I don't buy BK's 3 forward theory

[DawsonsCreek]

I just don't buy this 3 forward lineup theory Billy Knight talked about yesterday consisting of Marvin, Al and Smith. First of all none of those guys is gonna be able to guard any of these guys on a consistant basis: Richard Hamilton, Michael Redd, Dwayne Wade, and Ben Gordon, etc...And thats just in the east. Second of all, Based on Bk's theory Josh Childress is the odd man out of the starting lineup. I dont think Josh Childress is the player you sit on the bench after the kind of year he had and the money hes making.

Seriously, how many forwards/2 guards are the hawks gonna take without letting someone go and not filling other positions. I think Marvin Williams being here is gonna mean the end of Al Harrington as an Atlanta Hawk. Whether its the Hawks Decision (draft trade or mid season trade) or Al's decision (not resigning at the end of the year.) I have a hard time thinking that the Hawks would give Al Harrington a ton of money (in the prime of his career) at the end of the year when they potentially would give alot to Marvin (who plays the same position.) And i'm sure Al wouldnt tolerate being a bench player either, once they find out the "3 headed monster" (forward lineup) will not be able to keep up on the defensive end against smaller/quicker lineups.

Anyway, if we do roll with Marvin I would like to see it go like this....

*Jarrett Jack

Josh Childress

Josh Smith

Marvin Williams

(Insert Center Here) Kwame, Birdman, Swift, Randolph Morris etc...

(* obtain him by trading Al's talents and expiring contract)

I know that lineup is young but SIGN ME UP FOR TICKETS. I don't think that lineup is too unrealistic.

[Diesel]

It's a noble thought to think that all we have to do is trade Al for a midrounder. BUT BK won't do that. He's as serious about keeping Al as he is about drafting #2. I told you guys and told you guys that BK sees AL as being part of the future and his illustration of a 3 forward rotation proves just that.

When you put it into real practice however the person getting screwed the most is going to be Smoove. Will we ever know how good Smoove could be? I believe that Smoove was better than MWill in HS and is still better now. He's definitely a better fit for Woodson. BUT... BK makes the decisions... If we were Smart, we'd work out something for Deron Williams and maybe another pick..

Maybe a trade down of Williams to PTL for #3, #35...

At least that way, we could have more trading possibilities... I would still like to see if we could convert either 31 or 35 to a top 22 pick... but you know?

The point is this.. We will have the exact same team that we put on the floor last year... MWill will play, but I don't expect greatness from him and really, he may take away from Smoove.

[KB21]

You told us that Billy saw Al as part of the future?

Mr. Al Harrington trade a day?

I think it is the other way around. There have been people on here, including me, that have repeatedly told you that Billy really likes Al and would like to keep him long term.

[Diesel]

But none of us are BK...

I thought for Financial reasons BK should consider trading AL.. However, that was before the Cap hiked from 43 Million to 50 Million... and Contracts changes from 7 yr max contracts to 6 or 5 yr max contracts. Now... Keeping Al is not a bad move if he signs an extension... We will still need Depth if nothing else. BUT...

Williams and Smoove still plays the same positions... Stay on subject KB.

How does Getting Williams effect Smoove. I say that it can't be good.

[shug94]

When he said three forwards did he mean F, F, F, SG, PG or C, F, F, F, PG. Because Either would be interesting.

[Yeti]

Well, I think it might be interesting to see how that would work. I am more interested how we handle a Duncan or Shaq than anyone you mentioned. But I think the point was that we automatically think a team must have a PG, SG, SF, PF, and C - maybe another idea would work just as well. People have tried "twin towers". And matchups have to work both ways.

On the college side, Washington just ran the last two years with essentially four guards and a forward - and were reasonably successful because of their talent. I doubt that could work in the NBA but it shows what an innovative coach can do. And remember Jacksonville many years ago, playing three 7-footers on the floor together? Just be ready to try something new.

Regarding Childress, I assumed he wasn't mentioned because he would be a SG.

