Rate Mike Woodson

[Dsinner]

If last years roster was so bad how come you didn't predict they would win 37 games or fewer?

Better question...If last years roster was so bad how come they took the champs to 7?

Oh, and you saying Woody is better than Rivers completly overshadows your love for the Dude. :slap1:

[Dsinner]

Just for the record I consider this to be the blame structure for our past failures:

3. Woodson. He has made many mistakes with his rotations, his limited offensive scheme, and with his propensity to run his starters into the ground but until this year he hasn't even had a remotely balanced roster.

Here's what I don't get. Woodson is sill doing the EXACT same things you blamed for his past failures. Only difference is we are even more talented and hitting 3's. So how come he's such a better coach this year even though he's doing the exact same things as in years past? Makes no sense to me. He still sux but because of our record some of you won't admit it.

[exodus]

Better question...If last years roster was so bad how come they took the champs to 7?

Oh, and you saying Woody is better than Rivers completly overshadows your love for the Dude. :slap1:

Huh? I never mentioned Rivers.

As far as the Boston series goes i know what you mean. It isn't like Bibby did anything. He was a complete liability all series. the guys who got us 3 wins against boston are the same guys we had all season.

[Dsinner]

Huh? I never mentioned Rivers.

As far as the Boston series goes i know what you mean. It isn't like Bibby did anything. He was a complete liability all series. the guys who got us 3 wins against boston are the same guys we had all season.

That Rivers comment was directed at Dolf. My bad. We're on the same page here.

[NineOhTheRino]

I feel bad that Woody has to deal Josh Smith and Mike Bibby. Both are coach killers.

[Cwell]

damn I was the first to give him a 1,now I look back at this thread and see 5 more votes lol

[Cwell]

I feel bad that Woody has to deal Josh Smith and Mike Bibby. Both are coach killers.

nah Woody is a player killer,nobody exels under him,not even Joe,he could be alot better.

[exodus]

LOL @ 6 intramural votes. I gave him a 6 but maybe i was too kind.

[tremor]

No, 6 is a good note. If you look at roster - team is currently underachieving. With 12-8 record you can't totally bash Woodson (yet). But I predict two or three more losses in the row (morale really went down lately).

[TroyMcClure]

It's pretty absurd that he gets so much flack when we have the record we do. I don't like the guy but he has to be given some credit for what we've done. If not him . . . . . . who gets the credit?

Uhh... the players.

[tonegully]

i cant take away what we have done so far. But as long as he is the coach we are not going to win a title anytime soon

[TroyMcClure]

i cant take away what we have done so far. But as long as he is the coach we are not going to win a title anytime soon

As long as he coaches, there will be disapointment on some level. Just imagine a really good team like Utah. Now imagine if Woody coached them.

[TroyMcClure]

Better question...If last years roster was so bad how come they took the champs to 7?

Oh, and you saying Woody is better than Rivers completly overshadows your love for the Dude. :slap1:

He said what? He probably loves the Eagles, too! Last year's roster was worse than this one. The subtraction of Childress and the maturation of Horford and Marvin alone make this year's better.

[Vol4ever]

I think Woodson has done a good job. I gave him a 7. You folks that talk about his record should remember he inherited the worst franchise in the NBA at the time.

[crimedog]

What are the things coaches are supposed to do and which of them does Woody do well?

Implement offensive and defensive strategies. Train players to maximize their abilities to play in those systems. Make in game decisions about plays to run. Manage minutes. Motivate the team.

Which of these does Woody do well?

General offensive strategy? No.

General defensive strategy? Yes.

Train players to maximize strengths in those systems? No (even on D, we still have trouble boxing out).

Game time play calling? No.

Manage minutes? No.

Motivate team? No.

A lot is on the players themselves. This team isn't a title contender with Phil Jackson or Pop on the sideline either. Still though, Woody hasn't done a good job maximizing the strengths of his players, hasn't done a good job developing a bench because he screws with minutes too much, and he can't motivate his guys to play for him every night.

Maybe he's lost the team, maybe the guys are too immature to pay attention to him at this point. Even if that is the case though, the team needs to come out and play consistently.

The fact that we're young and not built around a superstar is a factor but since McMillan has come to Portland, they've ALWAYS played his game, they've ALWAYS played hard, and EVERYBODY who can contribute does.

[AHF]

As long as he coaches, there will be disapointment on some level. Just imagine a really good team like Utah. Now imagine if Woody coached them.

His "iso Harping" strategy would be legendary in Utah.

[Diesel]

Which of these does Woody do well?

General offensive strategy? No.

General defensive strategy? Yes.

Train players to maximize strengths in those systems? No (even on D, we still have trouble boxing out).

Game time play calling? No.

Manage minutes? No.

Motivate team? No.

OK let's separate some fact from fiction...

First off, I don't think we have much to go by to determine what kind of coach Woody is.

For let's talk about player development.

do you honestly know what type of player developer Woody is??

Every year, we hear how Woody didn't develop this player and Woody didn't develop that player... but in all honesty... can you really say that the players he "didn't develop" are even NBA calibre??

Where's my Salim Stoudamire contingency??

For the last 3 years, there has been a strong push for Salim to get more playing time... sometimes myself included.. however, Salim is not even in the league right now. He couldn't stick with a team that thrives on shooters.

