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[BossTweed]

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No one is paying money to watch Elton Brand that they wouldn't already spend to watch a NBA game.

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And you have no clue as to what you are talking about. Basketball did not become fun to watch for a Clipper fan until Brand got there. I really do not like to call people names; but you are a typical wannabe insider who is clueless as to what the real league is all about.

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He's talking about making a splash in the Atlanta entertainment market. Adding Elton Brand will not lead to you selling out all your games like adding Kobe, KG, AI and a few others will. He didn't say that he wasn't a good player, and that he couldn't lead a team to longterm winning and financial success.

[Buzzsaw]

Thanks Sothron ... I'm seriously not going to be able to sleep Wednesday night.

[vdunkndunk]

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To me a superstar carries with it some expectation of putting butts in seats. No one is paying money to watch Elton Brand that they wouldn't already spend to watch a NBA game. I have a great deal of respect for Brand but he's not going to meet my superstar list.

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I agree wtih Soth here. Brand is a borderline superstar and a great player, but there are only a couple of true superstars in the NBA, and it has to do not only with how good they are, but also with how excited they get people nationally. I'm sure Clippers fans absolutley love Brand, but it's fairly obvious that guys like Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, or KG are a tier above someone like Elton Brand in terms of superstar appeal and national interest.

And to me, Amare is very, very close to being a superstar - much closer than Brand. In fact, I personally think that Amare is one of the top two or three most exciting players in the NBA right now. He's such an athletic beast that when you watch him up close in real life he can blow your mind just with a spin move - never mind the massive dunk that follows it up a splitsecond later. Bar none he has the most explosive comibination of size and athletic ability I've ever seen in person. I would pay big-time money to watch him from the front row - especially if he was wearing a Hawks jersey.

In other words, if we could find a way to land Amare I would be ecstatic. Watching Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, and Amare Stoudamire run the floor together would be a sight to behold. We'd just have to find a way to get a pass-first PG to lead the break, since I assume if we land Amare we'd be giving up both our picks. I know a lot of people didn't like the Ridnour rumor, but if we landed Amare and Ridnour over the summer I think we'd be one of the most explosive teams in the NBA and a legitimate contender to go to the NBA Finals next season.

G: Luke Ridnour

G: Joe Johnson

F: Marvin Williams

F: Josh Smith

C: Amare Stoudamire

Too good to be true? Probably. Fun to imagine? Definitely. I think thinking about the draft this late at night probably isn't a good thing for me....right now anything seems possible, when in reality I predict we draft Horford and Law and just hang on to them. Not bad, but man...wouldn't it be nice to see the Hawks on TNT all the time, to see them in the playoffs, to see them win 50 or 60 games, to hear the experts picking us to win the East before the season began?

[DawsonsCreek]

That would be a real nice lineup Vd. Amare would probably require all our picks. So that would mean we could deal Chill(for a pg if hes not apart of a phoenix deal), sign someone at pg (dunno how realistic that would be because of what we did last year) or stick with Craig.

Whatever we do this year its probably gonna be all the major moves we are gonna do for the next 2 years...in terms of no draft pick next year, resigning our own players (smith and reupping marvin) and taking on money for vet players via trade this year(if atl decides to do so).

[vdunkndunk]

Okay...here goes my best shot at a 3-way trade between Atlanta, Minnesota, and Phoenix. It's tough to make all the salaries work, but I got this one to go on the RealGM tradechecker...and I even think it looks pretty fair for all parties involved:

ATLANTA TRADES:

3rd pick, 11th pick, Shelden, Lo, T-Lue, and AJ

ATLANTA RECIEVES:

Amare Stoudamire, Leandaro Barbosa

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PHOENIX TRADES:

Stoudamire, Barbosa, 24th pick, 29th pick, KT, Banks, and Piatowski

PHOENIX RECEIVES:

Kevin Garnett, 11th pick

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MINNESOTA TRADES:

Kevin Garnett

MINNESOTA RECIEVES:

3rd pick, (7th pick), Shelden, 24th pick, 29th pick

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the expiring contracts of Lo, AJ, T-Lue, KT, and Piatowski

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One bad contract in Marcus Banks to make the salaries work

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Your 2007-2008 Atlanta Hawks:

G: Leandoro Barbosa / Speedy Claxton

G: Joe Johnson / Josh Childress

F: Marvin Williams / Josh Childress

F: Josh Smith / Solomon Jones

C: Amare Stoudamire / Zaza Pachulia

I think that's a playoff team EASY if healthy...and possibly next year's Eastern Conference Champions!

