NBA players again prove that they suck.

[exodus]

Don't know about the clock but 101 pts is a lot. They shot 62% from the field which doesn't say much for the defense.

[chillzatl]

that's the nature of sports, and life in general. It's a simple fact that often seems beyond your comprehension. Sometimes, the best don't win. If the best on paper always won, why the [censored] would you bother to watch in the first place?

[Lascar78]

they had a stretch in the 3rd where they ran the high pick and roll what seemed to be about 20 times in a row and scored every time. We never recovered. Very weird especially when we started with Hinrich and Johnson playing shutdown D and we looked great. Then in the 4th when we started getting stops guys like Melo were jacking up 3s instead of getting high % shots.

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...Then in the 4th when we started getting stops guys like Melo were jacking up 3s instead of getting high % shots.

---

Yeah, looking back at the boxscore we obviously jacked too many threes (and made too few). Another interesting line in the boxscore is Howard's. He must have been pretty busy to go 4 for 6 and get 7 rebounds in just 13 minutes on the floor. He only had one PF - what the h#ll must have coach K been thinking to keep him on the pine all that time?

[Popeye]

Quote:

---

box score

Looks like Paul took the night off.

---

and Joe.

[Yeti]

Quote:

---

The basketball used in international competition is smaller than the one used in the NBA. That may be a reason for the US shooting problems from long range.

---

We need to quit looking for an excuse. They all used the same ball for all the games they played. Same for Dirk, Diaw, and Yao. - No excuses, we just got beat again.

We have great athletes who grow up trying to dunk and "be like Mike." But who is around to teach them the fundamentals and how to play team ball. If they are good - they ARE the team in high school. It's all done on pure athleticism. Then they play little or no college ball and go right to the NBA. The NBA is entertainment . . . just like professional wrestling. They learn how to be great individual players and thrill the crowds. But they don't play very good defense or learn the real fundamentals.

Maybe we need to move the entry age back to 22 so that they all have to play four years of college. Imagine how good Smoove would be if he'd played four years under a top coach. And maybe the Kwame's and Curry's would have a better chance to be successful.

Watching the NCAA Sweet 16 or Final Four is more fun than the NBA finals for some of us because it is real basketball. I'd like the NCAA champ to go to the Olympics, not a bunch of professional dunkers.

On a positive note, it looks like there are a lot of unsigned players out there that are just as good as our NBA all-stars. Maybe a team like Atlanta can take advantage of that and REALLY bring in some talent ... like that 6-7" Greek point guard. Also, isn't it nice to know that you don't need an all-Star team to beat a bunch of NBA stars, just solid team play and real defense. May we CAN win with the talent we have ... with some great coaching.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Then they play little or no college ball and go right to the NBA

---

And how much college ball do the top Euros play? Zaza turned pro at a younger age than Smith or Marvin.

However the Euros have all been playing the same size ball. If they played with NBA balls maybe they would have a problem adjusting if they could only practice with it for a month before the games started.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

People just don't realize how much different FIBA b-ball is to the USA/NBA style.

The same guys that are stars on the FIBA circut, tend to struggle when playing the man to man/star oriented basketball that the NBA promotes.

Guys like LeBron and Wade aren't good enough mid-range shooters to shoot people out of zone defenses. And the slashing style that they excel at, won't be as effective against the top teams in the world.

Wade especially looks great at times, but looked like a straight garbage player at times, when he started forcing things. He was trying to take zone defenses one on five, then wonder why he wasn't getting all the calls he was used to getting.

I watched the entire game this morning, and I think Coack K made 2 huge mistakes.

1) He went with Melo, Wade, and Lebron as a group way too much. While they may be your best players on the team, their flaws become exposed big time in international ball. Melo's game is perfect for international play, because he's comfortable with just catching and shooting from 18 feet and out. Wade and James aren't. Plus, the defense that Wade and James played on the pick and roll, was just flat out atrocious. When all 3 played on the floor together, Team USA was a less effective team.

