Name your top 10 all time list of NBA players

[djjob23]

10 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

You wanna lead the way for 11-20? It’s your world dawg! I’m already thinking about my list.  

I’M IN! Let’s do it! 

 

Spoiler

djjob23’s Top 10 All Time:

1. Michael “Air” Jordan (GOAT)
2. Bill “Mr. 11 Rings” Russell
3. Kareem “The Captain” Abdul-Jabbar
4. LeBron “King” James
5. Tim “Mr. Fundamental” Duncan 
6. Wilt “The Stilt” Chamberlain
7. Ervin “Magic” Johnson
8. Larry “Legend” Bird
9. Shaq “Diesel” O’Neal
10. Steph “Chef” Curry

djjob23’s Top 11-20 All Time:

11. Hakeem “The Dream” Olajuwon
12. Kobe “Mamba” Bryant
13. Jerry “Mr. Clutch” West
14. Oscar “Big O” Robertson
15. Kevin “KD” Durant
16. Moses “Chairman of the Boards” Malone
17. Kevin “Big Ticket” Garnett
18. Dirk “German Wunderkind” Nowitzki
19. Julius “Dr. J” Erving
20. Karl “Mailman” Malone

Is Karl really that low for me? Would he have been as great without Stockton feeding him? I dunno, but today he’s this low.

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, djjob23 said:

14. Oscar “Big O” Robertson

Some folks prolly wanna fight you for having him this low. Prolly the same folks who were making a huge deal out of calling Okongwu Big O.  

 

Oscar, now this is a top 3-5 player which i would have loved to see live. A triple double machine before they even started recording them is equivalent to Deacon Jones and his infinity sacks. I mean they went back and counted Oscar’s games but having never even been in the back of his mind that triple doubles would be glorified after he retired is impressive.

Much respect sir!

[AHF]

15 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

@Diesel @djjob23 @akay @AHF

Had Duncan at 10th, 5th, 6th and 6th respectively on their lists..

I didn’t. 
 

I could be missing something. I mean, to be fair, I didn’t have Karl Malone on my list of the top 10 either so maybe I just hate generational power forwards. I didn’t even have KG (debateable he was on Pau’s list), no Dirk either… yea, apparently I hate power forwards. This could explain the JJ hate but how come not Siakam then..  

He was basically a center.  Defensively he anchored the interior D and offensively he was a killer in the post with the ability to shoot the J.  He also was a killer without an ego.  Rare talent and rare temperament.  

[AHF]

15 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Thanks as always? 

You’re Lekidding me?  3rd? 

I said without real deliberation or research because I probably have a top 10 list that I spent more time on and was a little different.  

IMO, LeBron is a true generational player and one of the very best of all time.  The only post-Jordan player with an argument against him is Duncan.  It sure isn’t Kobe.

[Spud2nique]

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

The only post-Jordan player with an argument against him is Duncan.  It sure isn’t Kobe.

Wait why? Duncan and Kobe both have 4 rings right? Kobe a 19 time all star ️, no seriously why?  

[djjob23]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Some folks prolly wanna fight you for having him this low. Prolly the same folks who were making a huge deal out of calling Okongwu Big O.  

 

Oscar, now this is a top 3-5 player which i would have loved to see live. A triple double machine before they even started recording them is equivalent to Deacon Jones and his infinity sacks. I mean they went back and counted Oscar’s games but having never even been in the back of his mind that triple doubles would be glorified after he retired is impressive.

Much respect sir!

Yes, wish I could’ve watched Big O live as well! After doing a deeper dive, I agree I’m being too harsh on Big O. If I want to stay true to my generational filter, I could absolutely see an argument moving Big O as high as 9! Although he wasn’t known for his defense, he did improve in that area and the Royals went to the playoffs when he was Top 20 in DWS (on a bad team). Add his elite offense/playmakingn (triple-double machine) and you have a recipe for a Top 10 All Time player. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'm only listing players that I have seen play, so that means everyone who was dominant before 1980 may be left off, except Kareem

 

PG - Magic / Curry / Stockton

G - Jordan / Kobe

F - Lebron / Bird

PF - Duncan / Malone / Durant

C - Kareem / Shaq

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I'm only listing players that I have seen play, so that means everyone who was dominant before 1980 may be left off, except Kareem

 

PG - Magic / Curry / Stockton

G - Jordan / Kobe

F - Lebron / Bird

PF - Duncan / Malone / Durant

C - Kareem / Shaq

 

Tough call between Stockton and Olajuwon.  Most would choose Hakeem.  I'll keep Stockton on the list because unless Trae does it, his assist record will not be broken.

