I caught the tail end of Bernie on 680thefan......

[Popeye]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

is that when we (all of us, EVERYONE) refers to Marvin and Smooth as our two best players, we are talking about two guys who have yet to break 10ppg individually in a season. It could be possible that one of them peaks at 15ppg while the other peaks at 23ppg. Basically we're counting chickens before they hatch. Pitting them against each other is a great way to 1. see who is better and 2. push them both a level that they might not reach otherwise.

There are far worse things to have in this league than a very very good bench player who puts up 15ppg (plus the extras). The only downside to that is if that player happens to be your chosen favorite. Otherwise, from a team fan perspective, it is a great great thing to have.

---

Exatcly, They didn't prove a single thing yet and we already have people on here saying that they will leave the Hawks if they don't start.

Come on now, that's bullshit.

---

Well if you think that they will want to stay on this team like I said when they both have the potential to be SUPER-stars you are insane. I just dont see it.

---

Do you understand that they are far away from superstar kind players???

---

Do you understand that what you say does'nt matter to me.

---

Than don't reply to me!

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...Yeah but the question is, What if one or the other is not willing to stay and come off the bench?

---

Other problem is - what if Josh Smith gets dissatisfied with having to play the 4 and decides the grass might be greener somewhere else in a couple years. Somewhere where they'll gladly let him play the 3.

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

---

and what you don't consider, as you usually do not, is that this is his first year getting the type of minutes that he got here. On a team with any sort of depth at the position, he wouldn't have gotten nearly that many minutes because he's not experienced enough for it yet. We had no choice and given that fact, he performed wonderfully. He will only get better.

---

I don't just assume players will get alot better just because they're young. Sorry, it doesn't always work out that way... There's Tim Thomas and the Kandi Man. Yes, in the few games I seen, I think one of the biggest things again ZaZa is that he had a rather unpolished looking game.

It's a small sample size... But that's what I saw. I think he'll improve some. But a 15/9 player? I doubt it. I think that's a sign of being a homer fan.

He put up DECENT numbers playing a team with lack of depth... It doesn't mean he'll improve enough to be a 15/9 player.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

this morning and he said we have a verbal agreement with "a legitimate starting big man". However he later said this big man would likely back up Zaza (though the hosts apparently know the identity of the big man and believe he may start ahead of Zaza). Bernie also said Anderson is not coming over after signing a big contract with his current Euro team. Lastly, Bernie said management is hoping Shelden starts at the 4 with Jsmoove and MW battling for the starting 3. I hope someone heard the beginning of the interview and maybe has some info on Harrington.

---

you left out the last thing Bernie said. the Hawks scored 97 ppg. they gave up 102. they led the league in pts allowed in the paint. they need more blocks. they need an inside presence.

this is what he said as he basically threw Al under the bus. hell, there was no basically to it. he called Al out by name and then said all that stuff.

i know it's obvious, but Al ain't coming back. LOL @ Bernie's dumb@ss for not learning his lesson. Al ran his mouth about the Hawks not wanting him back and what happened? lost leverage all the way around. come on Bernie you gotta be smarter than that! oh well he's one of the guys that got played by Belkin, what should we expect?

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

this morning and he said we have a verbal agreement with "a legitimate starting big man". However he later said this big man would likely back up Zaza (though the hosts apparently know the identity of the big man and believe he may start ahead of Zaza). Bernie also said Anderson is not coming over after signing a big contract with his current Euro team. Lastly, Bernie said management is hoping Shelden starts at the 4 with Jsmoove and MW battling for the starting 3. I hope someone heard the beginning of the interview and maybe has some info on Harrington.

---

i heard this with my own ears come out of Bernie's mouth. they want Sheldon to play the 4 which means either Smoove or Marvin will be riding the pine. they have no doubts that both players are 3s. it came out if his mouth. i'm not making this stuff up.

now answer this question. what in the world was Billy Knight thinking when he passed on three point guards picking Marvin if he and Smoove play the same position? please make some logic of this. also skip the BS about the owner not being the GM. please attempt to immediately move into something logical.

