Time to discuss Vick again

[cyman3]

The ODDS are against him.

The others sold him out.

If you were his lawyer, would you still fight it or would you look for a weaker punishment?

[Buzzard]

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The ODDS are against him.

The others sold him out.

If you were his lawyer, would you still fight it or would you look for a weaker punishment?

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Things we do not know. Are the feds wanting Vick badly because he was the money man? Other words do they even want to offer Vick a decent plea bargain? Do the Feds want Vick to give up some other big time players? Is he willing to do that?

I am sure Vick is not a bonafide ganster/mobster; but at the same time he probably knows some. He is in a tough place. Sort of like Bonds, except they have the goods on Vick; and Bonds' boy did not sell him down the river. Of course Vick did throw his cousin under the bus 1st with his "close friends and relatives taking advantage of his generosity speech."

My answer to your question is:

If I know I am guilty and also know the Feds have me, I am trying to plead down for a lighter sentence and hoping like hell we can work something out that does not require me to turn on anyone...

[chillzatl]

The remaining two defendants did not roll over on Vick, they just took a plea to try and help themselves, but they did so without turning on Vick. The only one to do that was the first guy.

They're also saying that a plea deal is all but done for Vick and right now the only haggling point is trying to get it reduced from a felony to a misdemeanor and getting the jail time under one year.

[Guest MLibid]

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ATLANTA (SI.com) -- Michael Vick's lawyers are trying to negotiate a plea deal with federal prosecutors, in hopes of limiting the embattled Falcons quarterback's jail time and paving the way for a quick return to the NFL, according to a report in the Atlanta-Journal Constitution.

According to the AJC, Vick's attorneys sought the major change in strategy after two of Vick's co-defendants in the upcoming dogfighting trial -- Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips -- reportedly struck their own plea deals with federal prosecutors on Monday. Peace, Phillips and a third former co-defendant -- Troy Taylor, who surrendered to the feds last month -- could potentially damage any and all of Vick's testimony detailing his role in an alleged dogfighting operation across state lines, if Vick's case goes to trial in November.

Peace and Phillips have plea hearings scheduled later this week in a U.S. District Court in Richmond, Va.

A few weeks ago, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell placed Vick on indefinite leave from the Falcons and their training-camp operations in Flowery Branch, Ga. The AJC's report gave no definitive word as to how the Falcons or NFL would handle a Vick plea bargain -- in terms of suspension or even lifetime banishment.

If convicted in a court of law, Vick could receive up to five years in prison and/or $250,000 in fines. And if he declines a plea bargain by Friday, sources say the federal government has plans to levy additional charges against Vick, including racketeering.

Even if Vick's attorneys strike a plea deal this week, ProFootballTalk.com speculates the Falcons could attempt to recover approximately $28 million in bonus monies previously paid to Vick from his lucrative contract extension after the 2004 season.

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/foot...tml?eref=si_nfl

Does this mean Vick will go to jail FOR SURE?

[Beelzebob]

At what point do the illegal gambling charges get brought into the picture? Vick will never play in the NFL again if he pleas or gets convited of gambling. That means he has to pay back about 28 million in signing bonus money.

[AHF]

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At what point do the illegal gambling charges get brought into the picture? Vick will never play in the NFL again if he pleas or gets convited of gambling. That means he has to pay back about 28 million in signing bonus money.

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I don't think that is accurate. In terms of gambling, if he is proven or pleads to making bets on dog fights that will be the same criminal violation as Michael Jordan making bets on the golf course. It would not keep him out of the league.

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On the question of whether Vick does jail time for sure, I think the answer is that if he pleads or is convicted then he is definitely going to do jail time. The only way he avoids jail time is if he fights the charges and gets a not guilty verdict on the vast majority of the charges (either all of them or all except some minor violation).

[scottt]

I represent lots of people in Federal Courts. If I were his lawyer, I would cut the best deal I could, enter the plea, and have my client go immediately into custody (instead of waiting for sentencing which would take 2 months and then the voluntary surrender which would take 2 or 3 more months.) Going into custody would save my client having to face the media. It would also be viewed as an act of contrition. It would also virtually guarantee that his jail time and his NFL suspension would run concurrently rather than consecutively. The only way Vick gets his life back is to get this case resolved and get his time served.