2) D. Howard and Brand should've played a lot more. When they had that great start in the 1st half, they were the energy players on the floor that were getting it done. Howard especially was a beast on the boards. And when Team USA started having trouble stopping the pick and roll, they could've used either Brand or Howard as deterrents at the rim. Once the player rolled to the hole, no one was there to stop him.

The days of us just stepping out on the court and killing everybody because we're supposed to be more talented, are over.

You want to see the solution to the problems we have in international ball? Just look at what the women do.

The women have basically had the same core players on the national team for about 12 years now. And they have a big advantage over the NBA players in that the vast majority of the Women's national team actually play overseas during the winter and spring months. So they know the FIBA rules inside and out.

Maybe the US/NBA needs to start an international style basketball league, to give guys who aren't good enough to make NBA rosters, a chance to play international style ball. Then for those guys that want to be a part of Team USA, have them play in the FIBA style NBA league for a few weeks at a time, to get more acclimated to that style.

Think of it like the Busch series compared to the NEXTEL cup series, in NASCAR.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

People just don't realize how much different FIBA b-ball is to the USA/NBA style.

The same guys that are stars on the FIBA circut, tend to struggle when playing the man to man/star oriented basketball that the NBA promotes.

Guys like LeBron and Wade aren't good enough mid-range shooters to shoot people out of zone defenses. And the slashing style that they excel at, won't be as effective against the top teams in the world.

Wade especially looks great at times, but looked like a straight garbage player at times, when he started forcing things. He was trying to take zone defenses one on five, then wonder why he wasn't getting all the calls he was used to getting.

I watched the entire game this morning, and I think Coack K made 2 huge mistakes.

1) He went with Melo, Wade, and Lebron as a group way too much. While they may be your best players on the team, their flaws become exposed big time in international ball. Melo's game is perfect for international play, because he's comfortable with just catching and shooting from 18 feet and out. Wade and James aren't. Plus, the defense that Wade and James played on the pick and roll, was just flat out atrocious. When all 3 played on the floor together, Team USA was a less effective team.

2) D. Howard and Brand should've played a lot more. When they had that great start in the 1st half, they were the energy players on the floor that were getting it done. Howard especially was a beast on the boards. And when Team USA started having trouble stopping the pick and roll, they could've used either Brand or Howard as deterrents at the rim. Once the player rolled to the hole, no one was there to stop him.

The days of us just stepping out on the court and killing everybody because we're supposed to be more talented, are over.

You want to see the solution to the problems we have in international ball? Just look at what the women do.

The women have basically had the same core players on the national team for about 12 years now. And they have a big advantage over the NBA players in that the vast majority of the Women's national team actually play overseas during the winter and spring months. So they know the FIBA rules inside and out.

---

Very good post.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Wade especially looks great at times, but looked like a straight garbage player at times, when he started forcing things. He was trying to take zone defenses one on five,

then wonder why he wasn't getting all the calls he was used to getting.

---

This is a major issue. These guys are used to getting bailed out by NBA refs on crap moves where they dive into traffic.

Quote:

---

1) He went with Melo, Wade, and Lebron as a group way too much. While they may be your best players on the team, their flaws become exposed big time in international ball. Melo's game is perfect for international play, because he's comfortable with just catching and shooting from 18 feet and out. Wade and James aren't.

---

The funny thing is that during the season Melo's jumper was his weakness, so much so that Karl said he was becoming a 1 dimensional player.

Having those 3 playing at the same time goes against what this team was supposed to be about in the first place. This team was supposed to be a TEAM, not just a collection of stars. Having guys on the floor whose games don't complement each other doesn't work.

Quote:

---

2) D. Howard and Brand should've played a lot more. When they had that great start in the 1st half, they were the energy players on the floor that were getting it done. Howard especially was a beast on the boards. And when Team USA started having trouble stopping the pick and roll, they could've used either Brand or Howard as deterrents at the rim. Once the player rolled to the hole, no one was there to stop him.

