The reason the Hawks continue to struggle

[NineOhTheRino]

I hope this isn't considered :beathorse:

Edited December 11, 2008 by NineOhTheRino

[mrhonline]

Well, I'm big on the "no center" thing, but lately the struggles have been because of the simplistic offense. I voted "iso Joe."

[DrReality]

HAWKS REPORT

By Sekou Smith

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Thursday, December 11, 2008

> TIME TO TIGHTEN UP: Now that his team is finally all grown up in the experience department, Hawks coach Mike Woodson insists that they do the same with their actions on the court.

He’s seen too much inattention to detail lately, and it’s cost his team during this road trip, where they’ve dropped two games in the late stages because they couldn’t maintain their focus long enough to finish off the Dallas and Houston.

“It’s like [Tuesday night in Houston], Josh Smith hit that 3-pointer to put us up eight and everybody is so happy and they just stop playing,” Woodson said. “And you saw the stretch to the end the game —- it was crazy. Instead of playing the way we did to get back in the game, we just went crazy. And it’s all related to the dumb stuff we’re doing.

“We’ve got to be mentally tougher in terms of doing the things we’re supposed to do. Because when I can watch film and we come out of a timeout and don’t execute the things we’ve been taught to do, I know we’ve had some slippage.”

> READY FOR WHATEVER: Both the Hawks and Spurs played games that went down to the wire Tuesday night, the Hawks losing to the Rockets and the Spurs knocking off the Mavericks in double overtime in Dallas.

The Spurs being the oldest team in the league and the Hawks being the sixth youngest would seem to give the Hawks an edge in the bounce-back energy department.

But that’s only in theory. And Woodson doesn’t subscribe to that theory. Not with the championship banners hanging over the team’s heads at the AT&T Center Wednesday night.

“This team has won enough titles and been in enough tough situations that nothing, and I mean nothing, fazes them,” Woodson said.

> ANOTHER SLOW START: The Hawks got off to their second straight slow start Wednesday night, going down 20-8 with 3:33 to play in the first quarter behind a 28 percent (4-for-14) shooting performance.

They managed just 16 points in the first quarter against the Rockets Tuesday night. The Hawks trailed by as many as 13 points in the first quarter both nights.

[NineOhTheRino]

HAWKS REPORT

By Sekou Smith

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Thursday, December 11, 2008

> TIME TO TIGHTEN UP: Now that his team is finally all grown up in the experience department, Hawks coach Mike Woodson insists that they do the same with their actions on the court.

He’s seen too much inattention to detail lately, and it’s cost his team during this road trip, where they’ve dropped two games in the late stages because they couldn’t maintain their focus long enough to finish off the Dallas and Houston.

“It’s like [Tuesday night in Houston], Josh Smith hit that 3-pointer to put us up eight and everybody is so happy and they just stop playing,” Woodson said. “And you saw the stretch to the end the game —- it was crazy. Instead of playing the way we did to get back in the game, we just went crazy. And it’s all related to the dumb stuff we’re doing.

“We’ve got to be mentally tougher in terms of doing the things we’re supposed to do. Because when I can watch film and we come out of a timeout and don’t execute the things we’ve been taught to do, I know we’ve had some slippage.”

> READY FOR WHATEVER: Both the Hawks and Spurs played games that went down to the wire Tuesday night, the Hawks losing to the Rockets and the Spurs knocking off the Mavericks in double overtime in Dallas.

The Spurs being the oldest team in the league and the Hawks being the sixth youngest would seem to give the Hawks an edge in the bounce-back energy department.

But that’s only in theory. And Woodson doesn’t subscribe to that theory. Not with the championship banners hanging over the team’s heads at the AT&T Center Wednesday night.

“This team has won enough titles and been in enough tough situations that nothing, and I mean nothing, fazes them,” Woodson said.

> ANOTHER SLOW START: The Hawks got off to their second straight slow start Wednesday night, going down 20-8 with 3:33 to play in the first quarter behind a 28 percent (4-for-14) shooting performance.

They managed just 16 points in the first quarter against the Rockets Tuesday night. The Hawks trailed by as many as 13 points in the first quarter both nights.

Woody always says the right things but damn if his teams ever do the right things consistently

[Dsinner]

At least 3 of those options, not including "Woody", should be credited to Woody.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Dsinner

[Gray Mule]

One thing I will give Woody credit for in the last game.

Hawks came out in a simi sleepwalk mode. They were hitting few shots, unlike

the night before, when they couldn't score at all and couldn't play a lick of defense.

Finding themselves once again buried early in the second quarter, all five starters

found themselves huddled together on the bench while the second unit took to

the floor. And, the second unit stayed on the floor for a while and let all five starters

cool their taters on the bench.

Apparently, someone finally thought, "Hey! Why aren't we playing in this game? What's

going on? Oh yeah, we weren't playing when we were on the floor, that's why."

One small thing, maybe. But, for this one small thing, I say "Way to go Woody!"

[Gray Mule]

As for the vote, I choose - - All of the above.

I didn't see THAT option in the poll.

[Plastic Man]

Where is the "lack of intensity" option? It's not just Marvin...

[Diesel]

I think our problem is more complex than any one thing.

I don't think Woody is totally the problem. I mean, you still have to look at the pieces he has to work with.

He has nobody willing to go inside and get the hard points.

