Expectation of MWill career....

[Diesel]

I am surprised that you were able to make yourself commit to that thought there...

How's being noncommital working for you?

[Dejay]

I couldn't agree more, Wretch. Exactly how many more drafts do we have to wait on a guy to make a serious impact? I mean, how can a pro sports franchise in this country go 22 years (and counting) between drafting All-Stars and expect folks like us not to call them out for it? How can you go 22 years and draft only ONE GUY (JT) with a career scoring average in double figures? That's INSANE, folks. And we all have heard the excuses before....(roll call)...

'We don't draft high enough to get those type of impact players'

'We drafted (insert bad pick here) based on the best player available'

'We needed a big man because we only have one guy above 6'9" on the roster (used to justify Adam Keefe donning Hawk gear)'

And now that they are picking in the lottery every year, it can be said that they have YET to get it right. There are second-rounders that this franchise has overlooked who have been to All-Star games and/or have been impactful for their teams (see Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker, Jamaal Tinsley, et al).

While I don't know everyone on this board, we all have been Hawk fans for a very long time. For all of our loyalty, when is the payoff going to come? I've heard about being patient and waiting on the potential to come through, but when will enough be enough?

[Dejay]

They did have a higher pick than #2 back in 1975 when they drafted David Thompson with the #1 pick and and Marvin Webster with the #3 pick. Unfortunately, they both ditched town for the ABA's Denver Nuggets and never played a second in Hawk gear.

Koncak was taken 5th in the 1985 draft, ahead of (roll call), Joe Dumars, Detlef Schrempf, A.C. Green, Terry Porter, Chris Mullin, and that Malone guy (I heard he became some power forward in Utah somewhere).

I do agree with Wretch and several others who expect more from a #2 pick. If they took a guy one year removed from HS coming off a 50-32 campaign with the #2 pick (obtained via trade ala 1989 Bulls), of course you would expect them to bring him along slowly because they are in position to win/contend right away. However, if the team is coming off a 13-69 campaign and hasn't made the playoffs in SEVEN YEARS, I expect him to instantly make a splash or two or twelve in his rookie year. I don't care if there are twenty Adam Keefes and Ennis Whatleys picked behind him. My expectations would be HIGH.

[CBAreject]

Diesel usually knows what he wants to say, but he doesn't say it that well. As such, his questions often cannot be answered logically.

You are correct. What he means is, "What are your demands of Marvin?"....or, "What must Marvin do to justify his being picked 2nd?"....or, "With which of these scenarios will you be satisfied [for Marvin]?"

What you end up doing is guessing at the question he was attempting to ask and then answering your guess. If you were wrong with your guess, your answer makes little sense to him. In that case, he might even argue with a quite sensical answer you gave to a different question than the one he meant to ask.

[Buzzard]

Sorry, I could not resist....

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If it were my choice, we'd have Deron Williams..

AND if we had him... I would still have expectations...

I wouldn't hide behind Potential that he may turn out or not...

That's BS.

Because he's the #2 pick OVER Freakin ALL, there MUST be some expectations.

Because we have traded away: Reef, Theo, Toine, Big Dog, Sura, Pryz, Nazr, JT, and others to get to this point...

There must be some expectations..

Actually, I don't expect us to be back in the top 3 next year...

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[KB21]

Basically, that's the approach that says "potential be damned, we need an immediate impact." That's the quickest way to derail a rebuilding process.

Atlanta didn't need immediate impact. They needed a guy who has the potential to be a legitimate superstar in the NBA. There is no scout or executive in the league that will tell you that Marvin doesn't have the ability to be a true superstar in the NBA. I even saw in ESPN the Mag recently where someone stated that while Marvin has struggled some during his rookie season, he's only 19 years old. This guy said in three years, he will be a top 10 player in the NBA, period.

I honestly believe that some of you would have passed on Kevin Garnett back in 1995 to take a guy that would make more of an immediate impact.

