Hoopshype list of the greatest 77 players ever

[Spud2nique]

Bob Pettit  #31

Nique #43

Pistol #67

https://hoopshype.com/lists/77-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

 

The Nique ranking. I have a problem with this. When he retired he was the 9th best scorer in NabA history. He was left off the original greatest 50 list…

I’m fine if he’s 43.. BUT, Bird can’t be #7, Charles Barkley #25 and Pippen #27. It’s wrong. These guys are all on par, if you twist my arm, fine, Bird a tad notch higher but why Sir Charles and Pipp.. Bird too high as well at 7th overall. Wade at #23 is an absolute joke. Dolph Schayes.. I didn’t watch that era but Pettit was good, Dolph was a$$. @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @macdaddy @warcore @akay @Sothron @AHF @everyone else. Thoughts? 

[shakes]

14 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Bob Pettit  #31

Nique #43

Pistol #67

https://hoopshype.com/lists/77-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

 

The Nique ranking. I have a problem with this. When he retired he was the 9th best scorer in NabA history. He was left off the original greatest 50 list…

I’m fine if he’s 43.. BUT, Bird can’t be #7, Charles Barkley #25 and Pippen #27. It’s wrong. These guys are all on par, if you twist my arm, fine, Bird a tad notch higher but why Sir Charles and Pipp.. Bird too high as well at 7th overall. Wade at #23 is an absolute joke. Dolph Schayes.. I didn’t watch that era but Pettit was good, Dolph was a$$. @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @macdaddy @warcore @akay @Sothron @AHF @everyone else. Thoughts? 

homering at it's finest.  Nique wasn't in the same class as Barkley or Pippen.   Great dunker and scorer though.

[Diesel]

14 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I didn’t watch that era but Pettit was good, Dolph was a$$. @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @macdaddy @warcore @akay @Sothron @AHF @everyone else. Thoughts? 

[shakes]

jesus Spud, the have Nique ahead of George Mikan.    So stop your crying.  Nique is probably one of the most overrated players on that list.  

[Diesel]

There are some natural questions that this list brings up..

1.  Hakeem vs. Duncan?

2.  Bird vs. Curry?

3.  Stockton vs. Kidd?

4.  Isaiah vs. CP3?

And Most importantly for Hawks fans...

5.  Nique vs. Kawhi vs. Barkley?

 

Yeah I'm shaking the tree @shakes.   The overrated Nique vs. an admittedly overrated Barkley vs.  The King of Team Kawhi. 

First Kawhi.  Best team guy ever.  Great defender.   Good scorer.  But... can he lead? I've never got Lead dog vibes from Kawhi.   Always a guy who needs to be similar to Pippen or even Horace Grant.   2nd or 3rd best player on the squad.  He won't make mistakes but at the same time he won't lead you to the promised land.   He's the Master of Load Management.  He's the master of I'm not playing for you anymore; trade me.    In comparison to Nique who went out every night with a team on his back and gave what he had... I can't say that I'm reaching for Kawhi if I'm starting a team.  He's a good complimentary player but He's not a leader. 

Barkley.  Great player.  Is he better than Nique?  Is he 18 places better than Nique?

While I'm on my Kawhi soapbox....  Why is Kawhi listed above Jokic?

Hakeem vs. Duncan.  I got Hakeem.   Defense and Offense and putting the team on his back.  Both were very fundamental.  But Hakeem won in the Jordan era. 

Stockton vs. Kidd.   Hmm.

Most people don't like CP3, but I respect his resume. 

Bird vs. Curry...  Taking nothing away for Larry Legend,  the Curry disrespect is egregious .   Curry changed Basketball.  Whereas Bird and Magic were great caretakers of Basketball, Curry took the remnants of the Jordan era and made the Curry Era. 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

58 minutes ago, Diesel said:

My bad D you always here, you’re like a host already … ok fine I forgot… people forget ok it was an honest mistake.. look at Home Alone! They forgot! 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

First Kawhi.  Best team guy ever.  Great defender.   Good scorer.  But... can he lead? I've never got Lead dog vibes from Kawhi.   Always a guy who needs to be similar to Pippen or even Horace Grant.   2nd or 3rd best player on the squad.  He won't make mistakes but at the same time he won't lead you to the promised land.   He's the Master of Load Management.  He's the master of I'm not playing for you anymore; trade me.    In comparison to Nique who went out every night with a team on his back and gave what he had... I can't say that I'm reaching for Kawhi if I'm starting a team.  He's a good complimentary player but He's not a leader. 

Well, Kawhi did lead Toronto to the promised land so I can't say he won't ever do that.  He won a ring as a supporting cast member and as a Robin in SA and won a ring as the lead dog in Toronto.  I fully agree he isn't a leader and isn't someone you could rely on to stay happy playing for  you but you can't dismiss him this much.

Quote

Barkley.  Great player.  Is he better than Nique?  Is he 18 places better than Nique?

I get why Barkley is higher.  He was the best player on an NBA finals team.  He was MVP.  It doesn't hurt my head.

Quote

Hakeem vs. Duncan.  I got Hakeem.   Defense and Offense and putting the team on his back.  Both were very fundamental.  But Hakeem won in the Jordan era. 