[AHF]

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I represent lots of people in Federal Courts. If I were his lawyer, I would cut the best deal I could, enter the plea, and have my client go immediately into custody (instead of waiting for sentencing which would take 2 months and then the voluntary surrender which would take 2 or 3 more months.) Going into custody would save my client having to face the media. It would also be viewed as an act of contrition. It would also virtually guarantee that his jail time and his NFL suspension would run concurrently rather than consecutively. The only way Vick gets his life back is to get this case resolved and get his time served.

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I completely agree. Assuming he cuts a deal, he needs to go immediately into custody.

A one year suspension could then be done by this week next year and if he gets a jail sentence of a year or shorter, he could be returning to play by the start of next season.

[chillzatl]

That a teammate of Vick's could be called to testify against him as well. They mentioned yesterday rumors that other NFL players may be involved also.

[coachx]

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That a teammate of Vick's could be called to testify against him as well. They mentioned yesterday rumors that other NFL players may be involved also.

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Man I hope its not Crumpler or Hall. They seemed to be the guys closest to Vick on the team.

The one guy we know would never be involved is Dunn.

[Beelzebob]

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At what point do the illegal gambling charges get brought into the picture? Vick will never play in the NFL again if he pleas or gets convited of gambling. That means he has to pay back about 28 million in signing bonus money.

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I don't think that is accurate. In terms of gambling, if he is proven or pleads to making bets on dog fights that will be the same criminal violation as Michael Jordan making bets on the golf course. It would not keep him out of the league.

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On the question of whether Vick does jail time for sure, I think the answer is that if he pleads or is convicted then he is definitely going to do jail time. The only way he avoids jail time is if he fights the charges and gets a not guilty verdict on the vast majority of the charges (either all of them or all except some minor violation).

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"Vick would likely owe the Falcons, as we've reported, more than $28 million in previously paid bonus money. He would receive a stiff suspension from the NFL, and possibly a lifetime ban if he pleads guilty to conspiracy to maintain an interstate gambling enterprise."

Profootballtalk.com

Under VICK LAWYERS WANT LESS THAN A YEAR BEHIND BARS

[hawkman]

I wonder what are the odds that he plays for the Falcons again? Ray Lewis plead guilty to obstruction of justice in a murder case and is playing football for the same franchise that drafted him. He's looked at as a role model now. If you look at the situation from that perspective, Vick pleading guilty to conspiracy charges doesn't seem nearly as bad. He could do his time and be back in time for next season. Only this time he will be a changed man with the understanding of how fragile his success/career in the NFL is. He would be a better and more focused player on the field with none of the off the field crap. Of course, if he has any, and I mean ANY, troubles after that...cut him. I know I may be reaching here but this team needs their superstar back.

[AHF]

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At what point do the illegal gambling charges get brought into the picture? Vick will never play in the NFL again if he pleas or gets convited of gambling. That means he has to pay back about 28 million in signing bonus money.

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I don't think that is accurate. In terms of gambling, if he is proven or pleads to making bets on dog fights that will be the same criminal violation as Michael Jordan making bets on the golf course. It would not keep him out of the league.

* * *

On the question of whether Vick does jail time for sure, I think the answer is that if he pleads or is convicted then he is definitely going to do jail time. The only way he avoids jail time is if he fights the charges and gets a not guilty verdict on the vast majority of the charges (either all of them or all except some minor violation).

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"Vick would likely owe the Falcons, as we've reported, more than $28 million in previously paid bonus money. He would receive a stiff suspension from the NFL, and possibly a lifetime ban if he pleads guilty to conspiracy to maintain an interstate gambling enterprise."

Profootballtalk.com

Under VICK LAWYERS WANT LESS THAN A YEAR BEHIND BARS

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I thought that you were talking about pleading guilty to making illegal bets. Conspiracy to maintain an insterstate gambling enterprise is a whole different charge and much more serious.

Notably, Vick hasn't been charged with that crime to date.

Hence, if he pleads guilty this week he certainly won't be pleading guilty conspiracy to maintain an interstate gambling enterprise.

He is also much less likely to get convicted of that than many of the other crimes with which he is charged.