---

Good points there.

What Stern really needs to do to help the USA in international competition is to get the refs to start calling the game straight instead of favoring the stars so heavily.

And why did JJ only get 3 shot attempts?

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

---

that's the nature of sports, and life in general. It's a simple fact that often seems beyond your comprehension. Sometimes, the best don't win. If the best on paper always won, why the [censored] would you bother to watch in the first place?

---

Copout. If these guys knew what they were doing they wouldn't have lost this one.

The NBA players in all likely hood believe they're the best... Moreover, they're arrogant just as LeBron James comment shows. And what happend? They got their @ss kicked. Maybe now they'll learn to play defense, and maybe he'll work on his other skills other than his bland dunks that he does every game.

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

---

People just don't realize how much different FIBA b-ball is to the USA/NBA style.

---

The 1992 and 1996 teams got it done even with these flimsy excuses. The problem is that the NBA players struggle to shoot in the NBA, and they struggle to score outside of dunking or layups in these games. This has nothing to do the FIBA style.

The NBA players struggle with ft shooting in the NBA and they struggled in this game. Again, what's the change? This isn't because of the FIBA style. It's because NBA players stink at FT shooting.

True, these teams have improved, but the quality of the NBA has got alot weaker. You can tell just by how unwatchable majority of the NBA games are. Teams go on zone defense and ugly down the game because the players can't shoot and struggle againest zone defenses.

The USA struggles in the FIBA with the samethings they struggle with in the NBA...

-Zone defenses

-Struggle on defense with players that can shoot

-Lack of PG's that can make others better

-Below average FT shooting.

-Lack of ability to make adjustments which can partly be blamed on the crappy coaching that goes on in the NBA.

-Lack of bigmen that are tough inside.

So while the FIBA teams have got better to clsoe the gap, I believe the decline in the NBA players have contributed just as much to the results we are growing more and more accustomed to seeing in this games.

[thescout5]

Watching the game last night showed that the United States still doesn't get in when putting an international team together.The announcers did make a point that it is hard to put a team together for 3 weeks and compete against the rest of the world.I think its been longer than 3 weeks they have played together but I can understand there point.Some how the US needs to get these guys to play together much longer than the given period,it would help. A few things that stuck out at me when watching the game.

1. The US team missed way way to many free throws.You can blame all the other variables for the loss but missing free throws time after time is inexcusable.

2. The US team played 1 on 5 alot of the game which gets back to a team concept.I did not see any passing to the open man,players were not moving around trying to get open.It seemed a player would get the ball and try to hit outside shots alot only to miss.

3.The lack of big men on the team. Howard was having a big game yet wasn't in there all the time.What was coach K thinking? Bosh frequently got burned.I would have sat him down the other teams player continously scored on him.

4.Lack of defense - what were these players doing in practice? What was coach k doing to get them ready?

5.Lack of an inside game.I know the other team played zone but the US team could have picked a few more big men.Jermaine O Neal?,Amare Stotelmyre had he been healthy would have made a difference but he is still recovering.The US squad needs more capable big men.Greg Oden anyone?

6.No point guard - paul didn't even look like he was on the court.The other team's point was frequently making plays,hitting shots. Would steve nash play for the US?

This team didn't look like one. I don't know what coach k or the players were doing in practice but this was a shocker.When the US was down by 12 points coach k had a glazed look like what do we do? The players had no clue how to come back.It starts with strong defense something this team doesn't have.

So besides getting these guys to play more what roster moves need to be made for the upcoming olympic trials where the US must do well to qualify thats my question to the board?

Here are a few players that I hope become part of the team

1.Greg Oden - yes he's in college but he reminds me of ewing defense first and can change the face of a game.Pair him with howard and the other teams are not going to know what hit them.