[SmooveTheFuture]

If Marvin becomes a top 15 or even top 30 player in this league I will give you 500 dollars. This kid shows nothing that shows he will be a superstar player I have not once this year seen him play and say wow this guy is gonna be great.

[Popeye]

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If Marvin becomes a top 15 or even top 30 player in this league I will give you 500 dollars. This kid shows nothing that shows he will be a superstar player I have not once this year seen him play and say wow this guy is gonna be great.

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Really?? That's interesting!! WtF have you been watching than the guy plays only 23min per game.

[Lascar78]

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Diesel usually knows what he wants to say, but he doesn't say it that well. As such, his questions often cannot be answered logically.

You are correct. What he means is, "What are your demands of Marvin?"....or, "What must Marvin do to justify his being picked 2nd?"....or, "With which of these scenarios will you be satisfied [for Marvin]?"

What you end up doing is guessing at the question he was attempting to ask and then answering your guess. If you were wrong with your guess, your answer makes little sense to him. In that case, he might even argue with a quite sensical answer you gave to a different question than the one he meant to ask.

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yeah exactly. I didn't want to get back into it because this thread is 6 months old and I think most understand where I was coming from. It's not my problem if he doesn't acknowledge that expectation can have multiple meanings, and he wouldn't indicate which one he's asking about.

However, I found something else I was right about:

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the intent is obviously to have something to use to belittle a hawks' player down the line, to say he didn't live up to expectations.

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[Diesel]

It's still being very non-commital. The intent was to have a standard for our highest kept pick in the history of the franchise. It would have been the same had we picked Paul or Deron... We have to have standards...

Otherwise, we can listen to the GM come in and say.. well I have brought in all "quality" players therefore I have done a good job!

Standards are a part of life.

The fact that you fail to commit to one expectation of Marvin regaurdless of how simple it might be is a contradiction of what you said before the draft when you said that Marvin is the player you want after Bogut because Marvin is going to be a star. Well, what do you expect from a star Lascar... That's all I was asking. What are we going to get from Marvin?

Right now, it seems that there's more interest in getting another star type player in this draft and letting Marvin just be around..

Such as waste for the highest pick obtained in the History of the franchise.

[Diesel]

Between You (Lascar) and KB21... KB might be off his rocker when it comes to Marvin but at least he's willing to give an expectation. He said that he expects Marvin to be 2nd or 1st option by next year.

Now, I don't agree with him.. However, I respect what he has said because he's standing by his original commentation on Marvin.

You however said that Marvin will be a star and when pressed for what to expect, you run and hide behind the question and the manner in which the question is asked. YOU know what I mean.

[Lascar78]

I don't know how I could possibly have been more clear in my expectations of Marvin than the following:

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-I think he will be a 5+ time all-star, and I hope he's a franchise carrying stud who will lead us for years. But I'm a realist, and I know that there's a significant chance that he will only be very good, a slightly better Desmond Mason maybe.

-I also think Marvin will be a consistent all star (5+ times) even though it might take him a while to grow into that player. I think there is a decent chance (30%?) that he could become a true superstar, and by that I mean a Duncan-Shaq-KG level player, not just a star like TMac, Dirk etc... But you have to factor in that while his shooting touch and his mindset are developped and polished, his overall game is still relatively raw. He doesn't have go to moves off the dribble or in the paint. Whenever you grab a player largely on potential, there is a bust risk. And there is a chance that he turns into Desmond Mason, a decent player who will never carry a team anywhere.

-

If you're asking what I expect out of Marvin for me not to be disappointed in our pick, that would be multiple all-star appearances. If you're asking how good I expect Marvin to be at the very least, I'd say Desmond Mason with a better touch

-I'd say the following is how I see the odds of Marvin's career:

30%

True, true Superstar, puts the franchise on his shoulders and makes us contenders

40%

5+ time all-star, 1st option, but not a true superstar

25%

Desmond Mason with a better jumper. 1 time all-star or so. Solid player, but no real star.

