Rate Mike Woodson

[Packfill]

Say whatever you want but he has the PLAYERS believing in what he is teaching and they have been winning despite having their 2nd best player for only 3 full games and the 1st quarter of a 4th game.

"Iso Joe" is certainly a significant part of the offense but it is obvious that Woody preaches sharing the ball as the players always comment about it when they do it well (or when they don't do it well) just as Woody does. Sometimes JJ does try to do too much and he does take shots occasionally where he should pass the ball but that is him trying to carry the team rather than him being selfish.

It is RIDICULOUS trying to blame all the team's woes on Woodson. He is not a perfect coach by any stretch but overall, he is doing a good job this year. This roster has flaws and he is doing a pretty good job so far this year of compensating for those flaws.

Bibby is not a good defensive PG. His inability to keep opposing PGs from penetrating has nothing to do with Woody. Bibby couldn't stop penetration at 21 let alone at 31.

We don't have a go to guy in the post and we don't have a guy other than JJ who can draw double teams ANYWHERE on the floor. Though I think Horford, Smoove and even Marvin can get there, none of those guys command a double team in the post.

JJ doesn't get the calls that he should but Marvin, Smoove and Flip are the only guys who have shown the ability to get to put the ball on the floor and get to the FT line (and Marvin is getting there less now that he is shooting more 3's). It would be nice of our guys could get to the line more but it is more about their skills sets than it is about anything Woody is doing wrong. The next time Al puts the ball on the floor and drives to the basket will be the first and Bibby is obviously more comfortable spotting up for the 3 off someone else's penetration than he is penetrating himself (though he does penetrate on occasion).

Woody is opposed to having 2 rebounders on the floor? He has started Zaza and Horford together when they were healthy enough to go when Smoove was out. Unfortunately, they were both banged up and with Smoove out, Woody didn't have a lot of options. He couldn't play Solo and Horford together a lot with Smoove and Zaza out because Morris is the only fall back and he is clearly not ready for extended minutes. Besides, Solo is obviously a better shotblocker than Zaza but he is not exactly Moses Malone on the boards.

Push the ball? We DO push the ball when we get rebounds or steals but rebounding and steals are both down with Smoove out.

Zaza has always been limited in his ability to score around the rim but with his shoulder injury, he is obviously even less effective. Solo is as limited as Zaza in the post anyway and Morris can't guard a statue or rebound over midgets. With Horford hurt and still developing and with Smoove hurt, what exactly is Woody supposed to do to get consistent post scoring?

Bibby is DEFINITELY a PG and a very good one at that. He is not a PG in the J Kidd mold but he is a PG nonetheless. He brings composure to the line up and he gets people in the right spots on the floor. The "Iso Joe" offense as you call it puts up over 98 ppg and currently leads the league in 3 pt shooting. A lot of that is the direct result of Bibby's PG skills.

As for minutes, JJ is playing 39.4 mpg (#4) but Marvin at 35.1 mpg (#50) is the only other starter we have in the top 50 in mpg. Bibby, Smoove and Al are all playing 33 mpg or less. I would hope that JJ can get his minutes down some with Smoove coming back but he is already playing fewer mpg now than he has over the last 6 years, including his last year in PHO.

Woody is no HOFer for sure and he does stuff all the time that I disagree with but he is getting better, he has us winning with a flawed roster and the players buy into what he is teaching. He is doing a very good job overall and supposedly "better" coaches are not doing as well as we are this year with supposedly better teams.

According to you, we have no offense, no "real PG," we play with only one rebounder on the floor at a time, we don't pass the ball, we have no low post game, we don't push the ball when we should, we can't draw fouls, we only shoot contested jumpers, we force up bad shots after 22 seconds have elapsed off the shot clock and yet we STILL have a winning record despite our 2nd best player being out for the majority of the season. Yeah, Woody has been down right terrible.

Woody is a caretaker. If the Hawks are ever going to be something special they are going to have to replace Woody or sign LBJ.

