Diesel's draft day trade of the Day.

[foeteen14]

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Tayshaun is more than 6 years older than Marvin and he put up 15 ppg, 5 rbg, 3 apg and 1 spg in his BEST season. Marvin equaled that last year as a 21 year old. Why would I trade him for a player that has likely reached his prime when Marvin still hasn't come close to reaching his prime yet?

The same reason the Celtics would trade a very young and good player in Al Jefferson for KG. If Jefferson,who is much better than Marvin, can be traded then Marvin can also. Prince would help the Hawks win now more so than Marvin. He is a near shut down defender, a part of his game that won't show up in stats. He also is a threat from behind the arc which Marvin can't say.

Prince sacrifices his own offensive game so the Pistons can be a better team. He could easily put up Marvins offensive numbers but Marvin will never be the defender Prince is. With Billups, Rip, Rasheed and McDyess in the starting line up you can only score so much. Marvin has the opening to be the second scorer here but his game isn't advanced enough to do so. He gets alot of his points at the line and shooting open mid range jumpers. He isn't the threat with the ball in his hands like he should be.

Stop reading the box score and watch the games and you can see Prince is better than Marvin.

the difference between KG and Prince is enormous. KG lead the celtics to a championship, i don't think adding prince adds 1 win to the hawks. don't get me wrong, i like prince, but i like him more for chillz. yeah coming off the bench. marvin can snatch us an end of his prime very good player, not an end of his prime role player

[Diesel]

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As excited as I would be to see Antoine Walker back with the Hawks I dont think the Wolves do this and I dont believe in OJ Mayo. I doubt Walker has much left in the tank but doughnuts at this point.

I'm still baffled by Minny picking Mayo.

I suspect that they will trade somebody.

Maybe they trade McCants!

McCants/Brewer for Marvin?

[Peoriabird]

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I'm still baffled by Minny picking Mayo.

I suspect that they will trade somebody.

Maybe they trade McCants!

McCants/Brewer for Marvin?

Of course they drafted Mayo to get Marvin! You need to see someone brother! Seriously!

[Zone034life]

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i wouldn't trade marvin for prince. marvin's better than prince and he's 7 years younger. you talk about somebody disappearing for long stretches during games. prince to often becomes a complete none factor. i guarantee detroit wish they would have choosen carmelo instead of darko, because they had prince. yeah they won a championship but they would have won 3 possibly 4 with melo. and i guarantee if we offered marvin and zaza for prince, detroit wouldn't hesistate. detroit would do the trade straight up but the numbers don't work.

You write off winning a championship against Kobe and Shaq like its an after thought. He played great defense on Kobe to win that ring also.

Wow so you mean to tell me the pistons want melo now and wish they didn't draft Darko. Man you've got some great insight, i meant hindsight. Did you read the olympic roster? I saw Princes name but missed Marvins. Marvin wouldn't even make the junior olympic team over Gay, Thortan, Durant, Granger, etc.

I not down playing them winning a championship, i'm just saying they would have won if they would have drafted melo instead of darko. and the reason they didn't draft melo was because they had prince, thinking he was going to be this great player. yes, prince is on the olympic squad (the one that hasn't won gold in who knows how long), but JJ isn't (I don't think). is prince better than JJ, i dont think so. they are trying to build a real nba team. you know where you have stars and role players. smalls and big men. if sund called and offered marvin, detroit would say they have to get back us, hang up the phone, bust out laughing with joy, pick the phone back up call sund and say " we hesitantly accept your offer suckers *cough*

They drafted Darko more for they thought he was gonna be a great player more so than they thought Prince would be a star. Joe Dumars constructed that team to not have a star but players that complement each other well. JJ shouldn't be compared to Prince on that team. Micheal Redd is the player they chose instead of JJ. And what do you mean they haven't won the gold in how long? This is Princes first time being on the olympic team along with Kobe, Paul, D.Williams and others.

You disregarding Princes defense is laughable. Along with you comparing a player who plays with 4 other proven scorers in the starting line up numbers with a guy who plays on a squad begging for a number 2 scorer.

