Rate Mike Woodson

[exodus]

I haven't seen that movie.

Hopefully you were being nice

Riiiight LOL

His character suffers from a severe case of multiple personality disorder. Hilarity ensues.

[thefloydian]

All the people who jump to Woody's defense crack me up. I don't know if it's just a need to play devil's advocate or what, but Woody is a horrible coach. The fact that the Hawks are 10-6 doesn't magically change that. Believe it or not, it is possible to get to 10-6 with an idiot for a coach.

[NineOhTheRino]

Look Woodson's coaching ability/performance is surely a viable topic on this board. Having said that however if you use a poll using Intramurial as the lower rung and NBADL as the middle ground that doesn't facilitate a legitimate discussion.

tough crowd. ease up some dude. I promise I'll do better next time.

[Admin]

All the people who jump to Woody's defense crack me up. I don't know if it's just a need to play devil's advocate or what, but Woody is a horrible coach.

So says you and some fans. According to our players and other players/coaches around the league Woody is a good coach.

[coachx]

Yeah, a coach with a career winning percentage of what, 30% is being given 9's and 10's. Yeah, he's a HOF coach alright. The homerism on this board never ceases to amaze me.

I'll put it this way, a REAL HOF coach would actually use a size advantage against a smaller team. You know, actually play a big man that just got 17 boards. Common sense really should dictate this. 9? 10? Wow.

My vote of a "9" was for this season only. I will not hold it against Woody that he was forced to start three 19-22 year old kids with journey-man bench PGs like Lue and AJ to lead them into battle. That would make Red Auberach's winning % look bad too.

I will give him credit for a terrific job this season even with significant injuries.

On the ZaZa thing: Maybe Woody realized that Solo and Horford can hold down the rebounding and that Mo Evan is red hot right now. Therefore, benching ZaZa to go with a smaller lineup would work vs a team such as Washington. Maybe he realized that Horford can not play the PF vs. a versatile PF like Jamison without getting into early foul trouble. Maybe a good coach would realize that Marvin can matchup vs. Jamison at PF since they are equal size. Maybe a good coach realized that the team weakness right now is interior defense and that Solo plays better interior defense then ZaZa. Maybe ZaZa's shoulder is hurt worse then you assume it is ? Maybe just maybe ?

Edited December 2, 2008 by coachx

[Admin]

My vote of a "9" was for this eason only. I will not hold it against Woosy that he was forced to start three 19-22 yearolds with journey-man bench PG like Lue and AJ to lead them into battle. That would make Red Auberach's winning % look bad too.

I will give him credit for a terrific job this season.

On the ZaZa thing: Maybe Woody realized that Solo and Horford can hold down the rebounding and that Mo Evan is red hot right now. Therefor benching ZaZa to go with a smaller lineup would work. Maybe he realized that Horford can not play the PF vs. a versatile PF like Jamison without getting into early foul trouble. Maybe a good coach would realize that Marvin can matchup vs. Jamison at PF since they are equal size. Maybe a good coach realized that the team weakness right now is interior defense and that Solo plays better interior defense then ZaZa. Maybe ZaZa's shoulder is hurt worse then you assume it is ?

Agreed with the first 2 thoughts completely!

On the Zaza front, according to the AJC Zaza is questionable for tomorrow nights game with the shoulder so I think it's safe to assume that the reason he's not playing is because of injury.

[JJFAN4LF]

Honestly, Woodson is an underrated coach in this board. It seems like the Hawks fans over here just like to look at mistakes and point them out as much as possible. Members here focus so much on the bad stuff that the good stuff he does is overlooked.

He makes one bad substitution and about 10 members will say that he sucks. He does a lot of things right. I don't think our record would be 10-6 with a different coach. Another thing that makes him a good coach for our team is that he knows basically every player and Woodson and the players have at least a somewhat good chemistry.