5%

True Bust. Longtime backup in the league, fails to step up to the challenge of heavy minutes. Has a nice jumper but fails to develop go-to moves

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I made my position perfectly clear. I don't pretend to be miss cleo.

I clearly stated that I would be disappointed if he wasn't a multiple all-star. I clearly stated that I expected him to at least be Dez Mason with a jumper.

In closing your honor, I would like to present my earlier quote:

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Making specific predictions doesn't make you smarter even if they do come true, it only shows that you're willing to make up things about what you don't know.

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[Diesel]

So Marvin at the least should be as good as Dez Mason..

For those who don't know...

Desmond Mason was picked 17th in the 2000 draft. That's the draft where we selected Demarr Johnson with the 6th pick. It was a weak draft.

Desmond Mason this year averages 10.9 ppg, 4.3 rpg, shooting 40%.

last year Desmond Mason avaraged: 17.2 ppg, 3.9 rpg, shooting 44.3 %.

This is Lascar's image of where he wants Marvin to be... Our #2 pick overall.

[Lascar78]

Before I was a coward and now I have a backbone, even though all I did was repost what I typed months ago in this thread?

I have plenty to say but why bother

And you wonder why I said you were childish

[Lascar78]

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I clearly stated that I would be disappointed if he wasn't a multiple all-star.

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[Lascar78]

Quote:

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I think he will be a 5+ time all-star

, and I hope he's a franchise carrying stud who will lead us for years. But I'm a realist, and I know that there's a significant chance that he will only be very good, a slightly better Desmond Mason maybe.

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[Diesel]

Childish..

I'm just trying to end this so that you have a little bit of dignity.

Personally, I think you are a fool for believing that a #2 pick should be as good as a journeyman in the league...

My god man.. what kind of BS is that??

I mean, I was willing to let you slide.. But notice, you through out the first insult mister Smug and Mighty.. Now.

You were crazy to think that our #2 pick overall should be as good as a Journeyman in the league who doesn't even average 4 rebs.

In other words, you're saying that your hopes for Marvin is that he is LESS than what we're getting right now from Al...

Now, that's a joke...

[exodus]

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I think he will be a 5+ time all-star , and I hope he's a franchise carrying stud who will lead us for years.

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Stop being so vague. Show some backbone.

[Nicholasp27]

u are either really dumb or u are arguing just to argue

lascar said that he expects marvin to be a 5+ time allstar and even gives him a 30% chance at being on duncan/kg level

he said that he is a realist, so he has to give 25% chance of him being dez mason with a better jumper

where in there is he saying that our #2 pick should be as good as a journeyman (mason)? he's saying that most likely (70% of the time), he'll be much better than dez, 25% he'll be slightly better than dez and 5% he'll be a bust

i do believe that him giving more odds of marvin becoming kg than becoming dez (30 vs 25) means that he isn't expecting our #2 pick to become the next mason or less than what al gives

[Diesel]

Immediately, after Lascar said he expects a 5+ time allstar..

He said

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But I'm a realist, and I know that there's a significant chance that he will only be very good, a slightly better Desmond Mason maybe.

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So what am I to believe the first thing he says or the second thing which seems to negate the first thing.

The problem with your Nick.. Is you only see what you want to see. I guess you only read what you want to read. Chillz called Lascar out about that very answer... He called it Flacid. Becuase what Lascar is doing is covering all basis and not giving an answer. Even today. First he repeats that he expects Marvin to be Desmond Mason.. Then when I quoted him on that, he again quoted that he expects Marvin to be a 5+ time allstar. Come on, give a concrete answer...

Or maybe You, Ex, and Lascar can be a new boy band.. Sweat off BK's balls is a good name.. because you guys are on for the ride with no expectation and only Nut hairs in your way blinding you from the truth.