[HawksFan87]

Well there are plenty of teams who would love to have Marvin or Smoove as there starting SF when one of them leaes.

[mrhonline]

Quote:

---

also skip the BS about the owner not being the GM. please attempt to immediately move into something logical.

---

That is a perfectly logical explanation, as is the idea that the GM isn't the coach.

Look at the draft in question:

*Milwaukee drafts Bogut, has logjam at center by end of offseason.

*Charlotte already had a capable starting PG in Brevin Knight.

*Toronto had Chris Bosh already.

*New York has a logjam at PF/C, after trading for Curry and signing James.

*Golden State has drafted young big men for an eternity.

*Charlotte already had Emeka when drafting May.

I could go on, but it should be clear that GM's make decisions on draft night that might not meet their coach's immediate needs all the time. You are free to disagree with that direction, but to pretend that GM's don't have different jobs and expectations than owners and coaches do is silly.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

also skip the BS about the owner not being the GM. please attempt to immediately move into something logical.

---

That is a perfectly logical explanation, as is the idea that the GM isn't the coach.

Look at the draft in question:

*Milwaukee drafts Bogut, has logjam at center by end of offseason.

*Charlotte already had a capable starting PG in Brevin Knight.

*Toronto had Chris Bosh already.

*New York has a logjam at PF/C, after trading for Curry and signing James.

*Golden State has drafted young big men for an eternity.

*Charlotte already had Emeka when drafting May.

I could go on, but it should be clear that GM's make decisions on draft night that might not meet their coach's immediate needs all the time. You are free to disagree with that direction, but to pretend that GM's don't have different jobs and expectations than owners and coaches do is silly.

---

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

THOSE ARE ALL TERRIBLE TEAMS!!!!!!!!!!

[mrhonline]

Fine, let's look at the better teams in the draft and see what they did that year:

*Phoenix practically gave their pick away to New York.

*Denver trades their pick to Portland.

*Sacramento takes another wing.

*Houston takes a combo guard when their immediate need is for a wing to play next to McGrady.

*Detroit takes a big man, despite having the most frontcourt depth in the NBA.

*San Antonio drafts and stashes a European player.

*Miami takes an undersized PF despite having one already on

the roster.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Fine, let's look at the better teams in the draft and see what they did that year:

*Phoenix practically gave their pick away to New York.

*Denver trades their pick to Portland.

*Sacramento takes another wing.

*Houston takes a combo guard when their immediate need is for a wing to play next to McGrady.

*Detroit takes a big man, despite having the most frontcourt depth in the NBA.

*San Antonio drafts and stashes a European player.

*Miami takes an undersized PF despite having one already on

the roster.

---

man spend less time looking for stupid photos on the internet and use it to look for some logical explanations!

Going into the draft the following teams had

ATL: Al Harrington, Smoove, Chillz

PHX: Marion, Stoudemire, did they have Nash yet?

Den: Carmello, Miller

SAC: Webber, Peja, Bibby, Miller?

HOU: Yao, Mcgrady

DET: Wallace, Wallace, Prince, Billups, Hamilton

SA: Ginobili, Parker, Duncan

MIA: Wade, Shaq

i'm sure i'm leaving some great players off that list.

who the hell had the flexibility to either move out of the draft or take a chance on the BPA?

man your logic is about as stupid as Billy Knight himself at times.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

is that when we (all of us, EVERYONE) refers to Marvin and Smooth as our two best players, we are talking about two guys who have yet to break 10ppg individually in a season. It could be possible that one of them peaks at 15ppg while the other peaks at 23ppg. Basically we're counting chickens before they hatch. Pitting them against each other is a great way to 1. see who is better and 2. push them both a level that they might not reach otherwise.

There are far worse things to have in this league than a very very good bench player who puts up 15ppg (plus the extras). The only downside to that is if that player happens to be your chosen favorite. Otherwise, from a team fan perspective, it is a great great thing to have.

