bballfan Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 IMO He is dead on that we should not be doing this deal. 2 Draft picks for Joe Johnson really is a lot to ask this team to give up. Say Joe Johnson doesn't help us, we have given two draft picks away where we could have gotten some decent players to build around. I don't get how an arbitrator can tell and owner he can't do what is written in the contract. The best interest of the team is not to hope a free agent or two decides to sign onto this team. My opinion is based solely on the best interest of the team. This could come back and bite us in the butt. No one thought Dwayne Wade would ever be as good as he was and he was the 3rd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholasp27 Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 wb we already predicted u'd be in favor of belkin we discussed this on another thread belkin is gone, toine is gone...don't let the door hit u on the way out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholasp27 Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 to actually respond to ur argument: if it's a top 3 pick, then we keep it anyway and if we are still in the lotto in 2 years with jj/salim/chill/smoove/marvin/zaza/al then we are in BIGGER trouble than this deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Explain to me how a team that hasn't had a decent FA in 10 years and has 25 million in cap space can afford to keep going without getting any FA's year after year. Hello! This is the team that hasn't been able to draw FA's in years. People talk about how the Hawks can't draw FA's and when they have a chance to get one people say they are giving up too much. The Hawks aren't going to get a FA without giving up more than other teams might have to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdawg Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJYD Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Yes, you are the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyman3 Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 "we have given two draft picks away where we could have gotten some decent players to build around." - like who? Would u rather want 2 Raja Bells, and 2 Dion Glovers? or have 1 JOE JOHNSON? we're not in a position to be picky- as of this minute, right now... we may be the WORST FRANCHISE in the nba. we have to OVERPAY in order to get free agents, and even then- we may not be able to obtain these players. yet theres 1 player, whos an important player as a starter from the best team in the WESTERN CONFERENCE (regular season)- who wants to play for the hawks. given same contract, he PREFERS to play for the hawks over the suns. players who have this mentality are usually low-profile players... backups who want more minutes as starters. but this guy is a LEGIT STARTER in the league. how can u refuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDCLARKJR Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Indeed you are the only one....... (shhhh......don't say that too loudly either....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 13, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Unfortunately TIP... You are. Now, Let's talk about why nobody else is on the Darkside. First. 1 pick is the Boston/LAL pick. That pick will be a pick that is the pick of whoever does the best between Boston and LAL and next year it's protected top 10. My guess is that it will be between 20-24. With Phil Jackson coming back to the Lakers and the Lakers possibly being healthier and new additions, I can't see them not making the playoffs. Boston has the chance to really suck, but if they do, they will keep their pick. 2nd. Our own pick. Our pick would be top 10 protected this year and the year after (2007) top 3 protected... Let's say we suck in 2006 and 2007 and let's call it worst case scenerio 2007, we get the 4th pick overall. What it means is that Phoenix has our LAL pick in 2006 which will probably be 21 and they get our pick 2007 which we call 4th... Along the way, we have gotten a pick in 2006 that was top 10 (our own). If we can't start the winning process with: Josh Childress, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Al, whoever we pick in 2006 top 10, and JJ then our whole front office needs to be fired for making bad picks and we need to trade off some of these guys for either talent or picks. BUT... I don't think those 2 picks and the rugged defender are enough to make us say... our franchise is in peril. Let's look at the 2nd worst case.. We give up 2 pick in 2006. If we give up 2 picks in 2006, that would mean that JJ's addition has made us better than a Lottery team. While we may miss the pick, that's a place to celebrate because it's likely that we are out of the lottery and in the playoffs. It also would put us in good standing with FAs who would like to play for a winner. I can already see us making a move for 1 big FA like NENE... So our 2nd worse case scenerio still has a very positive feel. Now, we can talk about the worst and the baddest... But the truth of the matter is YOU Yourself have argued the fact that nobody wants to come to Atlanta... So us catching one of the best shooters in the game and a good scorer and a guy who wants to be here... is a feather in our cap reguardless of the amount of potential we give up. Lastly... Let us also not forget we have guys on the way like Cenk and Andersen.... The point is that for every franchise, there must be a time when you move pass gathering up lottery picks and you make your stand with a free agent. This is our point. The Chicago's of the world are few and far... For us, this is like Orlando picking up Tmac or Sac-Town getting Webber. In order to get somewhere, you have to get some players who have More than potential! The thing about the Belkin argument is this... It's a lie. For the reasons I have stated. The picks are not really that valueable. Belkin is like a guy who walks around in the world and won't buy a car because of the price of Gas. He's like... Damn, Gas is 2.80 per gallon. I'm not going to buy that Car because it sucks up so much gas. However, the car he's driving is falling apart. He comes home and tells his wife, Honey, I have the money ready to buy the car, I just don't want to buy it because of the price of gas. The truth of the matter is that its not the price of gas... It's that you would rather stay in a cheap broken down car than to get something that's new and reliable. Maybe it's not the best example.. But Belkin is not interested in the Hawks nor in making the Hawks better. It's his same attitude that if allowed to win, will be a guy who will probably not resign our own stars when the time comes. He will always try to get by with the next "great" lottery pick. His actions show an unwillingness to go for the better player for the franchise AND a distrust of BK. Believe me, BK can replace (through trade) one if not both of the draft picks we give up... So the picks are not the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weez Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 while even reading that pick makes me quesy (about losing picks in two consecutive years, yes, I know one of them won't be our own)...it makes me wonder (even after having read Diesel and others' posts on how picks aren't really worth crap). THEN, I think about, of yeah, we're probably going to trade Harrington by the deadline, and...I go out on a limb saying that Harrington will be traded and in that deal, we 'reclaim' one of those lost picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbaman Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are..Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are..Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are..Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are..Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are..Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are..Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are..Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are..Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Yes, You are.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggp Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 The majority rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurlman Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Quote: IMO He is dead on that we should not be doing this deal. 2 Draft picks for Joe Johnson really is a lot to ask this team to give up. Say Joe Johnson doesn't help us, we have given two draft picks away where we could have gotten some decent players to build around. Because of the way the draft picks are structured and protected, I think this is a good deal. Unless you understand the protections on the draft picks, you might feel this way. If we suck badly enough to be in position to get the next Dwyane Wade, we'll still own the picks. Quote: The best interest of the team is not to hope a free agent or two decides to sign onto this team. Quote: My opinion is based solely on the best interest of the team. This could come back and bite us in the butt. No one thought Dwayne Wade would ever be as good as he was and he was the 3rd pick. We have drafted several good players to build around. Now is the time to bring in a few lateral hires to shore up the need areas. Mark Bradley called Knight a "clever GM" in his column today - because all the casual observer sees is 13 wins, I think most people are missing that. He's done a hell of a job tearing down an ugly 1962 ranch house and you can see the beautiful neo-gothic manse taking shape. I don't know if Curry is the last piece because, frankly, I haven't paid close enough attention through the last two years. But they're surely going to need another big, and I would think it should be a defense-minded type, e.g., Tyson Chandler. Although it would take some time to jell, after getting another big man, couldn't a team with JJ/SS/Lue/JC/JS/MW/AH/ZP, plus scrubs RI/Donta/Collier contend for the playoffs? Seems like a lot of talent for a 30-win club, which is what most are predicting. I would think that'd be a .500 club in the first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted August 13, 2005 Moderators Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Yes you are. I want more protection on the Atlanta pick in this deal but do not believe that justifies him defying the majority vote of ownership or embarassing the franchise and specifically Billy Knight and Hawks' basketball management to protect against the risks of this trade. Far more damage has been done by Belkin's actions than is justified by the risks inherent in this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimrod Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Yes you are I know I just got here but come on you gotta see that this (DEVIL) has made a mess of what should have a great signing for the Hawks. And this Bone Head has let his ego drive this, and he will continual royal pain for the other owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 There are two questions about this deal. 1) Can JJ play the point primarily and run an offense effectively? If that is found to be yes, then the reported cost for getting him isn't important. 2) If JJ can't or doesn't play the point primarily or run the offense effectively, leaving the franchise with a hole at Pg, was the cost in salary and draft picks, especially the only top-3 protected pick in 2007 too much? That depends upon variables we can't predict. Do we end up losing a lottery pick in 2007? How strong is the 2007 draft? Is Chill (or others) left out in the cold to make room for JJ as a Sg/Sf? There are other important points. While I don't want to lose out on the development of Chill, even if JJ doesn't make for a full-time point, he has value at Sg. Also, he wants to be here. Also, other FAs might want to join him, ends the FA drought here, etc. Alot of the FA goodwill that could have come of this might have been lost with the turmoil. We'll see. On the other side...JJ's best year was along-side Nash. Will he EVER shoot near 45% from behind the arc again? My take? It's a deal you can live with but it's BK's deal. BK lives or dies with its degree of success. However, truth is he won't die as a result of it. Even if all things go wrong and we cough up a 3-10 pick, a mid-1st, and Diaw for what amounts to overpaying for yet another swingman, remaining ownership can't replace him based upon the outcome of this deal. They have tied up too much of their own capitol in its outcome. The deal was as much a must given Belkin's actions as is a good outcome or at least the appearance of one for remaining owners and management. Most important last point, we were a franchise that had to take a risk somewhere, this risk is as good as any other. Let's gamble. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjohns3 Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Even if Joe Johnson doesn't help us. we get our draft picks back. The only way we lose those picks will be if we make the playoffs, and since no one sees that happening this year, we will probably end up getting at least one of those picks back. But you gotta get over it, we arent a winner yet, we will have to overpay to get more talent to come to Atlanta for a while. ~Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 13, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Definite value. However, we have never drafted anyone with the skillset of JJ. I mean, a 6'8 230 lb ball handling SG with true outside range. If JJ can play PG, then he becomes the most valuable player this franchise has gotten since Nique. Everytime we go to the draft, it's a crapshoot. Here, we have something close to a sure thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeans Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Think about it. The Clippers just gave up Jaric and a 1st rounder for a Washed up Sam Cassel!! Giving up 2 lottery protected 1st rounders that we will not need anyway is not too much. We need to start looking at adding young veterans at this point of the rebuilding stage anyway. At first when I looked at the proposal, my first reaction was wow that is a lot, but based on our teams rebuilding situation and the fact that teams have to give a lot for RESTRICTED free agents, it is not a lot. Denver gave up 3 1st rounders for Kenyon Martin. Basically in comparison this is about the right deal in terms of what we are giving up for a young player hitting his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member mrhonline Posted August 13, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Quote: Think about it. The Clippers just gave up Jaric and a 1st rounder for a Washed up Sam Cassel!! No, Minnesota gave up the pick. But your point is still valid. If Jaric is worth one pick + Cassell, is JJ worth 2 picks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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