2.Steve Nash - would be the ulimate point guard but I don't think he is a US citizen,Canadian.Outside of nash who else is a top notch guard that can distribute the ball,play defense?

3.Kobe Bryant - I know lebron is a star but he disappeared in the Greece game.Kobe plays solid defense and can do everything.I am not saying replace lebron I am saying find a spot for kobe.

4.Michael Redd - can fill it up from outside what this team desperately needs deapite not being great defensively.

Who else should be added? The US needs to make some changes not only playing together longer but roster changes. How these guys can be proud of representing the US is beyond me.Carmelo was the only one that stood out.Perhaps the team has way to many players that are 6-6 to 6-8 and do the same things? I am getting sick of other countries beating our supposily Dream Team. I think coach k needs to show these guys film of the boston celtics with bird,lakers,pistons to show team ball. Accountability its all about! Coach K is also to blame this team could not defend pick play to save there lives.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hot . . you only halfway get it.

The 92 and 96 teams got it done because almot ALL OF THOSE PLAYERS were Hall of Fame players. And other than Laettner( on the 92 team ), none of those players were young.

And when we sent those players, the rest of the world were in awe of them. These were the guys that were the heroes of all of these players. Now they're playing against them.

As far as this team goes, you're right on a few things:

- the FT shooting did kill them, but not as much as their lack of defending the pick and roll. We missed 13 FTs . . Greece missed 10. Those guys that you say stink at FT shooting, all shoot over 80% in the NBA. Wade, LeBron, Melo, JJ, Hinrich, Paul, almost all of them are good FT shooters. But they didn't get it done this morning.

- You're right about the shooting. But it's because these guys fall in love with the 3 point shot and don't develop their mid-range games. A guy like Sam Cassell would've been perfect for the US team, because his entire game is the 15 - 22 foot jumpshot. LBJ and Wade's strength is taking it to the basket, a style that only works in INTL play if teams are playing you man to man. And you're not going to get the NBA type calls in INTL basketball.

And understand this about these FIBA teams. You have guys on there that have played for 5 - 10 years together. That makes a BIG DIFFERENCE, no matter what sport it is.

Let me ask you this. Does THIS TEAM lose in this tournament?

PG - Cassell ( the perfect guard for INTL play )

G - Kobe ( this team DESPERATELY needed his leadership and outside shooting )

F - Melo ( played great, most of the time )

F - Duncan ( an unselfish player that can also play D )

C - Shaq ( the stop gap in the middle that would be perfect in a zone defense )

Bench

G - Hinrich ( gotta love how he played in the tourney )

G - JJ ( not Redick, but Joe Johnson . . . he's probably the best all-around player on this squad with no glaring weaknesses. The probem on this squad, is that they didn't trust JJ. Guys like LeBron and Wade would rather play 1 on 5 than to pass to an open teammate. )

G - Michael Redd ( hired gun off the bench )

F - James ( who should be content with being a point forward on this squad )

F - Ben Wallace ( the energy guy that would dominante the boards and play the big people off the pick and roll very well )

F - Ron Artest ( the perfect defensive stopper for this team, that can also play offense and hit the outside shot )

C - D. Howard ( he's also a good energy guy on the interior )

That's the difference between us and them. They're still putting together the best squad possible that can win during INTL competition. We're still trying to cross promote the stars of the NBA and still hoping that their "greatness" can overcome any flaws during these competitions.

LeBron, Wade, and Melo had the mentality that . . "OK, we're losing, so I need to take over". When Melo did it, everything worked out. When Bron and Wade did it, things got worse, because they're not good outside shooters.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Or then again, just look at what George Mason did in the NCAA tourney last year.

On paper, that team shouldn't have made it out of the 2nd round. But their style of play, and the fact that about 6 of those guys were seniors and knew each other inside and out, enabled them to beat just about everybody, including the supposed #1 team in the land, UCONN . . who sent 5 players off of that squad to the NBA.