---

I hope you are right, but that is not the way I see it. (I don't think it matters for purposes of your post, but Josh Smith did average > 10 ppg last year). It was my opinion coming into last season that Josh Smith had the most potential of anyone on our roster. Given that we were drafting #2 in a reasonably strong draft, it is obvious to me that we should have counted Josh Smith as someone to build around. I have no problem if we think Josh and Marvin can work together, but I am not satisfied with a pick if we don't think that even with Josh Smith blossoming like he did the second half of last year that the two of them can work together in the starting lineup. I cannot accept the idea of using the #2 pick in THAT draft on someone who we are content to be a backup who chips in 10-15 ppg. Frankly, I don't think BK views Marvin in that light or that he is ruling out the use of both of them together. However, it is a waste of resources if the two guys who are objectively regarded as being the most talented (non-JJ) players on the roster can only start at the #3 position. Again, if we are playing "two forwards" and they can be Marvin and Smoove then go at it. If we are playing a 3 & a 4 and Marvin and Smoove are "3s" then one of them will end up leaving if they develop as we are hoping. You want to put your team in the best position to succeed and you do that by bringing players together who can play on the court together if everything works out. Drafting two guys like that to compete for the starter and backup positions is not drafting for optimal success, IMO.

It is like the idea of drafting Brandon Roy this year. If he is viewed as able to start with JJ, the pick makes sense. If he can only back up JJ or beat him out as the starter at the 2, then why bother?

[mrhonline]

Quote:

---

man spend less time looking for stupid photos on the internet and use it to look for some logical explanations!

---

Hey, I'll trade you my stupid picture for your knee-jerk, vacuous posts.

Quote:

---

who the hell had the flexibility to either move out of the draft or take a chance on the BPA?

---

Is that an argument or a question? What point are you trying to make?

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

---

What does Smoove have to do with this discussion, and Za-Za averaging .50 blocks is not exceptable. That's why we must have Marvin, Smoove and Sheldon on the floor at the same time.

---

You also ignore the fact that he avg a steal a game, which for a big man is fantastic.

[CBAreject]

Idiot...of course they are terrible teams. He was talking about the teams at the top of the lottery who had to decide on which franchise-type player to take. It's not like the Spurs have to choose between Marvin and Paul.

[DrReality]

Quote:

---

He is not a great defender but I think that we are exaggerating on how bad his defense is. The same with Salim's ball handling.

---

i agree. Defense is a team sport and he got a lot of his fouls when guys drove by Al or someone else. And he had no beef in there to help him. I don't think it is fair to give him a bad rap given all the other factors. If Woody can make them play a system of defense he can fit into that and do OK.

[exodus]

What I think (hope) will happen is that over time Smith becomes more comfortable at the 4 and beats out Shelden. I think Smith definitely has a lot of upside and I do believe that a Marvin-Smith forward combo could be very effective.

But this year i would say it is a safe bet that Shelden will be the starting 4. And after what Smith did last season I think he will start the season at the 3.

[DrReality]

Quote:

---

Zaza

PPG 11.7

RPG 7.9

APG 1.7

SPG 1.14

BPG .50

FG% .451

FT% .735

3P% .000

MPG 31.4

Bogut

PPG 9.4

RPG 7.0

APG 2.3

SPG .60

BPG .83

FG% .533

FT% .629

3P% .000

MPG 28.6

---

And Bogut always had another big there playing beside him. Someone to help with some muscle. Z never had that. He got the hell beat out of him many nights becuase of our lack of bigs. I will not pass judgement until I see him play along side someone who can hold their own in the 4 spot.

[Sothron]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

is that when we (all of us, EVERYONE) refers to Marvin and Smooth as our two best players, we are talking about two guys who have yet to break 10ppg individually in a season. It could be possible that one of them peaks at 15ppg while the other peaks at 23ppg. Basically we're counting chickens before they hatch. Pitting them against each other is a great way to 1. see who is better and 2. push them both a level that they might not reach otherwise.

