New NBA DRESS CODE!

[Diesel]

As a fan, I would like to see players in suits without the chains and tees and hats..

However, I realize that it's targeted at the hip=hop community.

Is it racism. NO.

Is it motivated by something.. Yes. Money.

David Stern has his knee jerk reaction to the fight last season.

He's trying to take the "thug" out of NBA. Because the money that the NBA makes doesn't come from the fans who spend $20 on a ticket, but it comes from a sponser who spends 200,000 for TV time during the games.

Some of those sponsors were scared off by players going into the stands to hit fans, then a few days later have those same players caught on tape, giving interviews in their thug atire.

The most interesting thing is the reaction from Tim Duncan. OF all the people who would object, I never thought TD would be one!!

Interestingly, I hate dress codes. I think it takes away from ability. People are judged on how they dress rather than what they can do. However, I understand that you can't allow people to work for you and dress any way.. so there must be something... Maybe they should have a casual Fridays in the league.

[KB21]

This isn't a knee jerk reaction to anything. Stern is simply making a league rule out of something many teams already had as a rule. Read Terrance Moore's article in the AJC. For once, he isn't throwing the race card out on this, and he praises Billy Knight for already having this rule in place with the Hawks.

I've got no problem with dress codes. I have to wear a shirt and tie to class because I'm in a professional school. If I were to walk into an exam room and a doctor walks in wearing a doo rag, basketball jersey, shorts that go all the way to his ankles, a big chain hanging outside his clothes, and sunglass, then I'm walking out of the exam room never to return.

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

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This isn't a knee jerk reaction to anything. Stern is simply making a league rule out of something many teams already had as a rule. Read Terrance Moore's article in the AJC. For once, he isn't throwing the race card out on this, and he praises Billy Knight for already having this rule in place with the Hawks.

I've got no problem with dress codes. I have to wear a shirt and tie to class because I'm in a professional school. If I were to walk into an exam room and a doctor walks in wearing a doo rag, basketball jersey, shorts that go all the way to his ankles, a big chain hanging outside his clothes, and sunglass, then I'm walking out of the exam room never to return.

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Sounds like prejudice really.

I used to complain about the way players dress also. But

really, I'm not so sure it's right. I mean, I don't like

suits and ties either. Just not who I am.

[cyman3]

just to let u guys know... heres some reactions from players

A)TIM DUNCAN - hates it

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5009466?GT1=7127

watch how hes dressed. also notice his long fingernails (*separate from this discussion- but in all pictures, i cant help but notice... he needs some NAIL CLIPPERS!!!)

B)CHARLES BARKLEY - supports it

he mentioned how if he had to hire 1 person...

*a white kid who had on a suit

vs

*a black kid who wore a do-rag w/ a throwback jersey

- he'd EASILY pick the white kid.

C)STEPHEN JACKSON - thinks theres some racial ideas behind this.

[Diesel]

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This isn't a knee jerk reaction to anything. Stern is simply making a league rule out of something many teams already had as a rule.

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2 questions:

Question: IF there had been no fight last yr that caught the whole world's attention, do you think that this policy would have even come up?

2. Why does Stern have to make it league wide... Why not just persaude all the teams to adopt a dress code of their own?

The answer is simple. Stern needed 100% compliance. He needed this to be public so that he can go back to those Sponsors and say: " we're cleaning up Basketball". Think about it, there was more news on the dress code than the death of Jason Collier. That's huge. The last NBA player to die was Bobby Phils. Death in the NBA is not a normal occurance. We all heard when Cory Stringer died, when Len Bias died, however when Jason Collier died, if you wasn't a Hawks fan or in Atlanta or passing by the Hawks.com website, you didn't know. However, everybody is talking about the dress code. This is what Stern wants out there and he didn't make it part of the CBA, he didn't leave it up to the team, HE released it just in time for it to make News to send a message to those sponsors. It's about the Benjamins.

[Diesel]

Quote:

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I've got no problem with dress codes. I have to wear a shirt and tie to class because I'm in a professional school.

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That's because you're a conformist. You buckle down to anything you are told to do that you believe will make you successful. You never ask questions, you just follow the same pattern that others have followed. And then you give your reason why you fall in line so easily... "because I'm in a professional school". Tell me KB, does what you where effect your knowledge at all? I would be led to believe that what you where is merely one person's preference being forced on all who would conform to it! What if it became the "norm" that all doctors where an Orange Blazer with a blue shirt? I guess you'd be going to Mr. H. to get you a Orange Blazer and a blue shirt?