[Zone034life]

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Tayshaun is more than 6 years older than Marvin and he put up 15 ppg, 5 rbg, 3 apg and 1 spg in his BEST season. Marvin equaled that last year as a 21 year old. Why would I trade him for a player that has likely reached his prime when Marvin still hasn't come close to reaching his prime yet?

The same reason the Celtics would trade a very young and good player in Al Jefferson for KG. If Jefferson,who is much better than Marvin, can be traded then Marvin can also. Prince would help the Hawks win now more so than Marvin. He is a near shut down defender, a part of his game that won't show up in stats. He also is a threat from behind the arc which Marvin can't say.

Prince sacrifices his own offensive game so the Pistons can be a better team. He could easily put up Marvins offensive numbers but Marvin will never be the defender Prince is. With Billups, Rip, Rasheed and McDyess in the starting line up you can only score so much. Marvin has the opening to be the second scorer here but his game isn't advanced enough to do so. He gets alot of his points at the line and shooting open mid range jumpers. He isn't the threat with the ball in his hands like he should be.

Stop reading the box score and watch the games and you can see Prince is better than Marvin.

the difference between KG and Prince is enormous. KG lead the celtics to a championship, i don't think adding prince adds 1 win to the hawks. don't get me wrong, i like prince, but i like him more for chillz. yeah coming off the bench. marvin can snatch us an end of his prime very good player, not an end of his prime role player

In no way was I comparing Prince to KG. I am saying he can be a better piece to get a championship than Marvin. He is a player who knows his role and accepts it.

You would start Marvin over Prince? Man you get funnier by the minute. Trading for Prince would have to be one piece to the puzzle in getting this team into championship contention. Sending Bibby to the Nuggets for Camby could make for one hell of a roster.

Acie/Atkins

JJ/Hayes

Prince/Chillz

Smoove/ZaZa

Horford/Camby

That roster is better than what we currently have.

[Atlantaholic]

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As for whether he should be traded before Chillz, I STRONGLY disagree. In Chillz' BEST season, he put up 13 ppg, 6 rbg and 2 apg in 37 mpg. Marvin equaled those numbers last year in fewer minutes despite being a full THREE years younger than Chillz. Chillz is 25 and Marvin is 22. Marvin is already every bit as good and he is going to be better in the very near future. If you can't see that, well...

Marvin should obviously be traded before Chillz due to the fact he has a lot more value and his performance isn't that much better than Chillz.

You move Marvin + Bibb's contract and you are looking to get a borderline (most likely veteran) all star in return.... Chillz steps up and starts for Marvin and puts up comparable numbers.

If you trade Chillz the most you will get for him is someone of equal value. A good bench player or a sup-par starter.

[Traceman]

He's already as good and he will soon be a better player than Chillz. That said, I am not opposed to packaging Marvin in trade for a superstar (Carmelo Anthony for instance) but there is no way I'm trading him for a guy like Tayshaun Prince.

[Admin]

You wouldn't trade Marvin for Prince? I realize that it's not a no-brainer type of trade but I would definitely have to consider it. Marvin certainly has more potential is a lot younger but Prince is a much more well rounded player and has championship experience.

[Cwell]

what is with these guys thinking Marvin is only worth a superstar when he hasn't done crap in this league and doesn't look like he'll do crap in his career?amazes the hell out of me.

[Admin]

Prince is FAR from a superstar. Statistically speaking they are very even in many categories and Marvin is 6 years younger. What Prince has going for him is better range on his shot, better ability to handle the ball and championship experience.

[Traceman]

Prince "sacrifices his offensive game" but Marvin doesn't? You think JJ, Bibby, Smoove and Horford aren't trying to score? JJ and Bibby are proven 20 ppg scorers in this league and Smoove is a proven 18 ppg scorer. Horford is still developing but he is going to be a solid scorer too. Marvin scoring 15 ppg while starting alongside that group is pretty damn good.

Marvin is "not aggressive" because he is not trying to be the first option on offense but Prince is "sacrificing his offensive game" so that the Pistons can be a better team. This is just another prime example of how players on our team are undervalued while players on other teams are overvalued.

Prince is a role player on DET because that is what he is. He's a very good role player but he is not an elite player in this league. He is a good all around player who is not bad at anything but he is not great at anything either. Marvin's all around game is already comparable to his but Marvin has the skills to get much better. The only thing of signifcance that Prince has on Marvin is experience.