Actually, I like your line-up. I am not so sure about Jack - I don't know if we are objective about him or influenced too much because of him being "local". But he might work (as could Ukic or Robinson). Might also add Bynum to your list of possible centers (after some development).

yeti

((on the other hand, isn't BK famous for blowing smoke before the draft?))

[DawsonsCreek]

Bottom line is if you draft marvin williams, you have a log jam and someone has to sit or get traded. I dont beleive you get so top heavy at one or 2 positions when you have NOTHING at pg and center. I have no idea what the hawks are gonna do. Hey Im all for finding a way to get Deron, but if we roll with Marvin, which i beleive is most likely, its like a continuous cycle...next year are they gonna draft rudy gay cause he might be the best player in the draft? Oh yeah hes also a SF/PF 18 years old; 6' 9"; 220 lbs. Who is the odd man out then next year? I mean lets start filling some needs and start winning games.

[Sage11]

" ((on the other hand, isn't BK famous for blowing smoke before the draft?)) "

I think that is all this is "smoke."

BK knows we need to build a team and stop being the equivalent of a NDBL franchise to the rest of the NBA.

[ggp]

My biggest worry is that BK will ignore the very good PG's in this draft. The opportunity to draft a franshise PG does not come around often. I really want one of the top two PG's this year.

Does anyone really think that Ivey will become a top PG in the NBA?

[RAHMOR]

The slow progress of Chilz didn't bother me too much last season even with Iggy and Deng playing well.

But if Deron and Paul come out next season looking great and playing for other teams while we have log jam at foward and only win 20 games it will drive me crazy. Even if Marv puts of good numbers.

[hawkman]

I agree. In order to rebuild successfully, you have to use the draft to fill positions of need. Our key positions of need are center and point guard. We have our pick of 4-5 point guards in this draft who have the potential to become stars in this league. The Hawks cannot blow this opportunity to pick up something that we actually need. With quality peices already in place at the 3 and 4 spots, why on earth would you consider picking another combo forward? It's redundant. I agree that M Williams appears to have potential, but his game seems to be a carbon copy of Al's. The bottom line is that he is a 6'8-1/4" combo forward with good athleticism and a decent jump shot. If that's what we're looking for, why not trade down and draft antoine wright? At least we would get another first rounder out of the deal.

[Sage11]

You are not the only one that will hit the roof. I do not think the fan base will support another 20-win season of unconventional misfits parading as a NBA basketball team. We may have a collection of 6'9 ers full of potential and talent, but if they can't win, heads will roll. Please dont misunderstand me, I love my hawks but at the end of the day, the Hawks must win, and they must do so as a team, not simply a collection of talent with confused roles because everyone has a very similar game.

At least one of the two most glaring needs of this team must be addressed with the number two pick. Since we cannot have or draft Bogut at center, then we need a real point guard that can run the team on the floor, create opportunities for his teammates and play solid perimeter defense. Currently, we do not have that.

[emeans]

Quote:

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I told you guys and told you guys that BK sees AL as being part of the future and his illustration of a 3 forward rotation proves just that.

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No disrespect, but let the record show that I and one or two other guys like KB21, told YOU guys that Al was staying and that he was in BKs plan. BK has never said that he was even remotely thinking of moving Al.

You had Al being traded every 30 minutes on this forum.

This want necessarily be the same team if you draft Randolph Morris at 31. Sign Kwame Brown and maybe Earl Watson. Take a shot at Joe Johnson. Cut everyone else except Lue. You have a pretty nice squad.

[emeans]

He would probably go with both lineups depending on the matchups. I think the C, F, F, F, PG match up would be nice if the right PG is running it and we get a legimate Center.