I bet if he didn't shoulder the blame on him so much, some opinions would be different. Also, just because one of our players do bad, doesn't mean that it's Mike Woodson's fault. Members just try to blame everything on him. For example, when Flip had a bad game, people would say that Mike Woodson's offense sucks and he doesn't know how to rotate the ball.

In the end, a good coach gives you what you want at the end of the game and that's the "W" and Mike Woodson has been doing that with an injury plagued team.

Anyway, I'll give him an 8. He's not a Hall of Famer coach but he isn't anywhere near a D-League Coach.

[exodus]

It is pretty ironic that the same people who want to give Woodson credit for the Hawks 10-6 record are the same ones who didn't want to give Woodson any blame for all the losing of the previous 3 years.

You can't have it both ways.

[Admin]

It is pretty ironic that the same people who want to give Woodson credit for the Hawks 10-6 record are the same ones who didn't want to give Woodson any blame for all the losing of the previous 3 years.

You can't have it both ways.

He doesn't deserve all of the credit now nor did he deserve all of the blame before. I'd say that he has more responsibility for our winning record this year than he did for our losing records in prior years.

[exodus]

He doesn't deserve all of the credit now nor did he deserve all of the blame before. I'd say that he has more responsibility for our winning record this year than he did for our losing records in prior years.

That sure is convenient, especially since we have only played 16 games.

If the Hawks go back to losing then i guess Woody won't be to blame but if the Hawks keep winning then he gets the credit. ok

[Admin]

That sure is convenient, especially since we have only played 16 games.

If the Hawks go back to losing then i guess Woody won't be to blame but if the Hawks keep winning then he gets the credit. ok

How is it convenient? Go back and look at what I've said over the past several years about Woody and how he doesn't deserve the blame that he gets.

The only way it would be convenient is under your assumption that he wouldn't be responsible for the blame if we went back to losing and that's a false assumption (at least for me) since we have proven that we can win with this roster and even without Smoove so there's nobody to blame but Woodson if we start losing again unless we were to lose JJ for the season or something crazy like that.

[exodus]

How is it convenient? Go back and look at what I've said over the past several years about Woody and how he doesn't deserve the blame that he gets.

It is convenient because you want to give him credit for a winning record over 16 games but don't want to give him proportionate blame for years of losing that preceded it. You can't have it both ways.

If the record is the measuring stick for a coach then you have to look at his ENTIRE record, not just 16 games of it.

Right now the Hawks are 1st in the league in 3 pt shooting percentage. Do you want to give Woody credit for that? If so then you have to also assign him some blame for last seasons dismal showing from 3.

Personally i think Mark Price has more to do with the Hawks shooting than Woody.

[AHF]

I voted a 6 because I think he is showing more than Developmental League ability at this point. I still have serious issues with Woodson but the best thing he has done in his tenure as coach is not lose his players and keep them playing hard. I think last year was a very poor year on his part but the results this year are undeniable with our rough schedule and Josh Smith's injury issues. He still is a limited coach, IMO, but if the team keeps up this 60% pace then he will deserve some real credit just like he deserved blame for underacheiving last year.

[Admin]

It is convenient because you want to give him credit for a winning record over 16 games but don't want to give him proportionate blame for years of losing that preceded it. You can't have it both ways.

The only that works is if he had the same roster every year. The fact is that this is as close to a complete roster as he's had his entire time as Hawks coach. It's difficult to win without a PG or C and a group of kids who barely understand the fundamentals. I'm certainly not giving him a pass for our past failures but he doesn't deserve nearly as much blame as he's gotten for them.

[h2t]

My vote of a "9" was for this season only. I will not hold it against Woody that he was forced to start three 19-22 year old kids with journey-man bench PGs like Lue and AJ to lead them into battle. That would make Red Auberach's winning % look bad too.

I will give him credit for a terrific job this season even with significant injuries.

