other a lot more and the spacing will be good again where JC doesn't need to be more to be effective. 

 

What do you think?

 

JC and Bogi for Olynk, Beasely, and Clarkson is more realistic and the salaries match..( Im hearing Utah is still interested in JC, but they dont want to include Markennen. Not sure how true that is)... Trae wont be happy losing Capela in your scenario.. And I wont either.. he and DJM just has to figure it out or maybe Murray aint the right fit.. CC fits too well with Trae..

Trae/DJM/Hunter/Olynk/CC

Clarkson/Beasley/AJ/JJ/OO

Starting lineup might lose some defense and rebounding(maybe), but The bench would get a HUGE scoring boost(it also keeps the Holidays on the bench until needed. lol).. And 2 of the 3 contracts are expiring.. 

I knew it was gonna be a tough fit offensively. Murray does most of his work inside the paint. 

What happened to the  "dribble, shoot, and pass" vision Travis used to preach about?

We have 3 guys who cant dribble, or pass(Dre,CC,JC) and 2 or 3 that cant even shoot in the starting lineup...

Schlenk is all over the place.

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by terrell

[Jdawgflow]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

He's right though.

Trying to get everybody else going, and not Trae, has led us to be a below .500 team even in the past 3 years.  

But if Trae gets going, and he's able to get to that 30 point mark, the Hawks are well over .500.  And moreso this season, seeing that we're 5 - 1 when Trae scores 30 or more.

 

 

 

And that only L was when Giannis was getting foul calls while looking like a bowling ball hitting pins.

9 minutes ago, terrell said:

 

JC and Bogi for Olynk, Beasely, and Clarkson is more realistic and the salaries match..( Im hearing Utah is still interested in JC, but they dont want to include Markennen. Not sure how true that is)... Trae wont be happy losing Capela in your scenario.. And I wont either.. he and DJM just has to figure it out or maybe Murray aint the right fit.. CC fits too well with Trae..

Trae/DJM/Hunter/Olynk/CC

Clarkson/Beasley/AJ/JJ/OO

Starting lineup might lose some defense and rebounding(maybe), but The bench would get a HUGE scoring boost(it also keeps the Holidays on the bench until needed. lol).. And 2 of the 3 contracts are expiring.. 

I knew it was gonna be a tough fit offensively. Murray does most of his work inside the paint. 

What happened to the  "dribble, shoot, and pass" vision Travis used to preach about?

We have 3 guys who cant dribble, or pass(Dre,CC,JC) and 2 or 3 that cant even shoot in the starting lineup...

Schlenk is all over the place.

 

If the two 1st (not protected) are still offered with this I would consider it.

[terrell]

10 minutes ago, Jdawgflow said:

And that only L was when Giannis was getting foul calls while looking like a bowling ball hitting pins.

If the two 1st (not protected) are still offered with this I would consider it.

In a heartbeat...