We played DET 4 times last year when those guys were matched up:

Marvin - 50% fg, 14.0 ppg, 5.3 rbg, 1.8 apg, .8 spg

Prince - 44% fg, 13.5 ppg, 6.0 rbg, 3.3 apg, .2 spg

Considering the Marvin is more than SIX years younger, I think he more than held his on in this matchup.

All of the above said, if Marvin's ceiling is what Prince is doing right now in his prime, I will be disappointed. I think Marvin will clearly be the better player as soon as next year.

[Cwell]

I wasn't talking about Prince.I was talking about the guys saying they'll only give him up for a Carmelo Anthony type player.That's a joke.Marvin is not that good a player (if at all) people.

[Admin]

How is Marvin not a "good" player? What do you consider "good"? Who are some players that you consider "good"?

[Dsinner]

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You wouldn't trade Marvin for Prince? I realize that it's not a no-brainer type of trade but I would definitely have to consider it. Marvin certainly has more potential is a lot younger but Prince is a much more well rounded player and has championship experience.

Dit-f'n-to

[Traceman]

I can understand the championship experience angle and we definitely need that. I just think that Marvin is a more talented player and that he will exceed Prince's production in virtually every category as soon as next season. He will shoot a better percentage, he will score more, he will rebound more and he will get just as many (if not more) steals. Prince may get a few more assists but that is the only area I think he will surpass Marvin.

Honestly, if the coaching staff asks Marvin to work on his 3 point shot, I think his game will go to the next level. He has great mechanics on his shot, he just needs to improve his range. I think last year, he worked on becoming more consistent with his midrange J as the behest of the coaching staff and he was much improved. If he puts that same level of focus on the 3 point shot, I think it will improve as well. If he gets stronger and makes it a point of emphasis, I think he will become a very good 3 point shooter. Too many below average shooters (Richard Jefferson and Rip Hamilton immediately come to mind) have become solid 3 point shooters by making it an off season priority. If Marvin adds that element to his game, I think it will take his game to the next level, a level above anywhere Prince has ever been.

[Cwell]

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How is Marvin not a "good" player? What do you consider "good"? Who are some players that you consider "good"?

somebody who can do more than shoot a wide open mid range jumper.Somebody that can dribble on a breakaway without tripping over his feet.Somebody that can drive to the basket and finish without turning it over and taking back more punishment then he gives even from a little guard. For him to have soooo much potential,he sure doesn't show any.Only positives in his game:mid range jumper and Free Throw shooting.for a 2nd overall pick with so called potential out the rear,that sure sticks.3 years and all he has to show is a mid range jumper.

[Admin]

I can't argue with that as long as those "ifs" come to fruition. Marvin has a beautiful shot, gets plenty of elevation, and if you go back and look at his highlight reels on YouTube from his rookie season you can see that he hit a few beautiful shots from downtown. I think a lot of the problem thus far with Marvin has been that he was a post player and has transitioned to playing outside and maybe you are right the coaching staff could have asked him to focus on the mid-range game and that might be where they want him positioned in the offense. I do hope that he focuses on building up his legs and his core this offseason and working on developing 3pt range. He wouldn't be the 1st player to ever go from being a guy that couldn't shoot the 3 consistently to a guy that can.

Because of all those variables, trading for Prince would still have to be considered IMO because while he doesn't have the ceiling that Marvin has, he doesn't have any "ifs" to his game. What you see is what you get and if Marvin doesn't improve the player that he is he will never be as valuable as Prince.

[foeteen14]

again marvin is already better than prince. maybe chillz for prince not marvin. anyone who thinks the pistons wouldn't trade prince for marvin and filler is out of their minds.

[Zone034life]

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Prince "sacrifices his offensive game" but Marvin doesn't? You think JJ, Bibby, Smoove and Horford aren't trying to score? JJ and Bibby are proven 20 ppg scorers in this league and Smoove is a proven 18 ppg scorer. Horford is still developing but he is going to be a solid scorer too. Marvin scoring 15 ppg while starting alongside that group is pretty damn good.

Marvin is "not aggressive" because he is not trying to be the first option on offense but Prince is "sacrificing his offensive game" so that the Pistons can be a better team. This is just another prime example of how players on our team are undervalued while players on other teams are overvalued.