On the ZaZa thing: Maybe Woody realized that Solo and Horford can hold down the rebounding and that Mo Evan is red hot right now. Therefore, benching ZaZa to go with a smaller lineup would work vs a team such as Washington. Maybe he realized that Horford can not play the PF vs. a versatile PF like Jamison without getting into early foul trouble. Maybe a good coach would realize that Marvin can matchup vs. Jamison at PF since they are equal size. Maybe a good coach realized that the team weakness right now is interior defense and that Solo plays better interior defense then ZaZa. Maybe ZaZa's shoulder is hurt worse then you assume it is ? Maybe just maybe ?

Good stuff.

[exodus]

The only that works is if he had the same roster every year. The fact is that this is as close to a complete roster as he's had his entire time as Hawks coach.

A coach's job is to get the most out his players regardless of the roster he has to work with. Period.

Just because the rosters have been weaker in the past doesn't mean that Woody didn't have a hand in that losing. Having a bad roster doesn't excuse the coach from blame. That would be NO DIFFERENT than me saying that the current record has everything to do with the players and nothing to do with anything Woody has done.

[Peoriabird]

One thing for sure is that Woodson must be a good salesman because he has Management, the media, and even some fan believing in a number of things such as

1) Iso Joe is a real offense

2) Acie Law can't run an offense but Flip Murray can

3) Two rebounders on the floor at the same time is one too many

4) Only two players should touch the ball on most offensive possessions

5) Josh Smith is not only a point guard but a 3 point specialist also

6) Josh Childress is the best defender on the team with Joe being a close second

7) Al Horford is Moses Malone

8) Zaza is a post player

9) Good defense is defined as the opposing team's point guard living in your painted area

10) The team shouldn't push the ball more because they are better in the half court

11) Solomon Jones and Horford don't belong on the court together

12) Mike Bibby is a point guard and so is flip Murray

13) Shooting contested jump shots are high percentage shots therefore encouraged

14) Driving the lane and drawing fouls is illegal

15) Giving rest to your starters during a game is not a good idea

16) The NBA only allows 5 fouls now therefore players with 2 fouls can't play again until the 3rd quarter

17) The point guard's responsibilities are the bring the ball up and pass it to Joe in the high post or just shoot it with 22 seconds left on the shot clock.

I'm pretty sure others can add to this list but its a start.

[exodus]

2) Acie Law can't run an offense but Flip Murray can

5) Josh Smith is not only a point guard but a 3 point specialist also

8) Zaza is a post player

16) The NBA only allows 5 fouls now therefore players with 2 fouls can't play again until the 3rd quarter

17) The point guard's responsibilities are the bring the ball up and pass it to Joe in the high post or just shoot it with 22 seconds left on the shot clock.

LOL

It is funny how people want to use the Hawks roster as an excuse for Woody's record. Yet before the 07/08 season all of those same people predicted that the Hawks would win more than 37 games. Did they not know who was on the roster?

[Peoriabird]

18) League rules clearly state that the pick and roll can only be run once per contest.

[Traceman]

One thing for sure is that Woodson must be a good salesman because he has Management, the media, and even some fan believing in a number of things such as

1) Iso Joe is a real offense

2) Acie Law can't run an offense but Flip Murray can

3) Two rebounders on the floor at the same time is one too many

4) Only two players should touch the ball on most offensive possessions

5) Josh Smith is not only a point guard but a 3 point specialist also

6) Josh Childress is the best defender on the team with Joe being a close second

7) Al Horford is Moses Malone

8) Zaza is a post player

9) Good defense is defined as the opposing team's point guard living in your painted area

10) The team shouldn't push the ball more because they are better in the half court

11) Solomon Jones and Horford don't belong on the court together

12) Mike Bibby is a point guard and so is flip Murray

13) Shooting contested jump shots are high percentage shots therefore encouraged

14) Driving the lane and drawing fouls is illegal

15) Giving rest to your starters during a game is not a good idea

16) The NBA only allows 5 fouls now therefore players with 2 fouls can't play again until the 3rd quarter

17) The point guard's responsibilities are the bring the ball up and pass it to Joe in the high post or just shoot it with 22 seconds left on the shot clock.