The GM big men could not only shoot, they could take people off the dribble. And their guards didn't get rattled when pressured. If everybody played within themselves, they were tough to beat.

Let you tell it @ Hot . . . no mid-major team should ever beat a major college in football or basketball. Sometimes, styles can overcome talent.

[rascurrein]

The times has changed. 20 years ago the USA team used to play with NCAA players and they only have to worry about the USSR, then becomes the time for the proffesional players and the Dream Team appears and dominate every competition with player like Jordan, Magic, Bird etc. But now the resto of the world has improved and the USA players are not as good as they use to be. Now in the NBA are shinning players from all over the world, Yao, Ginobili, etc.

For example, in my country the teams allways bring american players who used to make a difference playing against our nationals, and now every team here in Uruguay has problems to find american players who really can give to the teams the quality that they need. This is because we have improved and the american players hasn't. In Argentina and Brazil is happening the same thing.

To me in order of importance what happen is that:

1) the rest of the world play a lot better than they used to

2) the american players didn't improve as the rest did and they don't have the quality that the Dream Team had

3) the difference between NBA rules and FIBA rules.

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

---

Hot . . you only halfway get it.

The 92 and 96 teams got it done because almot ALL OF THOSE PLAYERS were Hall of Fame players. And other than Laettner and Shaq ( on the 92 team ), none of those players were young.

And when we sent those players, the rest of the world were in awe of them. These were the guys that were the heroes of all of these players. Now they're playing against them.

As far as this team goes, you're right on a few things:

- the FT shooting did kill them, but not as much as their lack of defending the pick and roll. We missed 13 FTs . . Greece missed 10. Those guys that you say stink at FT shooting, all shoot over 80% in the NBA. Wade, LeBron, Melo, JJ, Hinrich, Paul, almost all of them are good FT shooters. But they didn't get it done this morning.

- You're right about the shooting. But it's because these guys fall in love with the 3 point shot and don't develop their mid-range games. A guy like Sam Cassell would've been perfect for the US team, because his entire game is the 15 - 22 foot jumpshot. LBJ and Wade's strength is taking it to the basket, a style that only works in INTL play if teams are playing you man to man. And you're not going to get the NBA type calls in INTL basketball.

And understand this about these FIBA teams. You have guys on there that have played for 5 - 10 years together. That makes a BIG DIFFERENCE, no matter what sport it is.

Let me ask you this. Does THIS TEAM lose in this tournament?

PG - Cassell ( the perfect guard for INTL play )

G - Kobe ( this team DESPERATELY needed his leadership and outside shooting )

F - Melo ( played great, most of the time )

F - Duncan ( an unselfish player that can also play D )

C - Shaq ( the stop gap in the middle that would be perfect in a zone defense )

Bench

G - Hinrich ( gotta love how he played in the tourney )

G - JJ ( not Redick, but Joe Johnson . . . he's probably the best all-around player on this squad with no glaring weaknesses. The probem on this squad, is that they didn't trust JJ. Guys like LeBron and Wade would rather play 1 on 5 than to pass to an open teammate. )

G - Michael Redd ( hired gun off the bench )

F - James ( who should be content with being a point forward on this squad )

F - Ben Wallace ( the energy guy that would dominante the boards and play the big people off the pick and roll very well )

F - Ron Artest ( the perfect defensive stopper for this team, that can also play offense and hit the outside shot )

C - D. Howard ( he's also a good energy guy on the interior )

That's the difference between us and them. They're still putting together the best squad possible that can win during INTL competition. We're still trying to cross promote the stars of the NBA and still hoping that their "greatness" can overcome any flaws during these competitions.

LeBron, Wade, and Melo had the mentality that . . "OK, we're losing, so I need to take over". When Melo did it, everything worked out. When Bron and Wade did it, things got worse, because they're not good outside shooters.

---

Yes, they would.

Cassell is not the perfect guard for the INT game simply because he's the worst defender the NBA has to offer. That's right, I'm saying he's the worst defensive player the NBA has. That's only one flaw for a PG... But it's a very big one.