Strangely enough, the greatest inventions and the truly successful are never those who conform. They are those who asks questions, seek new ways of doing things even if those new ways go against the norm! In short, the pattern of anything is never changed by someone who falls in line like a lemming.

This also explains why you think that it's silly for the dress code to be opposed. I said it before, the dress code is really an attack on "hip-hop". One of Hip-hop's main theme is non-conformity. Strangely, enough, hiphop even fails at doing what it says. My problem with Stern is that he uses Hip hop... even has 2 owners who are hip hop artist... but then attacks hip hop at the same time.

That's like if Stern was to say to protor and gamble, I want you to be part of us, here you can advertise with us, here you can buy shares in the NBA. and After proctor and gamble does all that, Stern turn around and say to the players... "Don't you dare use any proctor and gamble products for as long as you work in this nba"... That's my problem with Stern's dress code... You can't invite hip-hop in and then ban it...

[chillzatl]

people need to stop using this blanket term "suits". The players DO NOT HAVE TO WEAR SUITS. It's a misleading term that makes it sound so much more heavy-handed than it really is.

They are asked to wear "business casual" and no gaudy chains. Basically, they are asked to wear clothing on the same level they wear when they go to nice clubs. Which all of them, A.I, Stephen Jackson and even Tim Duncan, Do.

I think it just boils down to pampered athletes being told NO for the first times in their lives. They don't like it and they cry about it just like any of us would if, in our senior year of highschool, we were told we had to wear uniforms. After 3 years of wearing whatever we want.

The big difference is that they still get to wear what they want, it just has to fit some simple and reasonable guidelines.

[chillzatl]

personally I find that to be [censored] insulting. I wear nice business casual clothes whenever I can on the job because:

1. I know I look damned good in them

2. I know my clients think I look damned good in them and that not only am I damned good at what I do. But my image sends that message before I ever say a word.

3. People who see me out in public know I look damned good in them and without knowing who I am or what I do, they will assume that I must be good at it.

4. I like to look good because it's a reflection of my own self respect for my "professional" image and the image of the company I represent..

My company doesn't force me to dress that way. I do it because I like it and I am smart enough to know that my image is the very first impression anyone will have of me. I want it to be a good one. Because you never know when a seemingly insignificant first meeting will become a potentially redefining moment later in your life.

I don't do it because I'm a "conformist" or because I want to do whatever it takes to "fit in so I can succeed". You're just trying to bait an argument and I think it's a low blow, childish stunt by a guy who claims to be adult. If you are an adult, which I doubt more often than I believe, you should be ashamed of yourself. Nuff said..

secondly, you go way to far in trying to pin down what this is about. What it's about is simple. It's about cleaning up the image of the game, period. The NBA isn't distancing itself from hip-hop, as you will see in the coming season. But it's cleaning up the image of the game when its employees are "at work". Hip-hop will continue to play a large part in the NBA, from music to marketing. But it won't be sitting on the sideless sending a childish image to young fans.

Oddly enough, the two hip-hop owners you speak up, wear suits and nice clothes more often than they were junky throw-backs and guady chains. Is it because their conformist sell-outs? No, it's because they have self-respect for their image and they know just how powerful their images are and the effect it has on people everywhere, especially young black kids.

4-5 years from now, when all this p*ssy crying about it is long gone and forgotten. You'll have a 18 year old black kid who grew up with this rule in place. He'll get his first suit, which chances are will be an attempt to emulate one that he saw one of his basketball idols wearing on the sidelines. He'll go into an interview and when he walks in the door, he'll notice that the people in the room are staring at him. But instead of feeling like they're staring at him because he's a black kid with a big chain and a thuggish do-rag on his head. He'll realise that they're looking at him because his clothes look good and they say "look at me, I'm going to succeed and I want everyone to know it". It's possible it might be the first time in his life that he's ever felt anything like that. But once he gets a taste of that, I guarantee you he'll know the power of sending a good image.

Who knows, he may have had punk "friends" making comments about him like you just made. Calling him a conformist and a sell-out. But 10 years later, when they're still sitting on the front porch, making fun of a new generation that's trying to make their own way in life while they do nothing. He'll still be succeeding and he may well, unknowingly, have this rule to thank for it.

[pathway23]

Diesel I think your points are the most reasonable on this issue.

