Pau Gasol Trade - revisited

[T21]

I mentioned this possibility before... My arguments were clear and simple!

Gasol would instantly give us low-post presence and open up the floor for JJ's (Salim) outside game and create open lanes for our slashers (who play better without the ball!)... Plus, this guy can run the floor and would perfectly fit the Hawks (still very young, high BB-IQ).

I strongly believe that he and Al would create sensational front-court. Hawks would no longer be one-dimensional/easy to defend team...

Now, I'm bringing this up because I've just read the article on Insidehoops / Memphis local newspappers about Gasol's name being mentioned again in trade rumors... According to the article (which mostly revolves around Memphis-Chicago saga) our GM had a standing offer for Gasol (he made a trade for Gasol) and I was wondering who was on the table, if there's any truth to this info?

P.S. Gasol would make us contenders and we would be set for the future...

[frosgrim]

Please give us all the link you are using.

I am in the get Gasol camp for most of the reasons you mention.

I did see on CNNSI.com, that Memphis maybe backing out of trades once again. Link

From what I can tell, Memphis doesn't know what it wants to do. IMO, they are looking for the perfect trade for them. No one is going to pay thier full-price for Pau though.

[MemphisX]

Well, the article he is referring to is in the Memphis Commercial Appeal. The writer has a radio show and on this show he said the standing offer is basically Josh Smith/filler for Pau but the Grizzlies want someone to take Brian Cardinal also and the Hawks won't bite.

[Dragitoff]

The best offer I can think of for Gasol wwould be

Childress, Lue, Shelden, ZaZa, and Lo for Gasol and Stoudamire

That would leave us a little thin on big men, but Memphis could get rid of Stoudamire's contract while moving Gasol for mostly expiring deals.

AJ/JJ/Marvin/Smoove/Gasol

Bench: Law/Horford/Stoudamire/Solo/West/Salim

We'd have to go out and sign some free agents and/or guys from the NBDL to fill out the roster since we'd have 3 open roster spots. I doubt Memphis does that deal unless they want out of Damon's deal that bad.

[Admin]

That's the best offer that I would make at this point as well. None of the core group of players (JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Horford, or Acie) would be available in trade at this point with anyone because they have all shown that they deserve to be kept together. I HATE trading Childress but I would do it in order to get Gasol and maybe to get Daly.

[Packfill]

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That's the best offer that I would make at this point as well. None of the core group of players (JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Horford, or Acie) would be available in trade at this point with anyone because they have all shown that they deserve to be kept together. I HATE trading Childress but I would do it in order to get Gasol and maybe to get Daly.

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What have these guys done that shows they deserve to be kept together?

[Diesel]

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Well, the article he is referring to is in the Memphis Commercial Appeal. The writer has a radio show and on this show he said the standing offer is basically Josh Smith/filler for Pau but the Grizzlies want someone to take Brian Cardinal also and the Hawks won't bite.

If the standing offer has Smith in it, they must take Speedy and we will not take back Cardinal.

However, if they would take Marvin instead of Smoove, we will give them a deal without Speedy but with ending contracts.

[coachx]

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What have these guys done that shows they deserve to be kept together?

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A 9 win /4 loss record for December ?

[T21]

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Well, the article he is referring to is in the Memphis Commercial Appeal. The writer has a radio show and on this show he said the standing offer is basically Josh Smith/filler for Pau but the Grizzlies want someone to take Brian Cardinal also and the Hawks won't bite.

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Thanks for shedding light on whose names were mentioned...

I'm also against any deal involving Smoove! It would be great if Grizz would take a package of basically Chillz, Shelden + filler or two... But that's a long shot!

If we are going to land Gasol, we'll have to give up Marvin or Smoove! I know... it sucks! However, IMO that's the only way we're gonna get our team to another level...

[Diesel]

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Well, the article he is referring to is in the Memphis Commercial Appeal. The writer has a radio show and on this show he said the standing offer is basically Josh Smith/filler for Pau but the Grizzlies want someone to take Brian Cardinal also and the Hawks won't bite.

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Thanks for shedding light on whose names were mentioned...

I'm also against any deal involving Smoove! It would be great if Grizz would take a package of basically Chillz, Shelden + filler or two... But that's a long shot!

If we are going to land Gasol, we'll have to give up Marvin or Smoove! I know... it sucks! However, IMO that's the only way we're gonna get our team to another level...

With:

PF = Smoove, Horford.

SF = Marvin, Chillz.

It's obvious that we have a log jam with no Real Center.