 

1 - Jordan

2 - Lebron

3 - Kareem

4 - Magic

5 - Duncan

6 - Kobe

7 - Malone

8 - Shaq

9 - Bird

10 - Curry

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Wait why? Duncan and Kobe both have 4 rings right? Kobe a 19 time all star ️, no seriously why?  

You're asking for a mountain of Longevity stats. 

When the truth is Kobe never went out of his way to recruit help and after Shaq left, I believe Kobe won Chips with a lot less help than Lebron had.   Kobe didn't need a bubble and Kobe didn't need to goad a player to lose the series for his team. 

 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Wait why? Duncan and Kobe both have 4 rings right? Kobe a 19 time all star ️, no seriously why?  

Shaq carried Kobe for their first few rings.  Then Pau contributed almost as much as Kobe did (more than Kobe if you believe the advanced metrics).

Kobe is overrated like AI for me.  Kobe is much better than AI but not a top 10 guy for me and that isn’t close.

[macdaddy]

With the exception of Wilt I'm just putting guys i've seen play.  In no real order.  

1. Hakeem
2. Jordan
3. Kareem
4. Curry
5. Lebron
6. Kobe
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Wilt
10. bird

 

 

 

[shakes]

Gonna do it a little different and pick my top 10 favorite players of all time.  Off the top of my head and I'm sure I forgot some people...

 

1.  MJ

2.  Scottie

3.  Trae

4.  Chris Mullin

5.  Derrick Rose (pre-injuries)

6.  Chris Jackson (Mahmoud Abdul Rauf)

7.  Rocket Rod Strickland

8.  Bobby Hurley

9.  Dennis Rodman (Bulls version)

10.  Mark Aguirre

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, shakes said:

6.  Chris Jackson (Mahmoud Abdul Rauf)

He remains one of the biggest mysteries to me why he wasn't a bigger star in the NBA.  Then again, I also remain mystified that he, Shaq and Stanley Roberts couldn't make any real noise in the NCAA tournament.  He was so good in college and looked like he could unlock dominance at times in the NBA but never quite got there.

Quote

8.  Bobby Hurley

[shakes]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

He remains one of the biggest mysteries to me why he wasn't a bigger star in the NBA.  Then again, I also remain mystified that he, Shaq and Stanley Roberts couldn't make any real noise in the NCAA tournament.  He was so good in college and looked like he could unlock dominance at times in the NBA but never quite got there.

It's really not much of a mystery.  For the answer just look back to 1987 and Bobby Knight's quote after his Hoosiers came back from double digits in the 2nd half to beat LSU in the NCAA tourney.

 

Reporter:  We're you worried down double digits in the 2nd half?

Knight:   I started to get concerned, but then I looked down to the other end of the court and remembered that they had Dale Brown coaching and I knew I had nothing to worry about.

 

That pretty much sums up LSU during that time period.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

bird

 

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Hakeem

 
 

Funny the first and last on your list clashed in 86 in the finals and a few years earlier and I lived in Houston. I was teetering between becoming a hometown fan of the or what I had witness a few months back with Nique, Spud and the gang. 
 

My dad moved us to Cali. I became a Hawks fan. Akeem almost got me..  a  

Edited August 14, 2023 by Spud2nique

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

In no real order.  

Oh ok I was gonna say Mac had his “controversial brew ️ “ this morning  

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Curry

We used to be friends..  

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Duncan

Duncan again makes a top 10 list. I’m ready to kick off 11-20  

[Diesel]

14 hours ago, AHF said:

Shaq carried Kobe for their first few rings.  Then Pau contributed almost as much as Kobe did (more than Kobe if you believe the advanced metrics).

Kobe is overrated like AI for me.  Kobe is much better than AI but not a top 10 guy for me and that isn’t close.

What??

Lakers 4-1 over Orlando...  Summary stats...

 

Kobe put up 32.4, 5.6, and 7.4...  and he's Overrated?

Kobe put up 28, 8, and 4 against Boston in 7... the  next time out.. and you say Overrated??

