Joe & Smoove = Better without Marvin?

[AtLaS]

I wouldn't say they are better without marv but they haven't missed a step on either end of the floor. I'm assuming Joe has been playing the 3 on D and 2 on O. If that is the case he is simply a better 3 than Marv. Joe has played about 43 minutes per contest the past 3 games and that leaves little room for minutes for a backup. The only clear advantage I see without Marv is the overall quickness of the team. This team would be scary if you would add a stud SG.

Bibby

Stud 2

Joe

JS

Al

Of course Joe is a better SF than Marvin. JJ would be just as good if he started at SF since he has the size to do so.

The reason we haven't had a dropoff is because JJ is suddenly able to hit his jumpshots and Smith is rebounding. If Marvin were on the floor the past 2 games we would've done even better.

Now, I do consider Marvin our least important starter (that's not a knock, it's like saying Prince was the least important starter for Detroits championship team) but he's still a key piece to the puzzle and has helped us win numerous games. This season he's actually hit many clutch shots as well.

[AHF]

But i thought it was irrelevant what Smith did with Marvin playing? I guess you changed your tune.

So are you trying to say that Marvin's absence makes Smith get nearly 4 more rebounds per game? Why is that? Is it because Marvin is such a dominant rebounder or is it because Smith spends more time away from the basket playing the 3?

Diesel is clearly arguing that Marin is such a dominant rebounder that Smith can't rebound effectively when Marvin plays and sucks up so many of the available rebounds.

[exodus]

Diesel is clearly arguing that Marin is such a dominant rebounder that Smith can't rebound effectively when Marvin plays and sucks up so many of the available rebounds.

That would be the logical explanation as to why Smith gets 50% more rebounds when Marvin is out (assuming of course the sample size is statistically significant). However i am curious to hear Diesel's explanation.

[mrhonline]

We play Miami in our second to last game of the season at home. Shaping up to be one of the most important regular season games in a long, long time. I know every game is important, but it would be exciting if it comes down to us having home court or not!

Yeah, I'm thinking about coming down from the mountain(s) to get to that game. It's during the kids' spring break, and we aren't vacationing this year, so...

[crimedog]

Of course Joe is a better SF than Marvin. JJ would be just as good if he started at SF since he has the size to do so.

The reason we haven't had a dropoff is because JJ is suddenly able to hit his jumpshots and Smith is rebounding. If Marvin were on the floor the past 2 games we would've done even better.

Now, I do consider Marvin our least important starter (that's not a knock, it's like saying Prince was the least important starter for Detroits championship team) but he's still a key piece to the puzzle and has helped us win numerous games. This season he's actually hit many clutch shots as well.

Exactly. Saying that the lineup with the "stud 2" would be better is probably true, on the other hand we'd be better with a "stud 3" as well.

Marv is probably a better defender than Mo/Flip as well and a better shooter than Mo/Flip as well. Its not like he's a ball dominant player either, the biggest criticisms he gets are for his seeming content-ness with being a role player which means he could very well do what those guys have done the past couple of games, just better.

Marv fits in well with Smith and Johnson providing they are both playing well like they are now. They weren't for a long time but Joe has a little bit of history with shooting poorly and then lighting it up for the stretch run and Josh actually has that as well in previous seasons.

[mrhonline]

Wow, that high road you're on.. does it stretch to Chillzville? I would call you a hypocrite, but there's no need.

Childress isn't a Hawk.

Personally never cared for his game, but I rooted for him anyway. (I feel the same way about Bibby). And the only reason I bring up Childress is because it shows YOUR HYPOCRISY. But you knew that already, huh?

[Peoriabird]

That would be the logical explanation as to why Smith gets 50% more rebounds when Marvin is out (assuming of course the sample size is statistically significant). However i am curious to hear Diesel's explanation.

I think that we are looking at this all wrong fellas! We should be looking at the team's rebounding numbers with each player out of the line up to see the overall effect on the team's performance! Who cares what happens to individual stats?

[mrhonline]

No

You sure do ask some dumb questions.

That was terrific. Thanks for the chuckle.

[Popeye]

Sorry *ss Pacers are 9-4 without Granger this year.. He is an allstar and is averaging 25 pts 5 reb....and 3 assist.

They are 19-34 with him in the lineup...

How is that possible?

[FrankWhite]

Sorry *ss Pacers are 9-4 without Granger this year.. He is an allstar and is averaging 25 pts 5 reb....and 3 assist.

They are 19-34 with him in the lineup...

How is that possible?

Granger is a cancer on and off the court, just like Marvin Williams!

[DrReality]

When was the last time D. was rational in the use of his logic????

[DrReality]

Playing JJ at the 3 gives us more options to attack and Ihope Woody has learned something from this to change up the pace of games.

[Diesel]

Granger is a cancer on and off the court, just like Marvin Williams!

You know it's very disrespectful to use Marvin Williams and Granger in the same sentence.... unless you're saying "The Hawks could have traded down 16 spots and gotten Danny Granger instead of taking on sorry Marvin Williams."

[exodus]

Both guy's game elevate when Marvin is not there.

I think a big part is Joe at the Sf.

He has a great advantage over Sfs and if he's switched to the pF, he grinds them up like meat. Boozer looked like Bozo the clown when he was switched on Joe on the perimeter. Joe sized him up and drove him inside. As quick as Boozer is for a PF, he's slow to Joe.

Defensively, you got to applaud Woody. He put Joe on Deron and Bibby didn't guard Deron or we played Zone.

The other thing is that Smoove's game also improves in the abs of Marvin. That is harder to understand. But in the small sample, Smoove has more complete games when Marv's not out there.

Over his last 5 games JJ is averaging 15.8 ppg shooting 34%. Is this what you meant when you said JJ elevates his game when Marvin is out?

[jhay610]

Over his last 5 games JJ is averaging 15.8 ppg shooting 34%. Is this what you meant when you said JJ elevates his game when Marvin is out?

Yes, but Exodus, Marvin would not have made any difference. That, plus it's Woody's fault.

:lol6:

[Highpozt2]

No I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that I agree with what Ex was writing and what Diesel was stating. The both had good arguments/opinions. Joe's production has nothing to do with other players, he's shooting well now...and it just so happens Marvin isnt there. Doesn't mean if Marvin was playing, Joe still wouldn't have a hot hand. From a team aspect, however, Marvin's talent is missed. We're a better TEAM with Marvin.

I agree if JJs intensity and shooting percentages are up the Hawks just play better. How to mesh JJ, Marvin and JSmoove is Woodys gameplan. Marvin is a talent we need. Sometimes it works sometimes it looks a mess. If the Hawks play intense defense everything seems to flow better --- the problem is inconsistent intensity.

[Highpozt2]

The other thing is that Smoove's game also improves in the abs of Marvin. That is harder to understand. But in the small sample, Smoove has more complete games when Marv's not out there.

Accurate but as mentioned a small sample and also probably coincidental, however even if Marvin was coming off the bench he will be quite an asset --- as we know in the playoffs lock down defense particularly in the paint forces outside shots --- teams that can punch the mid-range shot (i.e paul pierce) seem to be able to shake the defensive intensity in the playoffs. The Hawks will need solid outside shooting particularly if they face the Sixers with Samuel and Theo constantly rotating to the ball in the paint.