[AHF]

The only that works is if he had the same roster every year. The fact is that this is as close to a complete roster as he's had his entire time as Hawks coach. It's difficult to win without a PG or C and a group of kids who barely understand the fundamentals. I'm certainly not giving him a pass for our past failures but he doesn't deserve nearly as much blame as he's gotten for them.

Isn't it obvious that Woodson should be held responsible for the performance of the team every year based on who is on the roster?

Winning 20 or 40 games might be a great result for one group of players and a disasterous performance for a different roster.

Every year the coach can be evaluated and it has to be against what reasonable expectations are for that roster than season.

[Traceman]

Isn't it obvious that Woodson should be held responsible for the performance of the team every year based on who is on the roster?

Winning 20 or 40 games might be a great result for one group of players and a disasterous performance for a different roster.

Every year the coach can be evaluated and it has to be against what reasonable expectations are for that roster than season.

Exactly! Larry Brown led the Pistons to the NBA title when he had the talent but in NY, he looked like one of the worst coaches ever. It has to be a year by year evaluation based on the talent the coach has for that particular year.

[Admin]

Isn't it obvious that Woodson should be held responsible for the performance of the team every year based on who is on the roster?

It's obvious to some of us, yes ... but it's too easy and convenient for ex and the gang to blame Woody rather than blaming the players. I wish I could blame my boss for any of my failures.

Winning 20 or 40 games might be a great result for one group of players and a disastrous performance for a different roster.

Every year the coach can be evaluated and it has to be against what reasonable expectations are for that roster than season.

100% agree! I look at it like this, we were a 37 win team last year (which apparently was Woody's fault) and we're on pace to win 44-45 games right now (although I think 50 is reasonable with Smoove) so if we assume that it was Woody that has held us back these prior years then what has changed this year to where he's not able to hold us back? Is it more likely that Woody all of the sudden became a much better coach or was it our FA signings and young player maturation that's really the difference? I tend to think that Woody is for the most part the same coach as he has been but what do I know.

[Admin]

Exactly! Larry Brown led the Pistons to the NBA title when he had the talent but in NY, he looked like one of the worst coaches ever. It has to be a year by year evaluation based on the talent the coach has for that particular year.

And I do believe that the Bobcats have won fewer games at this point in the season than they did last year and it would be difficult to argue that they aren't a more talented team with some of their young additions like DJ Augustin.

[Packfill]

It's obvious to some of us, yes ... but it's too easy and convenient for ex and the gang to blame Woody rather than blaming the players. I wish I could blame my boss for any of my failures.

100% agree! I look at it like this, we were a 37 win team last year (which apparently was Woody's fault) and we're on pace to win 44-45 games right now (although I think 50 is reasonable with Smoove) so if we assume that it was Woody that has held us back these prior years then what has changed this year to where he's not able to hold us back? Is it more likely that Woody all of the sudden became a much better coach or was it our FA signings and young player maturation that's really the difference? I tend to think that Woody is for the most part the same coach as he has been but what do I know.

Isn't the real questions whether a coach like Jerry Sloan would get more out of the Hawks then Woody? Obviously a great roster will lead to wins, regardless of the coach, but some coaches are able to maximize a teams potential. The GM plays an important role in this as well as he needs to get players that fit well together, fit the system of the coach or find a coach that can work with what the team has. BK certaintly didn't do Woody any favors.

[exodus]

And I do believe that the Bobcats have won fewer games at this point in the season than they did last year and it would be difficult to argue that they aren't a more talented team with some of their young additions like DJ Augustin.

You do realize they have been without their leading scorer, right? JRich just came back from his injury.

[Admin]

Isn't the real questions whether a coach like Jerry Sloan would get more out of the Hawks then Woody? Obviously a great roster will lead to wins, regardless of the coach, but some coaches are able to maximize a teams potential. The GM plays an important role in this as well as he needs to get players that fit well together, fit the system of the coach or find a coach that can work with what the team has. BK certaintly didn't do Woody any favors.