We say Iso Joe is a problem, but with the personnel we have, Joe is our distributor and scorer. Teams key off of Joe defensively which allows him to get the ball to the other scorers. If we traded Bibby for Kidd today, would it solve our problem?? We'd be similar to NJ when they had Kidd and Vince...Offensively, we'd be sound, but we'd lose something. I don't think Iso Joe is a long term answer, but the truth is:

We have a PF who doesn't want to play inside.

We have a C who don't have the skill to play inside.

We have a Sf who doesn't have the balls to do much more than be a standstill shooter.

What makes Flip and Mo different than the rest of the cast is that Flip and Mo are agressive players. Their shooting actually takes some pressure off of Joe. So does Bibby... But if you live by the three, you die by it.

I don't think a different coach would get much better results than Woody is getting. I think we have some personnel issues.

Of our three key 2ndary players, who should be moved.

They all have value.

We like Horf but really what has he brought?

We love Smoove, but if Smoove is being a big a-- baby and doing what he wants instead of what we need, what good is he?

Some of us like Marvin, but I don't begin to understand what he contributes when we are in need.

Here's a thought...

Give this project 5 more games. After Dec. 15, the landscape will be different FA wise.

[NineOhTheRino]

I think our problem is more complex than any one thing.

I don't think Woody is totally the problem. I mean, you still have to look at the pieces he has to work with.

He has nobody willing to go inside and get the hard points.

We say Iso Joe is a problem, but with the personnel we have, Joe is our distributor and scorer. Teams key off of Joe defensively which allows him to get the ball to the other scorers. If we traded Bibby for Kidd today, would it solve our problem?? We'd be similar to NJ when they had Kidd and Vince...Offensively, we'd be sound, but we'd lose something. I don't think Iso Joe is a long term answer, but the truth is:

We have a PF who doesn't want to play inside.

We have a C who don't have the skill to play inside.

We have a Sf who doesn't have the balls to do much more than be a standstill shooter.

What makes Flip and Mo different than the rest of the cast is that Flip and Mo are agressive players. Their shooting actually takes some pressure off of Joe. So does Bibby... But if you live by the three, you die by it.

I don't think a different coach would get much better results than Woody is getting. I think we have some personnel issues.

Of our three key 2ndary players, who should be moved.

They all have value.

We like Horf but really what has he brought?

We love Smoove, but if Smoove is being a big a-- baby and doing what he wants instead of what we need, what good is he?

Some of us like Marvin, but I don't begin to understand what he contributes when we are in need.

Here's a thought...

Give this project 5 more games. After Dec. 15, the landscape will be different FA wise.

So you're in favor of another rebuilding job?

[crimedog]

When guys are playing their roles on D and the offense is free-flowing, we are a good team.

When guys aren't playing their roles on D and the offense denegrates into that simplistic "iso Joe" that it gets into, things fall apart.

Sometimes the two turn into a feedback loop - guys get annoyed that their only shot options come off of doubles to Joe so they stop playing as hard OR someone misses an assignment and we decide to "simplify" things on offense so that people concentrate on D which leads to the stale "iso Joe" offense and disengages the other guys leading to less effort on D.

[ATLSmith]

I'm voting for a new center.

The Hawks were out rebounded against the Spurs: 27 to 52.

Having an established center would allow our forwards to play D a little further out. This would allow them to grab the shots that bounce far off the basket. The Spurs were picking those up all night long.

Also, Matt Bonner had 13 rebounds and Tim Duncan had 11. Our two centers had 7 and 5.

Against Houston the Hawks had 40 rebounds, the Rockets had 57. Okay, I know they have Yao, but still.

Dallas: 48 to 39 rebounds.

I know that 3 games don't make a complete argument. Just wanted to point out that we were out rebounded in all 3 of these losses.

[macdaddy]

This may not be a championship team but it has a lot of talent. And despite being young we have a lot of experience. Its not a typical team with a passing PG and a 7 foot center but what teams are typical that way? If you watch the games you can see that we arent' losing because of lack of talent or inability to defend. We lose because the players continue to ignore the coach and play lazy on the offensive end.

Either they are ignoring the coach or the coach's offensive plan sucks. Someone please tell me what other explanation there is. We have guys that can shoot and distribute, we have rebounders at every position except point, we have guys who are quick and can get to the basket.

The starters obviously don't give a s??? about offensive execution or what Woody is telling them to do. I do put blame on the players, but are you going to fire the team or get someone in here who will make them play? I'm tired of quotes from Woody: 'did you see how we played so badly and lost our focus - its crazy'. It is crazy. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

[exodus]

I'm voting for a new center.

The Hawks were out rebounded against the Spurs: 27 to 52.

Having an established center would allow our forwards to play D a little further out. This would allow them to grab the shots that bounce far off the basket. The Spurs were picking those up all night long.

Also, Matt Bonner had 13 rebounds and Tim Duncan had 11. Our two centers had 7 and 5.

Against Houston the Hawks had 40 rebounds, the Rockets had 57. Okay, I know they have Yao, but still.

Dallas: 48 to 39 rebounds.

I know that 3 games don't make a complete argument. Just wanted to point out that we were out rebounded in all 3 of these losses.

The Hawks have never boxed out well. They also make a lot of dumb turnovers. Those two things killed the Hawks on this trip and they point right back to coaching.

[HalfHawk]

We're stock loaded with talent, but we're missing a quality something that can put those parts into a smooth running engine??

Oh yeah... Were missing a good coach..

[Cwell]

100% woody, worst coach ever