Hakeem won the two seasons that Jordan was playing baseball.  He never beat the Bulls in the Jordan era.  One season Jordan literally did not play at all.  The second championship was when Jordan came back for the last 17 or so games of the season out of shape and the Bulls ended up as a 47 win team.  Jordan shot 41% from the floor and was clearly still getting his legs back under him.  When he was back the next season, it was 3 more titles for Chicago.

That said, I do think there is a good discussion about Hakeem vs Duncan but the idea that Hakeem won in the Jordan era is not a legit point to be made since he never won when Jordan was actually there.  (IMO, those Rockets teams would have been run off the floor and joined the Malone Jazz, Barkley Suns, GP/Kemp Sonics, etc.  as runners up.)  

I'm very high on both Hakeem and Duncan.

Quote

Bird vs. Curry...  Taking nothing away for Larry Legend,  the Curry disrespect is egregious .   Curry changed Basketball.  Whereas Bird and Magic were great caretakers of Basketball, Curry took the remnants of the Jordan era and made the Curry Era. 

I think you are hugely underrating Bird and Magic's impact.  The NBA was more changed by their time than by the GS Warriors run.  Curry absolutely impacted the game but the NBA went from a secondary sport to joining the big boys during the Bird/Magic era.  

15 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Bob Pettit  #31

Nique #43

Pistol #67

https://hoopshype.com/lists/77-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

 

The Nique ranking. I have a problem with this. When he retired he was the 9th best scorer in NabA history. He was left off the original greatest 50 list…

I’m fine if he’s 43.. BUT, Bird can’t be #7, Charles Barkley #25 and Pippen #27. It’s wrong. These guys are all on par, if you twist my arm, fine, Bird a tad notch higher but why Sir Charles and Pipp.. Bird too high as well at 7th overall. Wade at #23 is an absolute joke. Dolph Schayes.. I didn’t watch that era but Pettit was good, Dolph was a$$. @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @macdaddy @warcore @akay @Sothron @AHF @everyone else. Thoughts? 

Overall, I'm pretty happy with Nique being rated #43.  I definitely think you can debate placement of a bunch of people up or down but that feels about right to me overall.  (Pistol is among those who are way overrated.  He should not be on a top 77 list at all.)  Pettit was the original Tim Duncan and deserves a good spot. 

I do think Bird deserves to be rated significantly higher.  I would not have that big of a gap between Nique and Pippen.  We saw what a Pippen in prime Bulls team did and it looked a lot like the Nique Hawks.  (55 win, second round exit; 40-something win pace before Jordan's return the next year).  As I said above, I get why you would have the Chuck Wagon higher than Nique.  You can argue about whether it should be that big a gap but eh.  (Agree Wade is too high as well).

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I do think Bird deserves to be rated significantly higher.

Whoa higher than 7? I would put him in the late teens. That’s ridiculous. Also Lebron is not #2. No way.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Whoa higher than 7? I would put him in the late teens. That’s ridiculous. Also Lebron is not #2. No way.

No.  Significantly higher than Barkley, Nique and Pippen.

[Jdawgflow]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

There are some natural questions that this list brings up..

1.  Hakeem vs. Duncan?

2.  Bird vs. Curry?

3.  Stockton vs. Kidd?

4.  Isaiah vs. CP3?

And Most importantly for Hawks fans...

5.  Nique vs. Kawhi vs. Barkley?

 

Yeah I'm shaking the tree @shakes.   The overrated Nique vs. an admittedly overrated Barkley vs.  The King of Team Kawhi. 

First Kawhi.  Best team guy ever.  Great defender.   Good scorer.  But... can he lead? I've never got Lead dog vibes from Kawhi.   Always a guy who needs to be similar to Pippen or even Horace Grant.   2nd or 3rd best player on the squad.  He won't make mistakes but at the same time he won't lead you to the promised land.   He's the Master of Load Management.  He's the master of I'm not playing for you anymore; trade me.    In comparison to Nique who went out every night with a team on his back and gave what he had... I can't say that I'm reaching for Kawhi if I'm starting a team.  He's a good complimentary player but He's not a leader. 

Barkley.  Great player.  Is he better than Nique?  Is he 18 places better than Nique?

While I'm on my Kawhi soapbox....  Why is Kawhi listed above Jokic?

Hakeem vs. Duncan.  I got Hakeem.   Defense and Offense and putting the team on his back.  Both were very fundamental.  But Hakeem won in the Jordan era. 

Stockton vs. Kidd.   Hmm.

Most people don't like CP3, but I respect his resume. 

Bird vs. Curry...  Taking nothing away for Larry Legend,  the Curry disrespect is egregious .   Curry changed Basketball.  Whereas Bird and Magic were great caretakers of Basketball, Curry took the remnants of the Jordan era and made the Curry Era. 

 

 

While I'm on my Kawhi soapbox....  Why is Kawhi listed above Jokic?
 

this comment is spot on D.  Jokic May end up top 5 all time if he keeps this up.  He is doing things no one else does like Wilt did.