There are far worse things to have in this league than a very very good bench player who puts up 15ppg (plus the extras). The only downside to that is if that player happens to be your chosen favorite. Otherwise, from a team fan perspective, it is a great great thing to have.

---

I hope you are right, but that is not the way I see it. (I don't think it matters for purposes of your post, but Josh Smith did average > 10 ppg last year). It was my opinion coming into last season that Josh Smith had the most potential of anyone on our roster. Given that we were drafting #2 in a reasonably strong draft, it is obvious to me that we should have counted Josh Smith as someone to build around. I have no problem if we think Josh and Marvin can work together, but I am not satisfied with a pick if we don't think that even with Josh Smith blossoming like he did the second half of last year that the two of them can work together in the starting lineup. I cannot accept the idea of using the #2 pick in THAT draft on someone who we are content to be a backup who chips in 10-15 ppg. Frankly, I don't think BK views Marvin in that light or that he is ruling out the use of both of them together. However, it is a waste of resources if the two guys who are objectively regarded as being the most talented (non-JJ) players on the roster can only start at the #3 position. Again, if we are playing "two forwards" and they can be Marvin and Smoove then go at it. If we are playing a 3 & a 4 and Marvin and Smoove are "3s" then one of them will end up leaving if they develop as we are hoping. You want to put your team in the best position to succeed and you do that by bringing players together who can play on the court together if everything works out. Drafting two guys like that to compete for the starter and backup positions is not drafting for optimal success, IMO.

It is like the idea of drafting Brandon Roy this year. If he is viewed as able to start with JJ, the pick makes sense. If he can only back up JJ or beat him out as the starter at the 2, then why bother?

---

That is exactly how I feel. You don't build a roster by stockpiling the same position. If they have no intentions of using Smoove as the starting PF then selecting Marvin was a gigantic blunder. We should have taken either Deron Williams or Chris Paul. It would allow us to start Smoove at 3, JJ at 2 and Williams/Paul at 1. Harrington could have been resigned or traded to still take Shellhead to play 4.

But now we have a roster with two building blocks at the same position, an injury riddled FA point guard, and force starting a player who got owned in Summer League at PF just to justify the pick. Insane. Just flat out 100% insane.

We need to either move Marvin or Smoove to upgrade at 1,4 or 5 or we're going to just sit back and watch one of them walk. Its the same scenario with Childress. Out of those 3 players only one gets to start. The other two WILL leave for other teams for more money and for a chance to start.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

we are talking about two guys who have yet to break 10ppg individually in a season. It could be possible that one of them peaks at 15ppg while the other peaks at 23ppg. Basically we're counting chickens before they hatch. Pitting them against each other is a great way to 1. see who is better and 2. push them both a level that they might not reach otherwise.

There are far worse things to have in this league than a very very good bench player who puts up 15ppg (plus the extras).

---

For example if that pick was a #2 pick. Seriously, bench play is important and all but we can and should trade one of Childress and MW. You know my reasons for MW. He's a Sf just like JS and management d@mn well knows it, Childress can more credibly BU the 2/3 where we need more help than the 3/4, and MW as a #2 pick is the most valuable, redundant asset we have.

Why be happy with TWO bench players at essentially the same position, when you can keep one (Chill) and trade the other for similar, starter-worthy talent at another position. It's never made sense to me.

Moreover, without a trade at least 1 if not 2 of our 3 young forwards (Chill, JS, and MW) will most definately bolt to play for another team!!! This is an absolute disasterous way to build a team. Spend high pick draft capitol, bench the majority of your youth behind other youth, loss draft capitol for less when they become RFAs and cost yourself your opportunity at rebuilding from scratch. Unforgivable.

W

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...Insane. Just flat out 100% insane...

---

LOL Sothron...reminds me of the final scene of the movie "Bridge over the river Kwai" when the army Doc looks out over the destroyed bridge and says: "Madness...Madness"