[Spud2nique]

54 minutes ago, shakes said:

Chris Jackson (Mahmoud Abdul Rauf)

Maqui is the don’t even get me started. I love that Muslim! Although to be fair, I loved Chris Jackson too . 
 

He may have been the best pure shooter the game has ever seen.

Maqi

Peja

*that lil fck in the bay (and his pops Dell)

Mullin

B(t)urd

 

[Spud2nique]

59 minutes ago, shakes said:

8.  Bobby Hurley

Why not Dan Dickau? 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Spud2nique

[AHF]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

What??

Lakers 4-1 over Orlando...  Summary stats...

 

Kobe put up 32.4, 5.6, and 7.4...  and he's Overrated?

Kobe put up 28, 8, and 4 against Boston in 7... the  next time out.. and you say Overrated??

You just gave a good example of why I consider Kobe overrated in the context of discussing the very best handful of players in all of NBA history and compared him with AI.  AI put up high PPG on low scoring efficiencies.  Kobe shot 43% from the floor in the example you just gave which isn't anything historically impressive in terms of dominant scoring.  That is 32.4 PPG on 27 FGA/gm.  Good but top 10 finals performance all-time level great?

Compare that to LeBron's third ring (this was Kobe's third ring if I'm not mistaken):

Kobe 3rd Ring vs LeBron 3rd Ring - NBA Finals

Kobe 32.4 PPG on 43% FG% at 27 FGA/gm  vs 29.7 PPG on 49% FG% on 23.7 FGA (so Kobe scored 2.7 more points on 3.3 more shots, oof)

Kobe 5.6 RPG vs LeBron 11.3 RPG

Kobe 7.4 APG vs. LeBron 8.9 APG

Kobe 1.4 SPG vs. LeBron 2.6 SPG

Kobe 1.4 BPG vs. LeBron 2.3 BPG

(maybe better to just combine the SPG and BPG)  

Now you crapped on this ring for LeBron but when I compare the individual performance this is an example of LeBron being way better.

 

Kobe 3rd Ring vs. LeBron 3rd Ring Regular Season

Let's look further into that season:  2008-09 Lakers

Let's look at the advanced metrics for that year's regular season:

PER / Win Shares

Kobe 24.4 PER / 12.7 WS

Pau 22.2 / 13.9 WS

 

Now compare to LeBron's Cleveland title season (i.e,., third ring for both):

PER / WS

Lebron 27.5 / 13.6 WS

Kyrie 19.9 / 5.0 WS

Love 19.0 / 8.5 WS

 

Are we sure Kobe was so much better than LeBron in their third title seasons and so much more individually responsible for the ring that year than their teammates?  It kind of looks to me like LeBron is way ahead of Kobe here.

 

Second Ring vs Second Ring

How about Kobe's second title season versus LeBron's second title season?

Finals Per Game

Shaq 33 PPG on 22 FGA/gm, 15.8 RPG, 4.8 APG, 3.8 S+B/gm

Kobe 24.6 PPG on 21.2 FGA/gm, 7.8 RPG, 5.8 APG, 2.8 S+B/gm

Regular Season PER  / WS

Shaq 30.2 / 14.9

Kobe 24.5 / 11.3 

 

Finals Per Game 

LeBron 25.3 PPG on 21.4 FGA/gm, 10.9 RPG, 7.0 APG, 3.2 S+B /gm

Wade 19.6 PPG on 18 FGA/gm, 4.0 RPG, 4.6 APG, 3.2 S+B/gm

Regular Season PER  / WS

LeBron 31.6 PER / 19.3 WS

Wade 24.0 PER / 9.6 WS

 

We see here that LeBron and Shaq are carrying the water while Kobe and Wade are the second bananas, right?  I deliberately didn't pick on Kobe by picking his first championship year where the gap is even larger.  

Remember the Lakers won that first finals with Shaq averaging 38 PPG on 61% FG% while Kobe put up 15.6 PPG on 37% FG%.  That is the definition of being carried.

 

Let's not mix up what I'm saying.  Nique is an All-Time great.  Kobe is an All-Time great.  These are not run of the mill players.  They just don't make it into my top All-Time Top 10.

Kobe is only overrated here because some people have him in the mix for greatest player of all time or at least in their top 5.  He isn't in that conversation for me.