For the future, Acie = Only PG signed.

Without Chillz, JJ = Only SG signed.

What's the fix?

Has to be shopping for Gasol.

It would be nice if we can trade Marvin/Filler for Gasol. However, more than likely, Smoove/Filler will get us Gasol. We just have to make three demands with that:

1. They take Speedy.

2. We get Navarro.

3. We do not take on Cardinal.

Now, if they take Marvin, i would be more willing to take back Cardinal... but not if they're getting Smoove. He's a megastar in the making.

[TheTruth]

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Well, the article he is referring to is in the Memphis Commercial Appeal. The writer has a radio show and on this show he said the standing offer is basically Josh Smith/filler for Pau but the Grizzlies want someone to take Brian Cardinal also and the Hawks won't bite.

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Thanks for shedding light on whose names were mentioned...

I'm also against any deal involving Smoove! It would be great if Grizz would take a package of basically Chillz, Shelden + filler or two... But that's a long shot!

If we are going to land Gasol, we'll have to give up Marvin or Smoove! I know... it sucks! However, IMO that's the only way we're gonna get our team to another level...

With:

PF = Smoove, Horford.

SF = Marvin, Chillz.

It's obvious that we have a log jam with no Real Center.

For the future, Acie = Only PG signed.

Without Chillz, JJ = Only SG signed.

What's the fix?

Has to be shopping for Gasol.

It would be nice if we can trade Marvin/Filler for Gasol. However, more than likely, Smoove/Filler will get us Gasol. We just have to make three demands with that:

1. They take Speedy.

2. We get Navarro.

3. We do not take on Cardinal.

Now, if they take Marvin, i would be more willing to take back Cardinal... but not if they're getting Smoove. He's a megastar in the making.

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Diesel, I like your thinking here. I just got through talking to my dad extensively about the Hawks and fellow Squawkers' contemplation of bringing in Gasol. Here is my take:

I love the idea of bringing Gasol in for five main reasons:

1)Low Post scorer (we don't have one, so they Zone up on us)

2)Can play Center

3)Move Horford to his natural PF Position

4)Gives you another legit scorer

5)Opens up the floor for guys like JJ because he always commands Double Teams (very, very important)

However...I do NOT like the idea of giving up Josh Smith for him. Period. Josh Smith will be a bona fide superstar in this league if he ever ties everything together. Josh Smith does many things well, just nothing outside of blocking shots from the weak side exceptionally well. However, he is a legit playmaker that alters shots and can provide SOME interior defense as well.

With that said, I WOULD trade Marvin Williams for him IF the Grizz were to take him. Lately, Williams' calling card has been his ability to knock down the jump shot consistently. However, he has not done so as much past few games. He still seems to hesitate to be a second or third option on offense (even when Joe or Josh are struggling) and if he is not scoring, does not bring a whole lot more to the table besides good defense (like Rebounding and Assists). He isn't even getting to the charity stripe as much recently and has never been the type to play aggressively--even though many have been hoping for him to do so for some time now. Marvin has the tools to score 20-25 pts a game. However, since he is not doing so, it will be much easier to find a replacement who can just score and do little else.

I love Marvin, I really do, but if I had to pick between the two, I would ship Marvin off.

The Starting 5 would look like this next year:

PG: Acie Law

SG: Joe Johnson

SF: Josh Smith

PF: Al Horford

C: Pau Gasol

I am not all that concerned with Josh Smith moving to SF. He will still be a do-it-all type player that just won't be shooting many 3s that you would expect from a SF...Hopefully by next year Acie will be able to do that. Joe can as well. Can Smoove keep up with the smaller players he would be defending at the 3? I cannot comment on that. I will let more experienced guys answer that.

Furthermore, our Defense won't suffer nearly as much as people think. Hopefully, our new coach (after Woody is deservingly fired in the offseason) will recognize Gasol's limitations and work on them. Plus, the change in scenery could be very advantageous for Gasol. Our rebounding will automatically go up, so will our low post scoring, Horford will be nightmare for PFs and his Defense will be much better against guys his body is more suitable for guarding, and Joe Johnson and Acie Law's life will be much easier with a guy like Gasol manning the middle and opening up the floor.

We would immediately go from a very undersized team to a very nice-sized team. This team, as currently structured, is deeply flawed. SOMETHING has to give. I am no GM, but I do know that if we don't make a move, we will have to settle for mediocrity and/OR sneak into the playoffs only to suffer early exits for years to come.

These are my thoughts.