[DawsonsCreek]

Vd, not bad. 2 nice players (hope the production in phoenix would translate to the hawks). At the same time shedding some of the excess contracts we have.

[Hawkzzz21]

Minn and Phx already agreed to this trade, Atlanta isn't giving up the 11th pick. That's the hold up. PHX or ATL gives Minn something extra it will happen, but I guess ATL isn't confident they can get Billups or Boykins

Yi= Toni Kukoc.....Do you guys want Kuckoc for a center?

Boykins = NBA fan favorite! We built Spud Webb in this town remember. Atlanta has no PG to take the offer that is currently on the table (no guranteed PG).

[Buzzard]

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And you have no clue as to what you are talking about. Basketball did not become fun to watch for a Clipper fan until Brand got there.

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You mean 5 years after he got there when they actually went to the playoffs?

You are ridiculous, just because someone has a different definition of "superstar" you are going to claim him as having no credibility? What a joke, he has a rigid definition yet you completely ignore this. Talk about someone getting hung up on semantics and not being able to figure things out even when Soth has made it perfectly clear for anyone with some semblance of logic skills.

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Whatever dude...attendance and record for these pitifull Clippers in 2001:

Los Angeles Clippers: 2001-02, 740,185 total and 18,053 per game (team W-L record 39-43).

Missed the playoffs but averaged almost as much as the Highlife Lakers:

Los Angeles Lakers: 2001-02, 778,777 total and 18,995 per game (team W-L record 58-24).

My point is some people have blinders on when it comes to the NBA west of the Missisippi. Brand may not be a superstar to a few narrow minded fans; but for most he is a superstar and for the Clips he is a serious box office draw in this league. A better draw than anyone we have had since Nique. Period!

[Boondocks]

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Just curious but why in the WORLD would Phoenix even consider trading Amare? I just don't understand that at all just to get KG in return. Amare is like 24yrs old and KG is pushing 32yrs old. They both put up incredible numbers. Does Amare want out or something?

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a) Amare had microfracture surgery on his knee, twice if I recall correctly. Eventhough this surgery did work for him (in contrast to Allan Houston and Chris Webber, never the same afterwards) it's likely the knee will become a problem again.

b) He's got some chemistry issues with Marion, Nash and perhaps even his whole team. Call it a superego.

c) His moms is nuts and up in everybody's business, no kidding.

d) Small market team with luxury tax issues

that said, Mari is so damn good they are trying their best to trade Marion instead

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What are the rumors involving Andre Miller anyway? If it involves the 11th+players I'm all for it.

[ATLBob]

Thanks Soth, been lookin for this one ...

[saloonyk8]

The most important things I thought about and gathered from this last night...

1.) Maybe I should quit my Billy Knight hating. He has acquired some nice pieces, but the question has always been if he can put it all together. I think we're very close.

2.) Trade or not, I am happy that the Hawks brass is pushing aggressively to fix the roster without giving up too much.

3.) Mentally, I'm preparing myself for the loss of Marvin or Smoove. I think it will go down a lot easier if I think like this now than wait for draft night and see we got Amare or something and lose one of those guys. In the end, I think it'd be worth it, but I better start preparing.

4.) Let's hope for the best, I've always wanted to be on the receiving end of those NBA fire sales that happen every now and then...maybe this is the year.

[saloonyk8]

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Just curious but why in the WORLD would Phoenix even consider trading Amare? I just don't understand that at all just to get KG in return. Amare is like 24yrs old and KG is pushing 32yrs old. They both put up incredible numbers. Does Amare want out or something?