It is very unlikely at this point that Vick is going to return all $28M in bonus money to Atlanta.

The most likely outcome is that he will accept a plea agreement and the team will waive him and not pursue payback of previously paid bonus money.

[gsuteke]

It is highly unlikely Vick beats this rap. I think the only thing holding up a deal at this point is the NFL. Will Goodell cooperate with Vick's lawyers and give them a determination based on a submission of facts?

More importantly how will Arthur Blank react to a plea on a lesser charge? Will the Falcons immediately go after all of Vick's bonus money or just a portion of it? Will they release the Quarterback and force him to sign a different contract if they do allow him to come back?

[AHF]

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It is highly unlikely Vick beats this rap. I think the only thing holding up a deal at this point is the NFL. Will Goodell cooperate with Vick's lawyers and give them a determination based on a submission of facts?

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Chris Mortenson said this morning that the Commish's office is not getting involved with this deal and is not going to consult with Vick's attorney's regarding the league's response to a plea.

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More importantly how will Arthur Blank react to a plea on a lesser charge? Will the Falcons immediately go after all of Vick's bonus money or just a portion of it? Will they release the Quarterback and force him to sign a different contract if they do allow him to come back?

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My understanding is that they will have to keep Vick on the roster if they want to go after the bonus money that has already been paid and that if they release him they will not be able to recoup that money.

My personal guess is that Vick is done in Atlanta and will not be coming back regardless of how this shakes out.

[coachx]

But once Vick is imprisoned and offically suspended it seems his contract would be void due to him not being able to fullfill the contract obligations.

I realize their is "guaranteed money" in the contract that is intended to be guaranteed money due to injury rather then imprisonment on felony convictions.

It would really suck if Blank has to pay this bum another dime after the millions he has already made for being the worst passing quarterback in the entire NFL. It would suck even more for the teams future salary cap implications.

This years bonus us gone but he should not be getting any more annual signing $$ should he ?

[AHF]

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But once Vick is imprisoned and offically suspended it seems his contract would be void due to him not being able to fullfill the contract obligations.

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My understanding is that this relieves the Falcons of the obligation to pay him for the upcoming season but the fact that he is suspended and in jail doesn't allow them to simply cut him and recoup all the previous bonus money unless they can show that he violated a morales clause or some similar provision in his contract that allows for recovery of prior bonus $$.

I don't know enough to opine on all the cap ramifications, though.

[Traceman]

Vick's best course of action at this point appears to be to try to negotiate a plea agreement that results in as little jail time as possible. During plea negotiations, it will be interesting to see what the prosecution is willing to accept in light of the fact that Vick is a first time offender. I think he should seriously consider accepting a deal if it results in anything less than 1 year in jail due to the relatively easy nature of proving conspiracy cases when other parties to the conspiracy have already plead guilty.

In a best case scenario, Vick will get less than 1 year in jail and Commissioner Goodell will allow at least a portion of his suspension to run concurrently with his jail sentence. If that is the case then hopefully he will be allowed to return the league sometime in '08 or perhaps at the beginning of '09.

[DJlaysitup]

Those are pretty much my thoughts too Trace. Say he gets a year in a minimum security federal prison and serves 8 months (he can meet some ex-Congressmen and Wallstreet execs )...and say the NFL suspends him for a year concurrently (I don't think they will suspend him for life - at some point the players union would have to stand up for him...then he gets out and calls a press conference apologizing for his conduct and writes a fat check to the Humane Society. He could even become an anti-dog fighting spokesperson like the old reformed addicts preaching against drugs, maybe do a couple public service commercials - then he will probably be forgiven by most and can resume his football career.

The thing that worries me down the road is - Arthur B. has said he won't be coming back as a Falcon. In order to make that happen they would have to cut him (making him a free agent). Anybody who thinks no other teams will pick him up is crazy. Can you imagine having to go up against the Saints with both Bush and Vick? Some team will take him. Everything will die down and there will be like 2 PETA protesters at the game and nobody will care (especially after Vick runs 50 yards for a touchdown).

[Traceman]

I hate them both with a passion. I am STILL having a hard time with the idea of having to root for Joe Horn.

Hopefully, he will go to an AFC team but you just KNOW he will end up somewhere like NO or Tampa.