For all those who says that Woody doesn't develop players, I offer Joe Johnson.

Let's add more honesty here, in Phoenix, Joe was not a player you could give the ball and tell him to go to work. Joe was the guy who stood on the perimeter and waited for the ball to swing his way. On occasion, Joe was the ball handler for one of the most high powered offensive attacks the game has seen. However, here, we brought Joe in and made him the centerpiece of our team. He know finds himself in the ranks with Kobe, Tmac, Wade, and Lebron. He's going to be a perennial allstar. When we paid him 70 million, go back and look at the criticism of JJ. All of it were true. Hell, he was not supposed to be much more than Allan Houston. But now, when you think of the Hawks... You think about trying to stop Joe Johnson.

For all those who says that Woody doesn't develop players, I offer Smoove.

Many coaches wouldn't have taken the time to work with Smoove. He had no offensive game and he was just an athletic guy. However, Woody has been very patient with Smoove. Smoove is now a guy that this team needs. Look at what Bilas said about Smoove in the draft:

"the most likely bust of his draft"

What Bilas looked at was the fact that Smoove had no offense and his defense was poor. And it was unlikely that he would be able to dominate pro players the way he dominated high school players.

Well, Smoove has come a long way. He still has further to go, but you can see him trying to do new things. I suggest that that's coaching.

On the subject of defense... I think we play a very good brand of defense. We don't have a true center yet but we still make it happen.

On the subject of offense, we are not so good.

However,

We are 11-2 at home. We are 17-10 overall. We have 12 games this season that Josh Smith didn't play in and we went 6-6. Who knows what our record could be had Smoove not been hurt? Possibly 23-4. The point is that we are better.. I put some of that on the fact that having Bibby makes a big difference. However, we can't ignore coaching.

[crimedog]

OK let's separate some fact from fiction...

For all those who says that Woody doesn't develop players, I offer Joe Johnson.

Let's add more honesty here, in Phoenix, Joe was not a player you could give the ball and tell him to go to work. Joe was the guy who stood on the perimeter and waited for the ball to swing his way...

For all those who says that Woody doesn't develop players, I offer Smoove.

Many coaches wouldn't have taken the time to work with Smoove. He had no offensive game and he was just an athletic guy. However, Woody has been very patient with Smoove. Smoove is now a guy that this team needs. Look at what Bilas said about Smoove in the draft...

On the subject of defense... I think we play a very good brand of defense. We don't have a true center yet but we still make it happen.

On the subject of offense, we are not so good.

However,

We are 11-2 at home. We are 17-10 overall. We have 12 games this season that Josh Smith didn't play in and we went 6-6. Who knows what our record could be had Smoove not been hurt? Possibly 23-4. The point is that we are better.. I put some of that on the fact that having Bibby makes a big difference. However, we can't ignore coaching.

Just for clarification, I didn't say Woody couldn't develop players. I said that the players' haven't maximized their strengths for the systems he runs, largely offense but certain elements of defense, such as boxing out, are also poor.

As far as Woody "developing" Joe Johnson. We didn't pay him $14m a year to have him catch and shoot.

As far as Josh Smith, most coaches would have had to have taken the time to work with him because thats their job. Josh was a projected lotto pick, people thought that we might take him with the 6. He "slid" to 17. He's developed a lot, he's put in a lot of work, but he also still lacks fundamentals. I'll give Woody credit for keeping him focused to a point, for helping make sure that he channeled that athletic ability into basketball. On the other hand, if you want to give Woody credit for that, take into account that Josh still has problems with ball-handling, shooting, boxing out (although he's getting better abou that), and turning it over. He never posted up until he met up with the Dream.

I think we play good D too, I gave him credit for that.

Bottom line is that we have all first rounders in our starting five including 3 top 3 picks. This team should be good. Our two highest paid players came from other teams and our best "home-grown" player gets lambasted after every game for taking bad shots, making bad passes, and generally not having a high bball IQ.

Woody does some things well. I think he does care about his job and the guys. He also does some things poorly. I would have though Solo was a bust, then Woody was forced to play him and he looked very good for a month. Now he hasn't played again. Why? That's what I mean by developing or managing minutes. Solo was as productive, if not moreso, than Zaza for that month Josh was out. If we lose Zaza this summer, we might need Solo but if he isn't ready to go because Woody feels more comfortable with Zaza even though Solo, at worst, played even with him - thats on Woody.

[Georgiaboi87]

I think Woodson has done a good job. I gave him a 7. You folks that talk about his record should remember he inherited the worst franchise in the NBA at the time.

Thats True

[macdaddy]

Isn't that a good judge of coaching to see what the coach can do with raw talent? Marvin and Smoove have been in the league 4-5 years and they are just now starting to not look clueless on offense. That combined with JJ and Bibby and Flip knowing what to do with the ball most of the time is what as gotten us over the hump from losing close games to winning close games. Edit: That sounds like I don't give Woody credit. I do. I've been impressed lately with some of our offensive play and I credit him for that. Its been a long time coming though.

These guys have all developed under Woodson but we're talking about lottery pick talent. You could say BK made some bad choices but is it likely that Marvin, Smoove, Horford, Acie are all slow learners of the nba game on offense?

Edited December 23, 2008 by macdaddy