I think we are going to see some of the funkiest damn suits worn on the sidelines, like rainbow colors and crap, LOL! the players who object to this are going to rebel in some way. They might bring NAME RINGS back and we might see pink gators worn by a couple guys! this will be interesting to see

[mudderfudder77]

Quote:

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Think about it, there was more news on the dress code than the death of Jason Collier. That's huge. The last NBA player to die was Bobby Phils. Death in the NBA is not a normal occurance. We all heard when Cory Stringer died, when Len Bias died, however when Jason Collier died, if you wasn't a Hawks fan or in Atlanta or passing by the Hawks.com website, you didn't know.

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I hate to disagree with you Diesel, but Colliers death was front page Sports News, and was on the front page of the ESPN website. The reason it didn't garner as much attention as the other was because:

A. Len Bias died of a drug overdose - which is big time tabloid news

B. Hank Gathers died on the court

C. Korey Stringer died on the practice field and his death triggered a huge lawsuit and changed the way many teams practiced.

Jason died at home in his bed, as tragic as it was it was not tawdry like these other deaths - and was not "sexy" enough for national news media. Maybe thats fortunate for Jasons family that they didn't have to see it played out in the news every time they turned on their TV.

[Diesel]

My statement is not really an indictment on you, but on society... Even your very statements point to the fact. You said

"I am smart enough to know that my image is the very first impression anyone will have of me"

That's the problem. IMAGE. As a society we are taught to judge the book by it's cover. You miss out on a whole lot of good novels when you do that.

Am I blaming you. NO.

I'm just pointing out that you are smart enough to fall in line like everybody else.

I also said that true innovation normally comes from outside the norm... From somebody not wearing dockers and a polo shirt... That's conformity at it's highest level.

Neither am I saying that you have to go out and develop a weird look to be genius... because that's a form of conformity that you see everyday too.. Those Goth people who think that by being Goth, they have acheived something.

I am saying that the ones who will discover and innovate are the ones who look to get it done. The ones who don't have any pretenses are images to keep up. The ones who are transparent and learn for the sake of learning not for the sake of getting some sort of credit. Those guys and the guys that know how to con those guys (hello Steve Jobs & Bill Gates respectively) will be the captain of industry and innovation... Not guys who are looking to be led.

[Diesel]

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Oddly enough, the two hip-hop owners you speak up, wear suits and nice clothes more often than they were junky throw-backs and guady chains.

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While you were on your rant... Thought I would clear this up.

The two owners are Jay-Z and Nelly. While Jay-Z has adapted to the suits (actually trying to move more towards Center and he should being that he's a mogul)... Nellie is still wearing the chains and the throwbacks and the tees... When P-Diddy finally buys a share of the Knicks, then you will have 2 of the 3 hip hop owners in suits... but until then, I think you will see Nellie still wearing the warm-ups...

[Diesel]

I want to believe you and agree with you that these players easily conform to dress codes at clubs... But the truth of the matter is that they don't. I saw Iverson on punked and on a couple of other things going into a nice club and he didn't dress formally and he didn't put the chain away. I've seen others going to the VIP room with their throwbacks on and what not... I think it's just a case where they have so much money that they believe that they can dress however they feel.

[chillzatl]

well I don't know what clubs you're talking about. Some may be like that. Maybe he knows people in those clubs and they let it slide.

But the clubs i'm talking about here in atlanta have dress codes and those codes apply to everyone. THey don't let you in the door in athletic gear, doesn't matter who you are. I haven't personally seen Iverson in some of these. But I have seen some hiphop celebs in vision and they all dress as they're supposed to. They're not in suits. But they're dressed nice and not wearing throwbacks.

Chuck Smith said he's personally seen Iverson in some clubs and he dressed up, like everyone else.

[chillzatl]

image, and being conscious of yours is a matter of SELF RESPECT. You can call it falling in line of you want to. But I say that's simplistic, childish and lacking of self respect.

I speak from experience too. When I was young, I was the epitome of your example. I wore my black sabbath T-shirts, had long hair, listened to music that was NOT acceptable to most people. My motto was [censored] WHAT PEOPLE THINK OF ME. When I saw people dressing up I said the same [censored] you're saying "they are conforming, falling in line to fit someone elses ideal". That was until I grew up.