Prince is a role player on DET because that is what he is. He's a very good role player but he is not an elite player in this league. He is a good all around player who is not bad at anything but he is not great at anything either. Marvin's all around game is already comparable to his but Marvin has the skills to get much better. The only thing of signifcance that Prince has on Marvin is experience.

We played DET 4 times last year when those guys were matched up:

Marvin - 50% fg, 14.0 ppg, 5.3 rbg, 1.8 apg, .8 spg

Prince - 44% fg, 13.5 ppg, 6.0 rbg, 3.3 apg, .2 spg

Considering the Marvin is more than SIX years younger, I think he more than held his on in this matchup.

All of the above said, if Marvin's ceiling is what Prince is doing right now in his prime, I will be disappointed. I think Marvin will clearly be the better player as soon as next year.

Are seriously comparing the Hawks starting five to the Pistons? Man thats nonsense if I ever heard it. You bring up Bibby like he played here for the first half and since Marvin was drafted.

Let me help you so you can understand better. You need ROLE players to win championships. Prince is the perfect role player in that he can defend the best perimeter player and can score if called upon. What is Marvins role with this team? A midrange jumper. His defense is far from great and Prince is one of the best on the wing at that.

I'm still waiting on you to address Princes defense vs Marvins defense.

I never said Prince was elite. I said he is a better option than Marvin Williams if this team wants to contend for more than they did last season. You knw Prince is going to play defense if he has an off offensive night. What can Marvin do if his mid range shot is not falling? Give way to childress to the bench thats what.

You are a classic example of a fan who overvalues stats.

[foeteen14]

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i wouldn't trade marvin for prince. marvin's better than prince and he's 7 years younger. you talk about somebody disappearing for long stretches during games. prince to often becomes a complete none factor. i guarantee detroit wish they would have choosen carmelo instead of darko, because they had prince. yeah they won a championship but they would have won 3 possibly 4 with melo. and i guarantee if we offered marvin and zaza for prince, detroit wouldn't hesistate. detroit would do the trade straight up but the numbers don't work.

You write off winning a championship against Kobe and Shaq like its an after thought. He played great defense on Kobe to win that ring also.

Wow so you mean to tell me the pistons want melo now and wish they didn't draft Darko. Man you've got some great insight, i meant hindsight. Did you read the olympic roster? I saw Princes name but missed Marvins. Marvin wouldn't even make the junior olympic team over Gay, Thortan, Durant, Granger, etc.

I not down playing them winning a championship, i'm just saying they would have won if they would have drafted melo instead of darko. and the reason they didn't draft melo was because they had prince, thinking he was going to be this great player. yes, prince is on the olympic squad (the one that hasn't won gold in who knows how long), but JJ isn't (I don't think). is prince better than JJ, i dont think so. they are trying to build a real nba team. you know where you have stars and role players. smalls and big men. if sund called and offered marvin, detroit would say they have to get back us, hang up the phone, bust out laughing with joy, pick the phone back up call sund and say " we hesitantly accept your offer suckers *cough*

They drafted Darko more for they thought he was gonna be a great player more so than they thought Prince would be a star. Joe Dumars constructed that team to not have a star but players that complement each other well. JJ shouldn't be compared to Prince on that team. Micheal Redd is the player they chose instead of JJ. And what do you mean they haven't won the gold in how long? This is Princes first time being on the olympic team along with Kobe, Paul, D.Williams and others.

You disregarding Princes defense is laughable. Along with you comparing a player who plays with 4 other proven scorers in the starting line up numbers with a guy who plays on a squad begging for a number 2 scorer.

no the pistons drafted darko because they figured they could take on a project (darko) because they were set at the SF position. it was obvious melo would be a baller, but they thought they had a young baller at SF, so they took the project.

you used the olympic team to back up your argument, i'm just saying JJ isn't on the team, is prince better than JJ, obviously no. so prince being on the olympic team isn't a valid argument to why we should trade marvin for prince. the olympic team has an agenda. btw i don't think marvin would be a bad addition to the olympic team, they need people to hit mid range jumpers. i still have memories of richard jefferson, hitting the side of the backboard multiple times on open mid range jumpers.