I'm pretty sure others can add to this list but its a start.

Say whatever you want but he has the PLAYERS believing in what he is teaching and they have been winning despite having their 2nd best player for only 3 full games and the 1st quarter of a 4th game.

"Iso Joe" is certainly a significant part of the offense but it is obvious that Woody preaches sharing the ball as the players always comment about it when they do it well (or when they don't do it well) just as Woody does. Sometimes JJ does try to do too much and he does take shots occasionally where he should pass the ball but that is him trying to carry the team rather than him being selfish.

It is RIDICULOUS trying to blame all the team's woes on Woodson. He is not a perfect coach by any stretch but overall, he is doing a good job this year. This roster has flaws and he is doing a pretty good job so far this year of compensating for those flaws.

Bibby is not a good defensive PG. His inability to keep opposing PGs from penetrating has nothing to do with Woody. Bibby couldn't stop penetration at 21 let alone at 31.

We don't have a go to guy in the post and we don't have a guy other than JJ who can draw double teams ANYWHERE on the floor. Though I think Horford, Smoove and even Marvin can get there, none of those guys command a double team in the post.

JJ doesn't get the calls that he should but Marvin, Smoove and Flip are the only guys who have shown the ability to get to put the ball on the floor and get to the FT line (and Marvin is getting there less now that he is shooting more 3's). It would be nice of our guys could get to the line more but it is more about their skills sets than it is about anything Woody is doing wrong. The next time Al puts the ball on the floor and drives to the basket will be the first and Bibby is obviously more comfortable spotting up for the 3 off someone else's penetration than he is penetrating himself (though he does penetrate on occasion).

Woody is opposed to having 2 rebounders on the floor? He has started Zaza and Horford together when they were healthy enough to go when Smoove was out. Unfortunately, they were both banged up and with Smoove out, Woody didn't have a lot of options. He couldn't play Solo and Horford together a lot with Smoove and Zaza out because Morris is the only fall back and he is clearly not ready for extended minutes. Besides, Solo is obviously a better shotblocker than Zaza but he is not exactly Moses Malone on the boards.

Push the ball? We DO push the ball when we get rebounds or steals but rebounding and steals are both down with Smoove out.

Zaza has always been limited in his ability to score around the rim but with his shoulder injury, he is obviously even less effective. Solo is as limited as Zaza in the post anyway and Morris can't guard a statue or rebound over midgets. With Horford hurt and still developing and with Smoove hurt, what exactly is Woody supposed to do to get consistent post scoring?

Bibby is DEFINITELY a PG and a very good one at that. He is not a PG in the J Kidd mold but he is a PG nonetheless. He brings composure to the line up and he gets people in the right spots on the floor. The "Iso Joe" offense as you call it puts up over 98 ppg and currently leads the league in 3 pt shooting. A lot of that is the direct result of Bibby's PG skills.

As for minutes, JJ is playing 39.4 mpg (#4) but Marvin at 35.1 mpg (#50) is the only other starter we have in the top 50 in mpg. Bibby, Smoove and Al are all playing 33 mpg or less. I would hope that JJ can get his minutes down some with Smoove coming back but he is already playing fewer mpg now than he has over the last 6 years, including his last year in PHO.

Woody is no HOFer for sure and he does stuff all the time that I disagree with but he is getting better, he has us winning with a flawed roster and the players buy into what he is teaching. He is doing a very good job overall and supposedly "better" coaches are not doing as well as we are this year with supposedly better teams.

According to you, we have no offense, no "real PG," we play with only one rebounder on the floor at a time, we don't pass the ball, we have no low post game, we don't push the ball when we should, we can't draw fouls, we only shoot contested jumpers, we force up bad shots after 22 seconds have elapsed off the shot clock and yet we STILL have a winning record despite our 2nd best player being out for the majority of the season. Yeah, Woody has been down right terrible.