Yes we'd certainly be better off with a guy like Sloan or Phil Jackson but what team wouldn't? Woody may or not be capable of getting us a championship even if he has the right players but I do believe that he's a better coach than Doc Rivers and we've seen what getting a few star players and quality assistant coaches can do for a team based on the Celtics success last year. I guarantee that if you got us 1 more JJ level player and a quality assistant head coach to run the offense and then you let Woody manage the players and the defensive scheme that we could win a championship.

[exodus]

It's obvious to some of us, yes ... but it's too easy and convenient for ex and the gang to blame Woody rather than blaming the players. I wish I could blame my boss for any of my failures.

That is just plain stupid. You blame the players when the team loses but if they win it is the coach who gets the credit.right.

I didn't blame Woody for the poor record just like i don't give him credit for the record now. I blame him for his poor coaching moves.

You are the one showing a clear bias by giving Woody credit for a good record for 16 games while refusing to give him blame for all of last season where they clearly underachieved.

If last years roster was so bad how come you didn't predict they would win 37 games or fewer?

[Admin]

You do realize they have been without their leading scorer, right? JRich just came back from his injury.

Yes I realize that but they've had Augustin step in and fill the scoring void and they've still won fewer games than last season at this point. I'm not certain of it but I want to say that they didn't have Gerald Wallace early last season which makes this seasons record look even worse if that's the case.

But I'm sure you'd rather have Larry Brown even though he's proven that he can't win without a lineup filled with veteran star players.

[exodus]

Yes I realize that but they've had Augustin step in and fill the scoring void and they've still won fewer games than last season at this point. I'm not certain of it but I want to say that they didn't have Gerald Wallace early last season which makes this seasons record look even worse if that's the case.

But I'm sure you'd rather have Larry Brown even though he's proven that he can't win without a lineup filled with veteran star players.

LOL what a bunch of BS. You think a rookie makes up for the loss of the leading scorer? This from the same guy who over and over mentions the Hawks record WITHOUT JOSH SMITH, as if injuries only matter when they happen to our team.

[Admin]

That is just plain stupid. You blame the players when the team loses but if they win it is the coach who gets the credit.right.

I didn't blame Woody for the poor record just like i don't give him credit for the record now. I blame him for his poor coaching moves.

You are the one showing a clear bias by giving Woody credit for a good record for 16 games while refusing to give him blame for all of last season where they clearly underachieved.

Do you purposely try and make stuff up? Let me repeat again for you that Woody deserves HIS SHARE of the blame for our past failures but not nearly as much as you and others like to give him.

Just for the record I consider this to be the blame structure for our past failures:

1. Billy Knight. Even though he assembled some talented pieces he was unable to surround the kids with quality veterans and we went 3.5 years without a PG or C.

2. The players. It's to be expected that a roster that was top heavy in 19-21 year old kids who could barely understand the fundamentals would make a lot of mistakes but they are still to blame for their performance. I know this is a foreign concept to some of you but there is a thing called personal accountability.

3. Woodson. He has made many mistakes with his rotations, his limited offensive scheme, and with his propensity to run his starters into the ground but until this year he hasn't even had a remotely balanced roster.

In the future please try and not put words into my mouth when you need to make a point.

[Admin]

LOL what a bunch of BS. You think a rookie makes up for the loss of the leading scorer? This from the same guy who over and over mentions the Hawks record WITHOUT JOSH SMITH, as if injuries only matter when they happen to our team.

Oh yes it's a bunch of BS indeed. If Richardson averages x amount of points and gets injured and then Augustin fills in for him and matches that x amount of points I can clearly see why you'd have a hard time comprehending that x = x in terms of scoring.

Edit - I was wrong about Augustin filling the scoring void for the Bobcats. As it turns out Jason Richardson has averaged 19.1 points this season and in the 4 games that Augustin started he only averaged 19.0. That tenth of a point is probably the reason why they've lost games.

[High5]

I have never seen a decent argument for why Woodson is a good coach.

[exodus]

Oh yes it's a bunch of BS indeed. If Richardson averages x amount of points and gets injured and then Augustin fills in for him and matches that x amount of points I can clearly see why you'd have a hard time comprehending that x = x in terms of scoring.

First of all there is more to basketball than scoring. But if you want to talk scoring DJ is averaging 12 ppg. Last year JRich averaged 21.8 ppg.