[Nicholasp27]

we need a superstar at some point (or at least a legit star)...maybe bk isn't so worried about filling positions until we get a star to build around and contend...so maybe he wants marvin because he could be a superstar

he isn't worried about winning >20 games next year...he's worried about contending in 3 years

if marvin turns out to be a legit superstar, then we'll contend faster than if we draft a pg

deron/paul may be great pgs, but look at the long list of good pgs in the league these days...practically every team has a good pg...what u need to contend is a superstar/star unless u have dominant defense and perfect chemistry like detroit

[AHF]

Quote:

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if marvin turns out to be a legit superstar, then we'll contend faster than if we draft a pg

deron/paul may be great pgs, but look at the long list of good pgs in the league these days...practically every team has a good pg...what u need to contend is a superstar/star unless u have dominant defense and perfect chemistry like detroit

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I agree with this.

[hawkman]

I can understand the reasoning of why BK might be interested in picking up Marvin. But if you need a "superstar" to contend then how do you explain the Detroit Pistons' success? The Hawks have a chance to add a can't miss point guard who can contribute right away. Contrary to popular opinion, the hawks are not that far away from being a respectable franchise that can attract free agents. But you have to show some stability at some point. Redundancy at a certain position doesn't help and trading away your best player(s) every season sure doesn't help either. We have some good young players at positions 2-4 who showed some great promise in their first year as Hawks. Give them a chance to build on that by drafting a floor general who can maximize their respective potentials.

[AHF]

Quote:

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I can understand the reasoning of why BK might be interested in picking up Marvin. But if you need a "superstar" to contend then how do you explain the Detroit Pistons' success? The Hawks have a chance to add a can't miss point guard who can contribute right away. Contrary to popular opinion, the hawks are not that far away from being a respectable franchise that can attract free agents. But you have to show some stability at some point. Redundancy at a certain position doesn't help and trading away your best player(s) every season sure doesn't help either. We have some good young players at positions 2-4 who showed some great promise in their first year as Hawks. Give them a chance to build on that by drafting a floor general who can maximize their respective potentials.

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The Pistons are an exception to a lot of rules. Every team other than the Pistons that has won championships for the last 20 or so years has done it by building around a superstar like Shaq, Duncan, MJ, Magic, Bird, Thomas, etc. Most of those teams drafted their superstars (LA with Kobe - Shaq was the rare FA, SA with Duncan, Chicago with MJ & even though not technically drafted by Chi Pippen, Bos with Bird, McHale & Parrish, Det with Thomas, Dumars, Lambier, etc.). The one team put together by trades and pieces that just fit perfectly was the Pistons:

Billups #3 pick but bounced around several teams

Hamilton also lotto pick but acquired by trade from Washington

B. Wallace unwanted player initially who was acquired by trade from Orl and then blossomed

R. Wallace #4 pick who traveled through several teams (Was, Port, Atl) before ending up with the Pistons

Prince - homegrown

There have been lots of teams built like the Pistons that were just good teams (like the Hawks teams of the post-Nique era). I would rather land a true superstar and build than rely on piecing together the right mix of good players.

[Diesel]

Well Said!

[Diesel]

Bottom line AHF...

People try to pinpoint what it is about these championship teams that make them champions and they point to one guy...

Well, the honest truth about it was it was more than one guy in every case... It was not the superstar... It was the TEAM..

If we're going to win anything, then we have to put the best TEAM on the floor...

We can take Marvin Williams this year..

But I assure you that the argument to take Williams this year will be just as strong next year when we might have a shot at Rudy Gay. At some point, we have to stop duplicating positions and we have to start drafting for NEED so that we can build that team..

I think Deron and Paul are the Strongest PGs to come out in several years. I really don't see many PGs coming behind them that will be as strong. Williams MAY be Good. However, it doesn't mean that he's what we need.

In choosing between a Good Sf and a Good PG... We need a Good PG.

IF you argue that Williams is "GREAT" and that Paul or Deron is "Weak" then your argument is lost already. We already know more about Deron and Paul than we do about Williams. IN fact, Williams could turn out to be Good or he could be the next Tim Thomas! That's about as much as we know about him. So let's not get into the hype!