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a) Amare had microfracture surgery on his knee, twice if I recall correctly. Eventhough this surgery did work for him (in contrast to Allan Houston and Chris Webber, never the same afterwards) it's likely the knee will become a problem again.

b) He's got some chemistry issues with Marion, Nash and perhaps even his whole team. Call it a superego.

c) His moms is nuts and up in everybody's business, no kidding.

d) Small market team with luxury tax issues

that said, Mari is so damn good they are trying their best to trade Marion instead

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What are the rumors involving Andre Miller anyway? If it involves the 11th+players I'm all for it.

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Amare was first team all NBA last year. He's 24 years old. If you have a chance to acquire someone like that, you do it...I don't care how psycho the mom is.

[AtlHomer]

Sothron, as usual GREAT information and insight! I wouldn't be surprised if some of the national basketball prognosticators extract tidbits from your posts and begin reporting on them as their own findings.

As I mentioned before, it sounds like your sources are fans and understand the need to have a 'buzz' about the team. Your posts have definitely done that. Thank and protect them.

[SuperSavvyNation]

Buzzard:

Wow, talk about coming from WAYYYY out of left field. Get a grip, man.

So, because he has a different definition of 'superstar' than you (very subjective opinion, right?) then he has no credibility and can't relay information from someone on the inside? Now that's just plain silly.

The point is not about the Clippers (for whom you have some vested interest apparently and are way too defensive). He was making the point to say that it was someone with MORE star quality than Elton Brand (or Gasol).

Zbo

[Sothron]

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Buzzard:

Wow, talk about coming from WAYYYY out of left field. Get a grip, man.

So, because he has a different definition of 'superstar' than you (very subjective opinion, right?) then he has no credibility and can't relay information from someone on the inside? Now that's just plain silly.

The point is not about the Clippers (for whom you have some vested interest apparently and are way too defensive). He was making the point to say that it was someone with MORE star quality than Elton Brand (or Gasol).

Zbo

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Thanks for the defense guys. I honestly do not know even how to respond to a charge against my credibility because of a disagreement on a subjective term over "superstar". I am relieved to see its an issue apparently only one person is struggling with.

[Yeti]

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3.) Mentally, I'm preparing myself for the loss of Marvin or Smoove. I think it will go down a lot easier if I think like this now than wait for draft night and see we got Amare or something and lose one of those guys. In the end, I think it'd be worth it, but I better start preparing.

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Based on the Hawks new website and the hometown fans, I'd say Smoove is staying and Marvin is already gone. Probably good for Marvin if he gets a chance to play for a coach with a system.

[Yeti]

I just worry about any trade with Phoenix. They took Billy to the woodshed last time and we've been arguing about it for two years.

[Boondocks]

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Just curious but why in the WORLD would Phoenix even consider trading Amare? I just don't understand that at all just to get KG in return. Amare is like 24yrs old and KG is pushing 32yrs old. They both put up incredible numbers. Does Amare want out or something?

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a) Amare had microfracture surgery on his knee, twice if I recall correctly. Eventhough this surgery did work for him (in contrast to Allan Houston and Chris Webber, never the same afterwards) it's likely the knee will become a problem again.

b) He's got some chemistry issues with Marion, Nash and perhaps even his whole team. Call it a superego.

c) His moms is nuts and up in everybody's business, no kidding.

d) Small market team with luxury tax issues

that said, Mari is so damn good they are trying their best to trade Marion instead

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What are the rumors involving Andre Miller anyway? If it involves the 11th+players I'm all for it.

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Amare was first team all NBA last year. He's 24 years old. If you have a chance to acquire someone like that, you do it...I don't care how psycho the mom is.

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Hey I know and agree, the question was why he was available in the first place. Mari is an astonishing freak of nature, in a good way.

[DrReality]

It's funny reading this thread . . . . I get the image of 13 year boys gathered around one kid who has already gotten the chance to feel up a girl and everyone wants to know what it's like. good to see the excitement.

[Sothron]

It felt like...two bags of warm sand.