Secondly JRich is a 2. DJ is a pg. You do know that those are two different positions, right?

It is hilarious about how you make such a big deal about Smith's injury but totally dismiss an injury to a player on another team.

[Admin]

First of all there is more to basketball than scoring. But if you want to talk scoring DJ is averaging 12 ppg. Last year JRich averaged 21.8 ppg.

Secondly JRich is a 2. DJ is a pg. You do know that those are two different positions, right?

It is hilarious about how you make such a big deal about Smith's injury but totally dismiss an injury to a player on another team.

Sorry I had to edit my post above.

I was wrong about Augustin filling the scoring void for the Bobcats. As it turns out Jason Richardson has averaged 19.1 points this season and in the 4 games that Augustin started he only averaged 19.0. That tenth of a point is probably the reason why they've lost games.

Oh and yes I'm aware that there is more to basketball than scoring. I was simply responding to your excuse that they lost their leading scorer and I simply showed you how Augustin matched within a tenth of a point what Richardson did as a scorer. If you'd like to come up with another excuse as to why they have lost more games then fine, but your "leading scorer" argument doesn't work here.

[exodus]

Sorry I had to edit my post above.

I was wrong about Augustin filling the scoring void for the Bobcats. As it turns out Jason Richardson has averaged 19.1 points this season and in the 4 games that Augustin started he only averaged 19.0. That tenth of a point is probably the reason why they've lost games.

Oh and yes I'm aware that there is more to basketball than scoring. I was simply responding to your excuse that they lost their leading scorer and I simply showed you how Augustin matched within a tenth of a point what Richardson did as a scorer. If you'd like to come up with another excuse as to why they have lost more games then fine, but your "leading scorer" argument doesn't work here.

JJ is our leading scorer but if we lost him it would be more than just scoring we would lose. Horford had a couple of big scoring games. Does that mean he could replace JJ?

Any team that loses their leading scorer will be hurt by it. That is just basic common sense.

They start a rookie out of position and you think that replaces JRich? They had to start a mini-me backcourt out of desperation, which left them extremely small trying to defend other backcourts.

Not to mention that JRich missed more than the 4 games Augustine started.

[Admin]

JJ is our leading scorer but if we lost him it would be more than just scoring we would lose. Horford had a couple of big scoring games. Does that mean he could replace JJ?

Any team that loses their leading scorer will be hurt by it. That is just basic common sense.

They start a rookie out of position and you think that replaces JRich? They had to start a mini-me backcourt out of desperation, which left them extremely small trying to defend other backcourts.

Not to mention that JRich missed more than the 4 games Augustine started.

Again, you said they lost their LEADING SCORER. You didn't say they lost their best player or their best whatever. You said scorer. I showed how the scoring was replaced. Seems pretty simple but maybe that's more difficult to understand than I thought.

[exodus]

Again, you said they lost their LEADING SCORER. You didn't say they lost their best player or their best whatever. You said scorer. I showed how the scoring was replaced. Seems pretty simple but maybe that's more difficult to understand than I thought.

So any leading scorer does nothing else but score? ok

I am sure the Bobcats starting 2 6 footers in the backcourt didn't hurt their chances at all.

[Packfill]

Yes we'd certainly be better off with a guy like Sloan or Phil Jackson but what team wouldn't? Woody may or not be capable of getting us a championship even if he has the right players but I do believe that he's a better coach than Doc Rivers and we've seen what getting a few star players and quality assistant coaches can do for a team based on the Celtics success last year. I guarantee that if you got us 1 more JJ level player and a quality assistant head coach to run the offense and then you let Woody manage the players and the defensive scheme that we could win a championship.

Not that he is the best coach, but Doc Rivers won coach of the year with a decidedly non-star filled roster in Orlando. He was also smart enough (or listened to someone smart enough) to hire a good assistant coach.

Woody's greatest accomplishment seems to be stating the obvious after a win or loss.

The team has come out flat to start a number of games this season and I think some of that has to do with the coaching staff not getting the team ready to play.

There is no reason to accept mediocrity.