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, AHF said:

Well, Kawhi did lead Toronto to the promised land so I can't say he won't ever do that.  He won a ring as a supporting cast member and as a Robin in SA and won a ring as the lead dog in Toronto.  I fully agree he isn't a leader and isn't someone you could rely on to stay happy playing for  you but you can't dismiss him this much.

Kawhi was the best player on the luckiest championship team ever.   How many times have 2 star players gone down for a series?  Even after KD went down, it was expected that GS would win the series but when they lost Splash Bro #2...  Just hand it to Toronto.   Not to mention the Luckiest Bounce in the history of the playoffs. 

 

 

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, AHF said:

That said, I do think there is a good discussion about Hakeem vs Duncan but the idea that Hakeem won in the Jordan era is not a legit point to be made since he never won when Jordan was actually there.  (IMO, those Rockets teams would have been run off the floor and joined the Malone Jazz, Barkley Suns, GP/Kemp Sonics, etc.  as runners up.)  

The Jordan Era is more than just about Jordan.    Think of the teams that were great in the time that Hakeem won...

Knicks, Magic, Pacers, Cavs, Hawks, and the Bulls.. this was just coming through the East.  Utah, Phoenix, San Anton, Golden State....  That's not suggesting that San Antonio had an easy road but New Jersey made it to the Chip twice.

I just think the competition was ratcheded up in that era. 

 

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, AHF said:

I think you are hugely underrating Bird and Magic's impact.  The NBA was more changed by their time than by the GS Warriors run.  Curry absolutely impacted the game but the NBA went from a secondary sport to joining the big boys during the Bird/Magic era.  

I don't disagree with you about the overall rise of the NBA.. I would say more about Stern than Just Bird and Magic.   Stern's idea to showcase players rather than teams saved Basketball and made Bird and Magic into Stars along with Dr. J.   However, as great as they were, they did not change the way that the game is played.   That's what I'm talking about... Who has changed the way the game is played.

1.  Kareem.   For a while, they outlawed the Dunk because of Kareem. 

2.  Jordan.  I think the Jordan style of play was the impetus for hand checking rules that came along after he played. Illegal defenses also. 

3.  Curry.  His style stretched the floor for all players. 

I would like to say Magic brought in the Fast break but that was something that had been played and perfected by Paul Westhead.  I guess you can say that the Celtics had the first Big three?

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 hours ago, shakes said:

jesus Spud, the have Nique ahead of George Mikan.    So stop your crying.  Nique is probably one of the most overrated players on that list.  

Quick!  Name the All-Stars that Nique ever played with.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Quick!  Name the All-Stars that Nique ever played with.

Kasten and Babcock did a poor job of putting another star beside Nique.  Nique played with a few complimentary guys and several hacks.   When People discount Nique and talk about how he's overrated... They fail to think about his contemporaries.

Jordan had Pippen. 

Barkley had the whole Philly team and then KJ  and let's not mention Houston. 

So many of these other greats had another player who is probably in the top 75 players in history on their team.   Not Nique.  

So many of these other greats had at least another player who was a multitime allstar still in their prime on their team.  Not Nique.

These comparisons are not apples to apples when you consider the level of talent surrounding Nique vs. the level of talent surrounding these other players. 

In the fashion of most of the stars of Atlanta Sports, Nique had to put the whole city squarely on his back and raise us up!

 

 

[AHF]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

Kasten and Babcock did a poor job of putting another star beside Nique.  Nique played with a few complimentary guys and several hacks.   When People discount Nique and talk about how he's overrated... They fail to think about his contemporaries.

Jordan had Pippen. 

Barkley had the whole Philly team and then KJ  and let's not mention Houston. 

So many of these other greats had another player who is probably in the top 75 players in history on their team.   Not Nique.  

So many of these other greats had at least another player who was a multitime allstar still in their prime on their team.  Not Nique.

These comparisons are not apples to apples when you consider the level of talent surrounding Nique vs. the level of talent surrounding these other players. 

In the fashion of most of the stars of Atlanta Sports, Nique had to put the whole city squarely on his back and raise us up!

 

 

Jordan had two players on that top 77 list with him:  Pippen and Rodman.  Pippen alone was a 7x All-Star in Chicago.  Jordan had another All-Star in Ho Grant as well.  

Barkley had two on that list and numerous All-Stars.  Maurice Cheeks who was a 3x All-Star with Barkley, Moses Malone (top 77) and 2x All-Star with Barkley, Dr. J (top 77) 3x All-Star with Barkley, Hershey Hawkins 1x All-Star with Barkley, Dan Majerle 2x All-Star with Barkley, Kevin Johnson 1x All-Star with Barkley, etc.  (I'm not counting All-Star appearances when they weren't on Barkley's team).  

For Nique, Moses Malone was the only one on the list and he made one All-Star appearance with the Hawks but was clearly past his prime at age 33.  Doc made one All-Star team.  Kevin Willis made one All-Star team.  Mookie made one.  Nobody else is jumping to mind for me but I may be missing someone.

There is no doubt it is an apples to oranges situation in terms of quality teammates.  Fully agree that Kasten and Babcock were not good.