[T21]

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Well, the article he is referring to is in the Memphis Commercial Appeal. The writer has a radio show and on this show he said the standing offer is basically Josh Smith/filler for Pau but the Grizzlies want someone to take Brian Cardinal also and the Hawks won't bite.

---

Thanks for shedding light on whose names were mentioned...

I'm also against any deal involving Smoove! It would be great if Grizz would take a package of basically Chillz, Shelden + filler or two... But that's a long shot!

If we are going to land Gasol, we'll have to give up Marvin or Smoove! I know... it sucks! However, IMO that's the only way we're gonna get our team to another level...

With:

PF = Smoove, Horford.

SF = Marvin, Chillz.

It's obvious that we have a log jam with no Real Center.

For the future, Acie = Only PG signed.

Without Chillz, JJ = Only SG signed.

What's the fix?

Has to be shopping for Gasol.

It would be nice if we can trade Marvin/Filler for Gasol. However, more than likely, Smoove/Filler will get us Gasol. We just have to make three demands with that:

1. They take Speedy.

2. We get Navarro.

3. We do not take on Cardinal.

Now, if they take Marvin, i would be more willing to take back Cardinal... but not if they're getting Smoove. He's a megastar in the making.

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Diesel, I like your thinking here. I just got through talking to my dad extensively about the Hawks and fellow Squawkers' contemplation of bringing in Gasol. Here is my take:

I love the idea of bringing Gasol in for five main reasons:

1)Low Post scorer (we don't have one, so they Zone up on us)

2)Can play Center

3)Move Horford to his natural PF Position

4)Gives you another legit scorer

5)Opens up the floor for guys like JJ because he always commands Double Teams (very, very important)

However...I do NOT like the idea of giving up Josh Smith for him. Period. Josh Smith will be a bona fide superstar in this league if he ever ties everything together. Josh Smith does many things well, just nothing outside of blocking shots from the weak side exceptionally well. However, he is a legit playmaker that alters shots and can provide SOME interior defense as well.

With that said, I WOULD trade Marvin Williams for him IF the Grizz were to take him. Lately, Williams' calling card has been his ability to knock down the jump shot consistently. However, he has not done so as much past few games. He still seems to hesitate to be a second or third option on offense (even when Joe or Josh are struggling) and if he is not scoring, does not bring a whole lot more to the table besides good defense (like Rebounding and Assists). He isn't even getting to the charity stripe as much recently and has never been the type to play aggressively--even though many have been hoping for him to do so for some time now. Marvin has the tools to score 20-25 pts a game. However, since he is not doing so, it will be much easier to find a replacement who can just score and do little else.

I love Marvin, I really do, but if I had to pick between the two, I would ship Marvin off.

The Starting 5 would look like this next year:

PG: Acie Law

SG: Joe Johnson

SF: Josh Smith

PF: Al Horford

C: Pau Gasol

I am not all that concerned with Josh Smith moving to SF. He will still be a do-it-all type player that just won't be shooting many 3s that you would expect from a SF...Hopefully by next year Acie will be able to do that. Joe can as well. Can Smoove keep up with the smaller players he would be defending at the 3? I cannot comment on that. I will let more experienced guys answer that.

Furthermore, our Defense won't suffer nearly as much as people think. Hopefully, our new coach (after Woody is deservingly fired in the offseason) will recognize Gasol's limitations and work on them. Plus, the change in scenery could be very advantageous for Gasol. Our rebounding will automatically go up, so will our low post scoring, Horford will be nightmare for PFs and his Defense will be much better against guys his body is more suitable for guarding, and Joe Johnson and Acie Law's life will be much easier with a guy like Gasol manning the middle and opening up the floor.

We would immediately go from a very undersized team to a very nice-sized team. This team, as currently structured, is deeply flawed. SOMETHING has to give. I am no GM, but I do know that if we don't make a move, we will have to settle for mediocrity and/OR sneak into the playoffs only to suffer early exits for years to come.

These are my thoughts.

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Nice post! It shows that a lot of us are on the same page...

I agree that Hawks should try to get Gasol for Marvin and a filler... and finaly shape this team as a real BB team!

Personally, I think that Smoove's game suffers much more when he's defending bigger PF's (pickin' up silly F's)... He's a combo-forward who can be used at both spots, depending on the pace, style of play and match-ups...

Finally, Al would slide into his true position - PF, and he would provide Gasol with something he never had in the past - a true banger, rebounder, defender, who is smart and has ability to play with and off of Gasol...

[Diesel]

If we were to truly trade Marvin for Gasol, we would have to do something more for Memphis...