Kobe? At what time in his career has Kobe ever played a team game? I can't remember a time. He's never been a good 3pt shooter either. Around the 28%-35% mark. Average at best.

Melo? He can play good as feature guy, but what does he do other than score? He's an average rebounder, below average defensive player, and an average passer at best. His shooting is also suspect.

Tim Duncan? Well, from what I remember, he didn't fair to well last time he was in these games. Always in foul trouble. And he's just declined as a basketball player since that time.

Shaq? He's an awful pick n roll defensive player. Probably the worst in the league at it. That wouldn't help the defense.

Ben Wallace was ineffective againest the teams a few years ago and he's only got worse as a basketball player since that time.

Howard/Artest/Kirk/Redd could be there. I'd add Ray Allen and take off Joe Johnson.

It seems the problems more occured on defense than on offense.... Guys like Shaq isn't going to do anything againest the pick n roll.

What would my best team be?

PG:C.Billups/J.Kidd

SG:Ray Allen/R.Hamilton/Bowen

SF:Lamar Odom/Ron Artest

PF:Brand/D.Howard/Webber

C:Duncan/Camby

Not sure that would win either... but it's a team I could go with.

[thescout5]

I like that team northcyde. Cassell with his leadership and savy play plus his height would have been better than paul vs greece.If not nash I could live with Cassell.I left Shaq off because either the team didn't invite him or shaq just didn't want to play.Shaq is a no brainer since he can still doinate the other team in spurts.No man could guard him and despite a zone shaq wouldn't give up the points like last night to his man.Ben Wallace i thought about him also.He would help in the rebounding and doesn't get pushed around.Artest,when his head is on right great combination of offense and defense.Not sure if duncan was invited but yes I would want him on the team if he wants.Redd is a no brainer can fill it up from outside.

I hope this defeat pisses some people off in the NBA.I agree the team needs to play together much much more to understand each others tendencies.I still fill the current roster has flaws has we saw.Some how the team concept must be reached no matter who is on the club your not going to win.

Can we make Nash a US citizen? He can dominate a game as a guard but I guess that is wishful thinking.Anyway I am mad about this loss and I hope the people putting the team together are also.Just watching Melo's face and coach k's glaze yesterday tells me that something has got to change.Maybe some of these NBA players will want to play for team to represent the US like we should.Your right,lebron,wade are guys that take it to the hoop and maybe we need more outside shooters.Kobe and Redd could fill it up.The team is to one dimensional which is something the commentators were saying that the greece team can play many style of ball.

It starts with lock down defense and I don't think we have that with this team.Put kobe,artest,shaq,howard and whoever at point and the other team would know what a defense is.

[thescout5]

Hot,I also could live with Cillups at point.Strong defender,quality point guard.Jason Kidd another excellent point guard forgot about him.I like the ray allen addition also.I think the big think about international ball is we don't need as many slashers.Zone defenses are common,good defense is important and playing a team concept on offense.Shaq can still block shots and is still unstoppable in spurts.Duncan, you may be right hot he never did well in the international game.I am going to have to scour the NBA to see if any other players should be on the team.

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

---

Hot,I also could live with Cillups at point.Strong defender,quality point guard.Jason Kidd another excellent point guard forgot about him.I like the ray allen addition also.I think the big think about international ball is we don't need as many slashers.Zone defenses are common,good defense is important and playing a team concept on offense.Shaq can still block shots and is still unstoppable in spurts.Duncan, you may be right hot he never did well in the international game.I am going to have to scour the NBA to see if any other players should be on the team.

---

I'd like to have a PG that can run the halfcourt and have a PG that can run the fast break. Billups is a halfcourt PG, and Jason Kidd is a fullcourt PG.

Kidd doesn't have anything left on the defensive end, but I think he's still better in that area than Sam Cassell.

i think that's an important position in these games.