I made it into my early part of my career dressing nice and what I considered "cool". But it certainly wasn't professional. I wore what I wanted to wear and it certainly did not conform to anyones ideals. I was pretty darn successful for someone my age too. But that attitude was only going to take me so far and I eventually came to that realisation. So one day I went out and took the time to find nice clothes that looked more professional and were ones that I liked. Clothes that fit my style but were universally stylish. I experienced the same thing that I outlined in my "rant", as you put it. Peoples immediate perception of me changed. I didn't change one bit. But opportunities came my way by virtue of me looking more professional. It also didn't hurt that the number of ladies eager to enter one week relationships with me went up exponentially! :P

This is one of those subjects that has no end. If one person chooses to, they can find a way to call everyone a conformist. But what you would say is the system playing me. I say is me playing the system. By me "conforming" this one tiny bit, I am able to take and take and take from the system and it is none the wiser. I am who I am and wearing nice clothes for the sake of my professional career has no bearing on that. All it does is allow me to convince the system that I am who it wants me to be while I continue to be myself and take as much from it as I can.

Oh, and Dockers and a polo isn't comformity at the highest level. It's a convenient lack of style. It's what society has provided for those who need to look nice. But lack the style to create their own image. trust me when I say, I don't have that problem.

[Diesel]

So you mean if Nellie shows up at a club with Lebron James and they all have on throwbacks with Gold chains, they will be turned away??

I doubt it.

This is what I'm saying, no club is big enough that they can turn away the star power of a pro-athelete that is popular. They may have rules, but they will make exceptions (i'm sure)...

Sheeze, Alan Iverson can show up to one of the fancier clubs in Atlanta wearing a diaper and they will probably let him into the VIP...

[Diesel]

Again and keeping it short here...

Your image had nothing to do with your ability. You conformed so that society would take better note of your ability. I'm not saying that you were wrong for conforming, I'm saying that society is wrong for expecting you to conform before respecting your ability.

Lastly.

If Society says... Throwbacks and white tees are what Doctors should be wearing... In order to have society take better note of your ability, you will have your throw back and white tee on...

My point is that it's not your personal style ("I looked damn good") but it's what Society expects...

Believe me Chillz, I have been a conformist to a dress code for so long that I have learned that I'm more productive without the "suit". Yes, people respect the suit, but the suit does nothing to enhance my ability/talent. All the suit does is helps me to fit in... Which is why I hate dress codes... When you allow people who work for you to be a little more relaxed in how they dress, you find that it removes pretense and allows those who are creative to know that they are there to create not to look like the "typical" fill in the blank...

Would I want my doctor to wear a white tee and a throwback?

Hell, didn't you watch Doogie Houser? Every doctor doesn't have to be an old white man with hair growing out of his ears... When I'm sick or hurt, as long as my doctor is good, he can have on a diapers and flip flops (and I hate flip flops) just so long as at the end of the day what he tells me is right!

[Plainview1981]

Agree.

I usally dress in shorts and a short sleeve shirt no

matter what. I've even have women make the idotic comments

that I'd look better dressed up in a suit and tie. Yes,

they do fit me well, but I'm not comfortable in them.

A person should be comfortable. There are exceptions such

as you can't go nude for obvious reasons.

But it's about being comfortable. I mean, I don't wear

clothes out that have all holes in them or go without

taking showers and such.. But it seems that if you don't

wear a name brand shoes and dress fancy some seem to have

a problem with that.

[AHF]

I think everyone agrees that wearing nicer clothes won't change your inherent abilities and that you can miss out on some great people if you judge a book by its cover and look no deeper than the surface. However, marketing is all about image. It doesn't matter if you have the substance if you don't project the most profitable image. For Iverson as an individual, that means presenting a street image. For the NBA as a whole, that means projecting a more professional image. I suspect that if a large % of the league was wearing tye-died shirts and the league was having trouble with LSD they'd also institute a dress code to address that concern. The NBA wants no more Jailblazer, etc. situations from a PR perspective.

[Final_quest]

I will go on record as saying that the new dress code is about selling ads. Does anyone disagree with that?

I do think the NBA is trying to tone down the thug image, but I don't find that racist. If the thug image sold more ads for the NBA they would not implement this dress code.

Entertainers have always been forced to dress or look a certain way. Actors do promotions and are told exactly what to wear. "Rebelious" rock stars have to wear what the producers say on stage.

Any of the players can always leave the league if they want to, or create a new league that tries to make more money without a dress code. I don't think there is a racial agenda with the dress code. To me it's not anti-black so much as pro-money.