That means...

Taking on Brian Cardinal.

I don't mind doing that if we get to keep Smoove.

We also have to knuckle down and match whatever offer comes in for Smoove...

Here's how the deal would look...

Incoming Players

Brian Cardinal

6-8 SF / PF from Purdue

2.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 7.6 minutes

Pau Gasol

7-0 PF from Spain (Foreign)

19.0 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 3.0 apg in 36.8 minutes

Outgoing Players

Salim Stoudamire

6-1 SG / PG from Arizona

4.4 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 10.5 minutes

Shelden Williams

6-9 PF from Duke

3.0 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12.2 minutes

Lorenzen Wright

6-11 C from Memphis

1.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes

Tyronn Lue

6-0 PG from Nebraska

6.5 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.9 apg in 16.9 minutes

Zaza Pachulia

6-11 C / C from Georgia (Foreign)

5.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 15.2 minutes

Marvin Williams

6-8 PF / SF from North Carolina

16.3 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 36.4 minutes

If Memphis completes the Buyout of Damon Stoudamire. This deal leaves them with: Marvin, Zaza, and Shelden next year. They will lose about 9 million in Salary for next season.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to trade Shelden for somebody like Pat Garrity.

[DrReality]

I would be very surprised if they couldn't get something better for him. Chicago has a lot of pieces they could offer and when it comes to a big teams will be linging up to make offers. Marvin and all our bench warmers . . . . don't think it would be enough.

[Diesel]

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I would be very surprised if they couldn't get something better for him. Chicago has a lot of pieces they could offer and when it comes to a big teams will be linging up to make offers. Marvin and all our bench warmers . . . . don't think it would be enough.

Salary Cap money and guaranteed Lottery are two things that are really enticing to a team as young as Memphis.

Consider this...

They can lose two of their worse contracts. I'm sure that they can find a deal for Mike Miller.

Ivaroni can then start back with:

MCJ, Navarro, Gay, Marvin, Darko.

A lot depends on what they could get for Mike Miller.

Trade Gasol

Chicago is about to trade Noce for Nachbar/Williams/Williams... Which will certainly change their roster..

[Packfill]

I just don't see why Memphis would want Marvin Williams when they already have a better, younger small forward in Rudy Gay.

[Diesel]

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I just don't see why Memphis would want Marvin Williams when they already have a better, younger small forward in Rudy Gay.

In their system, Marvin could play PF.

Ivanroni is as uptempo as they come.

[Packfill]

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I just don't see why Memphis would want Marvin Williams when they already have a better, younger small forward in Rudy Gay.

In their system, Marvin could play PF.

Ivanroni is as uptempo as they come.

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Their team would be craptastic with Marvin at the 4. This is why they want Smoove.

[JackB1]

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Trade Gasol

Chicago is about to trade Noce for Nachbar/Williams/Williams... Which will certainly change their roster..

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look at this quote from that article:

"Following last year's debacle, Memphis brought in new head coach Marc Iavaroni, who is trying to put his stamp on the team by getting it to play his brand of hard-nosed, physical basketball. The Grizzlies also appear to be headed towards being more of an athletic team that runs, instead of trying to win with the half-court style of play that best suits Gasol."

Aren't the Hawks also an "athletic team that runs". If Gasol doesn't flourish with that kind of system, what sense does it make to bring him here? Wouldn't it be more of the same for him? I also didn't see the Hawks mentioned in there at all, as possibilities for a trade.

[Diesel]

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Trade Gasol

Chicago is about to trade Noce for Nachbar/Williams/Williams... Which will certainly change their roster..

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look at this quote from that article:

"Following last year's debacle, Memphis brought in new head coach Marc Iavaroni, who is trying to put his stamp on the team by getting it to play his brand of hard-nosed, physical basketball. The Grizzlies also appear to be headed towards being more of an athletic team that runs, instead of trying to win with the half-court style of play that best suits Gasol."

Aren't the Hawks also an "athletic team that runs". If Gasol doesn't flourish with that kind of system, what sense does it make to bring him here? Wouldn't it be more of the same for him? I also didn't see the Hawks mentioned in there at all, as possibilities for a trade.

Actually the Hawks should be an Athletic team that runs. However, we play too much half court basketball. We're only a run team out of pure necessity. We don't have the post play to be a true half court team, so our answer is to put our 6'9 lineup in and run. If we get Pau, we place him in the middle.. we'll still do some running, but we'll have an inside out game because of Pau's ability to score inside and pass.